Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves

[Wolvesfan21]

I really think people are underestimating Rudys skill set and impact on winning. The guys a DPOY and an All Star the last few years. The Wolves could have 3 All Stars next year and 3 players in the top 25 of the entire NBA. You've got both the best offensive big (arguable with Jokic sure) and best defensive big in the NBA (no question). Then you have Ant who as a big guard has the highest upside of any young player in the NBA.

You gave up some role players and some likely late round picks to become a NBA title contender. It's a no brainer. How many teams have 3 legit current All Stars on them? (Ant will be one this year you can count on that)

Then look at the analytics. The guy is a monster. 3rd in win shares last season per 48. 1st I believe I heard in eFG against. 1st in Rebound % at 25%, 1st in TS% at 73%, blocks, contested shots. Everything we need. WE COMIN BABY!!!

All I've ever wanted was a shot to win it all ever since KG left. This is the 1st time I've felt we have a chance. You got to embrace the chance to win.

[Coolbreeze44]

Are we going to miss any of the players we gave up? I'm sure some could make a case for a couple, but by and large we aren't going to miss any of those guys. I'll rank the guys in order from most missed to least:

1) Beasley - Streaky shooter with a lot of basketball still left in him
2) Kessler - Just because who knows?
3) Vanderbilt - Gave us hustle and toughness. I'll miss the toughness, the rest of his game and $.25 will get you a bag of chips
4) Patrick Beverly - Nice for one year, but is really a pain in the ass and is getting old.
5) Bolmaro - Not sure he is an NBA player. Best of luck to him.at

So to me it basically comes down to 3 #1 picks that very well could be in the 20-30 range. The 4th is top 5 protected so it doesn't sting as bad. I realize this is really putting an extreme spin on this, but all those players are replaceable. In addition we finally get to cheer for a team who can legitimately contend. I'm not happy about the price but I'm going to get behind this deal. It clears the way for Jaden to start and hopefully continue to develop into the player Finch thinks he can become. We should be a top 10 team in both offense and defense. And I think we will win at least 4, and hopefully 9-16 playoff games next year.

[TAFKASP]

My biggest issue, even more than the number of picks, is Gobert is 30. His game relies upon athleticism, which for a guy his size and age suggests to me that he's not going to be close to the player he is today by year 3. I'll be plenty happy if he is still close to his current level by the end of the contract, I just don't believe it'll happen.

[Q-is-here]

I really think people are underestimating Rudys skill set and impact on winning. The guys a DPOY and an All Star the last few years. The Wolves could have 3 All Stars next year and 3 players in the top 25 of the entire NBA. You've got both the best offensive big (arguable with Jokic sure) and best defensive big in the NBA (no question). Then you have Ant who as a big guard has the highest upside of any young player in the NBA.

You gave up some role players and some likely late round picks to become a NBA title contender. It's a no brainer. How many teams have 3 legit current All Stars on them? (Ant will be one this year you can count on that)

Then look at the analytics. The guy is a monster. 3rd in win shares last season per 48. 1st I believe I heard in eFG against. 1st in Rebound % at 25%, 1st in TS% at 73%, blocks, contested shots. Everything we need. WE COMIN BABY!!!

All I've ever wanted was a shot to win it all ever since KG left. This is the 1st time I've felt we have a chance. You got to embrace the chance to win.

Yeah, I think people don't realize that by most objective measures Gobert affects winning more than KAT does. He is one of the all time great defensive players in NBA history and extremely efficient finisher on offense.

The issue I get hung up on is - gulp - just how much we have invested in two guys that have traditional Center size. That is a shit ton of cap money tied up in two bigs and while KAT is solid-ish guarding in space, I just worry that he and Gobert will struggle on close outs and rotations against a teams like Golden State or Boston that can ping the ball around the perimeter and shoot it.

[Q-is-here]

My biggest issue, even more than the number of picks, is Gobert is 30. His game relies upon athleticism, which for a guy his size and age suggests to me that he's not going to be close to the player he is today by year 3. I'll be plenty happy if he is still close to his current level by the end of the contract, I just don't believe it'll happen.

Really? I think his game relies on his sheer size and instincts. Not sure I'd consider him really reliant on speed, agility, vertical leap, etc. I am somewhat uncomfortable with the length left on his contract. That's where things get a bit eye-watering when combined with KAT's deal and Ant's future deal.

[Monster]

My biggest issue, even more than the number of picks, is Gobert is 30. His game relies upon athleticism, which for a guy his size and age suggests to me that he's not going to be close to the player he is today by year 3. I'll be plenty happy if he is still close to his current level by the end of the contract, I just don't believe it'll happen.

