Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves

[Monster]

Ultimately, this deal suggests to me a front office that is tone deaf. There was a strong positive vibe developing around this team as they were building around a young, impressive core that had a surprisingly successful run last season with all the key players coming back, some high-floor draft picks added and the acquisition of Kyle Anderson. And there were undoubtedly more opportunities to further improve the team through far more measured, but effective, deals to acquire a Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Richaun Holmes or perhaps another needle-moving big. A huge part of attracting, energizing and keeping a fan base is the journey -- the upward incremental climb to success. I experienced that growing up in Chicago as MJ, Scottie and Horace Grant developed together and became champions. Warriors fans experienced it with Curry, Green, and Thompson. Spurs fans experienced it with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The list goes on along a similar path unless you live in LA, Miami or New York.

This is the feeling I woke up with this morning, Lip. I'm more positive about the trade generally, but I do feel a loss of connection with the team resulting from the trade. It's weird, most of the players remain the same. But last year's team fought together, overachieved together, and ultimately fell short together -- and we went on that journey with them. Jaden/Jaylen in summer league, Pat Bev's perfect volatility, Malik's struggles in the first half of the season, Ant/KAT/Dlo, Vando coming from nowhere to be the starting power forward. And now much of that "band of brothers" has been replaced.

I'm getting ready to go to summer league this week, and I'm not feeling the connection to the team I felt when I made the arrangements. It's weird. It's a better team now, but it's not "my team" as much. That'll likely change as they start to get on the court together, but it's a weird feeling right now.

Sundog - I think you perfectly captured my feelings at the moment. I'll add that I was also forming a connection to Kessler. I hadn't paid any attention to him before the draft. I just dismissed him as a big, slow white guy. When they drafted him, it forced me to take a deep dive and I was becoming more and more impressed by his potential. His personality was impressive. He seems to have a bit of that "it" factor - swagger of a player who knows he's really good and expects to prove it. His connection to Minnesota through his dad and grandparents added another positive dimension to the story.

John K said the Wolves could have gotten Dejounte Murray but decided to focus on Gobert instead. Jon is obviously right about the Wolves getting Murray if they wanted to given what the Hawks gave up to get him relative to what we gave up for Gobert. The Hawks gave jump 3 future 1st-round picks and a meaningless salary match player, Gallo, to get Murray. The 2023 pick they gave up is top 16 protected and then lottery protected before it becomes two second-round picks. The Wolves could have traded for Murray giving up fewer draft assets than they gave up for Gobert while also keeping Beverley, Beasley, Kessler, and Bolmaro. They'd have a 25-year old PG on a team-friendly contract who is an excellent defender and who averaged nearly a triple double last season. All of that without losing what we lost to get Gobert - including a lost connection to the team.

As I've mentioned before. I'd probably be ok with this deal and the loss of connection if the Wolves were stuck in the mud and obviously going nowhere. But this was a team on the rise with a chemistry among players as well as between team and fans. I share D-Loser's anger towards Connelly for taking the easy path rather than doing what I thought he was brought here to do - i.e., continue building on the solid foundation we already had using his acumen for spotting young talent and building a winning, family-oriented culture. Beverley's obviously surprised reaction to the deal was telling. He said, "it's a business.... He was obvious disappointed after just tweeting his excitement the day before about the signing of Anderson. Connelly's deal for Gobert is anything but culture building. The deal contradicts so much of Connelly's rhetoric - not taking shortcuts, building on what we have, not messing things up, getting to know these guys and what they can do, building a family-oriented culture, etc. The Gobert deal is the ultimate short cut. It's impatient and it's all about business. Connelly's actions don't match his words. As DL noted, the deal actually takes pressure off Connelly to make really smart, shrewd use of the draft and more understated transactions. He's just throwing a bunch of assets and Lore's money at one 30-year old player to win big or go home. If things fall apart, he leaves MN a wealthy guy and heads back to his home in Denver, which he didn't really want to leave in the first place.

Yes, in the end it's about winning. But this was not a move Connelly needed to make to win - a high-risk move that he didn't need to make.

Pat Beverly was awesome but there was a significant chance he was only here for a few more months. Maybe we keep him around for a couple more years but I really doubt it. Personally the only player we traded away that I think hurts the building towards the Future is Vanderbilt and in the back of my mind I've wondered what happens in 2 years when his contract expires. I ant to keep him but will that make sense? How much will he cost? Will Minott make him not really needed?

Lip I'm in the same boat with you as Kessler. It's kinda weird right? Dane Moore tweeted that he was at the baggage claim on a vacation and Kessler was there so he said hi and chatted with him. The thing is I think Gobert has a fun personality too. Maybe not as much as we saw of Kessler but I think he is gonna mesh well with this group. He also meets your often stated desire of a highly competitive guy. Still I think an Edwards and Kessler show would have been highly entertaining gut busting TV!!! Imagine these 2 going out and doing various athletic stiff together. Maybe these 2 guys from Georgia still do that.