Really? I think his game relies on his sheer size and instincts. Not sure I'd consider him really reliant on speed, agility, vertical leap, etc. I am somewhat uncomfortable with the length left on his contract. That's where things get a bit eye-watering when combined with KAT's deal and Ant's future deal.

For fun I posted a hoops hype article I think in the Kessler thread about some of the slowest agility/speed at the NBA combine of all time. Gobert was #1. Lol I just posted it for fun but yeah. Gobert mostly combines his ridiculous length with like Q said instincts and defensive skill. Could he regress? Yep that's my worry about this trade more than anything but idk if losing a little athletic ability will hurt him that much. I'm more worried about him being a big and staying healthy enough to be on the court.

As for the contract...after this season basically it's 2 more seasons and then he either opts out or is an expiring contract you could do something with. Again I'm not super thrilled either but maybe it's not so terrible.

[Lipoli390]

Ha! I empathize with the feelings you're having, Lip, and I wouldn't have made this trade either. That needs to be very clear and on the record.

While the future salary cap issues are extreme with Rudy Gobert on the payroll, and the war chest of assets is missing a handful of first-round picks, I truly believe that the upcoming season of Timberwolves basketball will be one of the best and most successful in franchise history -- a low bar to exceed, no doubt. The 2022-23 roster looks like the best and most talented that we've seen in a long time, and maybe ever. I can get excited about that even though I'm aware of what was given up.

In terms of value, I think Minnesota gave up too much for Gobert. Four first-round picks plus the rights to 2022 first-rounder, Walker Kessler, and more is a bitter pill to swallow. I mentioned that the quantity of firsts outgoing for Minnesota would likely have been lower had they been willing to include Jaden McDaniels in their package. That has essentially been confirmed by The Athletic. That's a mighty big detail in all of this and it places even more importance on his player development.

However, Gobert is an elite player in the NBA even though he's often cast aside in those conversations. He's undoubtedly a top-20 player in the league and a future Hall of Famer. The annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate (and three-time winner) is a legitimate team-changer, a ceiling-riser. We went from hoping for an average defense last year and being happy with middle of the ranks to now expecting a top-five defense next year. That's the Gobert effect. He just puts a lid on the basket whether he actually blocks shots, alters the attempt, or intimidates shooters from even challenging him. The impact I expect him to have on this team is insane.

Did Minnesota give up way too much? Yes, I believe they did. But if they make a couple of legitimate runs at the conference finals and beyond, will we look back and think fondly of this move? I tend to believe we will, especially because of how little winning we've experienced as fans of this organization. It's an all-in move with an aggressive front office supported by new ownership who appears to be results-driven and invested as fans of the product. They want to win as much as we do. When you take all of that into account I think you can talk yourself into enjoying the next couple of years. They might have to reshuffle some parts later on, but they likely went from a team that had a fifth-seed ceiling to a team that could be playing in the NBA Finals if things go their way. That has to mean something.

Good post, Cam. A thoughtful analysis that accurately captures the upside of this deal. I still dislike the deal, but I'll have to deal with it. :). Fingers crossed that our two bigs and Ant stay healthy. You and I agree that the Wolves gave up too much in this deal. I think we differ a bit on just how much better this deal made the Wolves. I'll have to ponder how much better this team is right now than it would have been with we Beverley, Kessler and Myles Turner, Capela or Richaun Holmes, all of them likely available for Beasley, Naz and maybe one future 1st. The Caesar's oddsmakers increased the Wolves championship odds from 80-1 to 50-1. That's a significant gain, but 50-1 doesn't seem anywhere close to the value the Wolves just gave up for Rudy. And note the beginning odds of 80-1 did not reflect any further acquisitions like Capela or Turner. One thing for sure is that the Wolves have less depth, a much higher risk profile and far less flexibility to adjust and recover from the trials and unforeseeable events that always come along.

I'm with you in questioning whether keeping McDaniels was worth giving up multiple additional picks. I guess we don't know how many additional picks were substituted for McDaniels, but I believe it was more than one of the four. And I'm a big McDaniels fan who's been preaching patience. On the other hand, he hasn't been more than a role player so far and he was the 28th pick in the draft. To keep him, we apparently gave up probably two if not three picks at 28 or better.

My final thought is that there's a rhythm to things and this deal just seems out of rhythm. I guess that's just another riff on my tone deaf theme. There was an edge to this team with Beverley and even Beasley. There was excitement building in the arrival of Kessler and the potential of Bolmaro. We had all our future first-round picks and some additional moves to make that would have been more measured but still exciting. Beverly gave this team a personality that was infectious among teammates. I don't know what our team's personality is now.