I get the idea that people don't think this was some genius move by Connely but it's not exactly the easy way out you describe. You said this puts less pressure on Connelly in some ways yes but in some ways it draws even more on what he is good at bringing in and assessing talent because now he is limited much more than before in terms of picks. What if you got Connelly in a room and he told you he thought Bolmaro was probably just a bench player. What if he also told you how highly he thinks of other young guys on the roster? Shouldn't we trust some of his evaluation of what we have going forward? He hasn't batted a 1.000 but he has a pretty good track record. Heck he drafted 2 of the players we moved in this trade!

I'm addition one of the things a top executive for a sports team needs to do is maximize players and assets. The grumbling about this trade (I wouldn't have done it) is mostly about the assets given up. Meanwhile there are some players that may benefit greatly from this trade and therefore actually increase the value of making the deal. Naz might benefit. Russell might benefit. Many folks on this board have said Towns would be better with a big defensive rebounding center next to him. You can't find a bigger or better player like that than Gobert. He makes the whole team letter defensively and him being a lob threat and awesome screen will be good for any playmaking player handling the ball. I could go through more players one by one and say how this possibly increased their worth on the roster or whether I thought they (as players or as assets) were or weren't maximized but it's too much. I will also add that Connelly in the draft basically added a first to send in this deal in Kessler. Imagine if they had just drafted Kessler at #19 and then did what they did with the rest of the picks and made this trade sends by Kessler out. That would have been tougher to swallow for sure. But Connelly and his front office added value that night. They gave me confidence they can continue to do that maneuvering in the draft in the future.

Also if we are going to talk about all the good vibes from this season you know who was that this last season? Josh Okogie so we should have kept him right? Wait he wasn't worth keeping around because he wasn't good enough and we could probably get a better player? Wait we are jerks right? I get the happy building culture stuff and it's frustrating to go down a path where we gave up a bunch to go a different direction but it's not like we traded for some malcontent or Durant who for sure seems like a complicated dude. We can feel a loss about what was building but also realize that Gobert can be a part of this culture also.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

McHale said you only need a 1st round pick every other year, so...

Watching how we manage future drafts and the salary cap will be a fun exercise. But the team we put on the floor this year could be pretty awesome.

To paraphrase whats-his-face, I prefer POBO's who aren't horrible

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Dont like the trade but this them saying McDaniels and Ant are ready for the next step.

They believe they have 4/5 starters for next 4 years.

What do they do about the PG position now can they even sign Dlo to and extension.

Also the new owners might not give two shits going into the luxury tax

- My feeling is that Minnesota decided to include more draft capital in order to keep Jaden McDaniels out of the package. For instance, if he was included, I'd wager that we'd only be sending two or three first-round picks. Their belief in him is incredibly apparent.

- Yeah, they're locked into this group for the foreseeable future.

- D'Angelo Russell is (and has been) valuable to the Timberwolves, arguably more so now than before. I don't think it's by accident that he wasn't included in this trade. Shot creation matters.

- Tim Connelly is all in. Marc Lore and Alex Rodriguez are all in. The Timberwolves are a championship contender the next couple of years if things strike right. I think they'll be willing to exceed the luxury tax threshold.

Another way to keep McDaniels out of the deal is hang up the phone.
Did the Russian guy take a loss on the Net's resale, and could it happen again?

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

First let me toss some kudos to the naysayers here. Your take (that we got fleeced by Utah) is much more in line with the national media than perhaps the more biased positive take of an excited rube like me. So those like me who love this deal have to acknowledge there is a good chance your opinion will prove to be right.

But if you're in the naysayer group, take the time to answer two questions for me. The homers who love this deal like me are welcome to answer too.

1) What would have been your predicted win total for the Wolves prior to the Gobert deal, and what is it now? (For me, probably 45 before, and 55 after)

2) What percentage chance did you give the Wolves of winning an NBA championship in the next 4 years before the Gobert deal, and what percentage chance do you give it now? (For me, 1% before, 50% now).

I recognize these are difficult questions, because injuries, other deals, salary cap etc. have to be considered. But this is how I evaluate a deal. Does it make us significantly better for the upcoming season, and does it significantly increase our chances of being in the championship conversation in a short period of time. And I give a resounding yes to both questions.

Great questions. I'll ignore door #3 (sign a young Pf like Jalen smith or trade for someone like capela)

If we ran it back as is, I'd say 42 next year, now I'll say 52 (if we can trade Dlo for an upgrade at ball boy or water boy, I'll bump this up to 55) :)

I'd go 10% previously and now I'd say 30%. Problem is I think there were a lot of other cheaper moves that could have got it to 25%

That's not illogical from an owner's perspective. But why does that matter to you so much as a fan? If I were to go tell a bunch of fans that we now have a 30% chance at a title instead of 10% with the possibility of may be getting that up to 25%, what choice do you think most of them make?