And one final question. If the Wolves suddenly decided they wanted to turn around and trade Gobert, is there another team that would give the Wolves anything close to what we just gave Utah? My answer is absolutely not. That in itself is telling.

[kekgeek]

Ha! I empathize with the feelings you're having, Lip, and I wouldn't have made this trade either. That needs to be very clear and on the record.

While the future salary cap issues are extreme with Rudy Gobert on the payroll, and the war chest of assets is missing a handful of first-round picks, I truly believe that the upcoming season of Timberwolves basketball will be one of the best and most successful in franchise history -- a low bar to exceed, no doubt. The 2022-23 roster looks like the best and most talented that we've seen in a long time, and maybe ever. I can get excited about that even though I'm aware of what was given up.

In terms of value, I think Minnesota gave up too much for Gobert. Four first-round picks plus the rights to 2022 first-rounder, Walker Kessler, and more is a bitter pill to swallow. I mentioned that the quantity of firsts outgoing for Minnesota would likely have been lower had they been willing to include Jaden McDaniels in their package. That has essentially been confirmed by The Athletic. That's a mighty big detail in all of this and it places even more importance on his player development.

However, Gobert is an elite player in the NBA even though he's often cast aside in those conversations. He's undoubtedly a top-20 player in the league and a future Hall of Famer. The annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate (and three-time winner) is a legitimate team-changer, a ceiling-riser. We went from hoping for an average defense last year and being happy with middle of the ranks to now expecting a top-five defense next year. That's the Gobert effect. He just puts a lid on the basket whether he actually blocks shots, alters the attempt, or intimidates shooters from even challenging him. The impact I expect him to have on this team is insane.

Did Minnesota give up way too much? Yes, I believe they did. But if they make a couple of legitimate runs at the conference finals and beyond, will we look back and think fondly of this move? I tend to believe we will, especially because of how little winning we've experienced as fans of this organization. It's an all-in move with an aggressive front office supported by new ownership who appears to be results-driven and invested as fans of the product. They want to win as much as we do. When you take all of that into account I think you can talk yourself into enjoying the next couple of years. They might have to reshuffle some parts later on, but they likely went from a team that had a fifth-seed ceiling to a team that could be playing in the NBA Finals if things go their way. That has to mean something.

Good post, Cam. A thoughtful analysis that accurately captures the upside of this deal. I still dislike the deal, but I'll have to deal with it. :). Fingers crossed that our two bigs and Ant stay healthy. You and I agree that the Wolves gave up too much in this deal. I think we differ a bit on just how much better this deal made the Wolves. I'll have to ponder how much better this team is right now than it would have been with we Beverley, Kessler and Myles Turner, Capela or Richaun Holmes, all of them likely available for Beasley, Naz and maybe one future 1st. The Caesar's oddsmakers increased the Wolves championship odds from 80-1 to 50-1. That's a significant gain, but 50-1 doesn't seem anywhere close to the value the Wolves just gave up for Rudy. And note the beginning odds of 80-1 did not reflect any further acquisitions like Capela or Turner. One thing for sure is that the Wolves have less depth, a much higher risk profile and far less flexibility to adjust and recover from the trials and unforeseeable events that always come along.

I'm with you in questioning whether keeping McDaniels was worth giving up multiple additional picks. I guess we don't know how many additional picks were substituted for McDaniels, but I believe it was more than one of the four. And I'm a big McDaniels fan who's been preaching patience. On the other hand, he hasn't been more than a role player so far and he was the 28th pick in the draft. To keep him, we apparently gave up probably two if not three picks at 28 or better.

My final thought is that there's a rhythm to things and this deal just seems out of rhythm. I guess that's just another riff on my tone deaf theme. There was an edge to this team with Beverley and even Beasley. There was excitement building in the arrival of Kessler and the potential of Bolmaro. We had all our future first-round picks and some additional moves to make that would have been more measured but still exciting. Beverly gave this team a personality that was infectious among teammates. I don't know what our team's personality is now.

And one final question. If the Wolves suddenly decided they wanted to turn around and trade Gobert, is there another team that would give the Wolves anything close to what we just gave Utah? My answer is absolutely not. That in itself is telling.

Completely understand your nervousness but you will have fun watching this team. We are going to be damn good. Hopefully we are going to make a deep playoff and we enjoy the moments along the way.