I guess it's because I'm a practical person by nature, I manage budgets/financials for a living, and I can't help but take the same view as a fan. I think this trade was grossly irresponsible and it basically confirms what I already suspected... TC is pretty good on drafting, but he's basically an idiot when it comes to trades.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

1st round picks are just to valuable. Especially for small market teams.

It depends where they land. With our current squad the 2023 and 2025 picks will likely be late 20's. It's the 2027 and 2029 which we should be worried about. Cast your memory back when Houston were offering us 4 first round picks for Jimmy Butler and we all thought that wasn't good enough because they would likely fall in late 20's.

At least the 2029 has some protection (knowing our luck we draw 6th pick that year). And at least we didn't give up Jaden.

A few things
1. RG was the 27th pick in the 2013 NBA draft. So, no, it does not depend on where they land, it depends on who is making the call, which I thought was the whole point of hiring Connelly.
2. Not EVERYBODY thought the HOU offer was bad. I actually thought it was awesome and didn't watch a game the rest of the year after Jimmy Bricks was sent to PHI for not-at-all-much
3. "Jaden" was the 28th pick, so again, these picks only matter sometimes?

[Monster]

A lot of good stuff here, several posts with good insight, food for thought, etc. Too many of you to name, but some points off the top of my head:
Finch has done well with 2 bigs before, Gobert is an analytics monster, his small drop in the playoffs is likely largely to do with supporting cast, he is an ELITE defender/rebounder & he fills the teams biggest need, he's 30 but his game isn't dependent on athleticism, huge contract but the cap is expected to jump big time again, trade compensation, keeping Jaden, and much more.

I still believe they very much overpaid (giving up what the Lakers did for Davis & some would argue more) and that opinion is not dependent on the success/failure of the team moving forward. I can say they overpaid while also liking the idea of adding Gobert.

If we have 2 choices, take this deal & win it all or walk away because the cost was too much, I think all of us (including those of us who see this as an objectively bad trade value wise) would say screw it, give me the chip.

I can get behind trading for Gobert, I just hate seeing my mid market/hard to draw in big name free agents, team badly overpay and give up all draft capital flexibility for 8 years. That's it in a nutshell. It's not the who could we have had at those slots, it's what trade flexibility they missing by not keeping '27 and '29.

Lastly, I'm intrigued and excited to see this new starting 5 in action, especially as someone who has BADLY wanted to see KAT next to a legit defensive/rebounding big. Gobert's strengths are most of what the Wolves badly lacked last year so I can understand why the team went so hard to get him. It's just tough to objectively swallow, but I'm trying to focus now on what the team has vs what it does not. It should be an exciting season.

This is a good post.

FWIW regardless they have up A LOT for Gobert I personally think the Lakers gave up much more in terms of value in that deal. Lonzo Ball, Ingram and Hart were a pretty good trio of players still on rookie deals sent to the Pels aside from all the draft picks. The Wolves sent a couple fringe starters and basically 2 guys that were essentially outside the lottery picks in Bolmaro and Kessler. The Wolves didn't send 2 former #2 overall picks in the deal. The Pels got much higher end talent in that deal than anything the Wolves gave up.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Gotta assume DLo is going to be back at this point unless ylthe Wolves want Russell Westbrook instead. No... we couldn't. Could we?

I would do that without hesitation. He or Kyrie

I disagree, RW is a ballstopper, and the DGAF is strong with Kyrie.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

We go from terrible on defense two years ago to now being a legit top 5 defense. This move makes the Wolves a contender.

Whoohooo

Man, you're good at discussing stuff.

[Monster]

1st round picks are just to valuable. Especially for small market teams.

It depends where they land. With our current squad the 2023 and 2025 picks will likely be late 20's. It's the 2027 and 2029 which we should be worried about. Cast your memory back when Houston were offering us 4 first round picks for Jimmy Butler and we all thought that wasn't good enough because they would likely fall in late 20's.

At least the 2029 has some protection (knowing our luck we draw 6th pick that year). And at least we didn't give up Jaden.

A few things
1. RG was the 30th pick in the 2013 NBA draft. So, no, it does not depend on where they land, it depends on who is making the call, which I thought was the whole point of hiring Connelly.
2. Not EVERYBODY thought the HOU offer was bad. I actually thought it was awesome and didn't watch a game the rest of the year after Jimmy Bricks was sent to PHI for not-at-all-much
3. "Jaden" was the 28th pick, so again, these picks only matter sometimes?

Gobert was taken with the 27th pick.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Anybody else enjoying watching videos like this the last couple of days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzfYEFhjuoA

I'm sorry some of you guys don't like this trade. But if you're here, you're a Wolves fan. So as a Wolves fan, don't forget to let yourself get excited for this and enjoy it. This looks like it's going to be really good!