[Lipoli390]

Ha! I empathize with the feelings you're having, Lip, and I wouldn't have made this trade either. That needs to be very clear and on the record.

While the future salary cap issues are extreme with Rudy Gobert on the payroll, and the war chest of assets is missing a handful of first-round picks, I truly believe that the upcoming season of Timberwolves basketball will be one of the best and most successful in franchise history -- a low bar to exceed, no doubt. The 2022-23 roster looks like the best and most talented that we've seen in a long time, and maybe ever. I can get excited about that even though I'm aware of what was given up.

In terms of value, I think Minnesota gave up too much for Gobert. Four first-round picks plus the rights to 2022 first-rounder, Walker Kessler, and more is a bitter pill to swallow. I mentioned that the quantity of firsts outgoing for Minnesota would likely have been lower had they been willing to include Jaden McDaniels in their package. That has essentially been confirmed by The Athletic. That's a mighty big detail in all of this and it places even more importance on his player development.

However, Gobert is an elite player in the NBA even though he's often cast aside in those conversations. He's undoubtedly a top-20 player in the league and a future Hall of Famer. The annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate (and three-time winner) is a legitimate team-changer, a ceiling-riser. We went from hoping for an average defense last year and being happy with middle of the ranks to now expecting a top-five defense next year. That's the Gobert effect. He just puts a lid on the basket whether he actually blocks shots, alters the attempt, or intimidates shooters from even challenging him. The impact I expect him to have on this team is insane.

Did Minnesota give up way too much? Yes, I believe they did. But if they make a couple of legitimate runs at the conference finals and beyond, will we look back and think fondly of this move? I tend to believe we will, especially because of how little winning we've experienced as fans of this organization. It's an all-in move with an aggressive front office supported by new ownership who appears to be results-driven and invested as fans of the product. They want to win as much as we do. When you take all of that into account I think you can talk yourself into enjoying the next couple of years. They might have to reshuffle some parts later on, but they likely went from a team that had a fifth-seed ceiling to a team that could be playing in the NBA Finals if things go their way. That has to mean something.

Good post, Cam. A thoughtful analysis that accurately captures the upside of this deal. I still dislike the deal, but I'll have to deal with it. :). Fingers crossed that our two bigs and Ant stay healthy. You and I agree that the Wolves gave up too much in this deal. I think we differ a bit on just how much better this deal made the Wolves. I'll have to ponder how much better this team is right now than it would have been with we Beverley, Kessler and Myles Turner, Capela or Richaun Holmes, all of them likely available for Beasley, Naz and maybe one future 1st. The Caesar's oddsmakers increased the Wolves championship odds from 80-1 to 50-1. That's a significant gain, but 50-1 doesn't seem anywhere close to the value the Wolves just gave up for Rudy. And note the beginning odds of 80-1 did not reflect any further acquisitions like Capela or Turner. One thing for sure is that the Wolves have less depth, a much higher risk profile and far less flexibility to adjust and recover from the trials and unforeseeable events that always come along.

I'm with you in questioning whether keeping McDaniels was worth giving up multiple additional picks. I guess we don't know how many additional picks were substituted for McDaniels, but I believe it was more than one of the four. And I'm a big McDaniels fan who's been preaching patience. On the other hand, he hasn't been more than a role player so far and he was the 28th pick in the draft. To keep him, we apparently gave up probably two if not three picks at 28 or better.

My final thought is that there's a rhythm to things and this deal just seems out of rhythm. I guess that's just another riff on my tone deaf theme. There was an edge to this team with Beverley and even Beasley. There was excitement building in the arrival of Kessler and the potential of Bolmaro. We had all our future first-round picks and some additional moves to make that would have been more measured but still exciting. Beverly gave this team a personality that was infectious among teammates. I don't know what our team's personality is now.

And one final question. If the Wolves suddenly decided they wanted to turn around and trade Gobert, is there another team that would give the Wolves anything close to what we just gave Utah? My answer is absolutely not. That in itself is telling.

Completely understand your nervousness but you will have fun watching this team. We are going to be damn good. Hopefully we are going to make a deep playoff and we enjoy the moments along the way.

Staying heathy is always key to success in the NBA. It's even more important to the Wolves now than it was before. If they do, then yes this should be a really good team next season.

[worldK]

I don't like the trade for now. i will probably buy in when the season starts and we are shutting teams down and winning games. Just the thought of 4 1st round picks for a 30 yr old center who maybe leaving his prime soon is tough to process at the moment. No doubt we will be a better team next year and a homecourt playoff team, but is this a championship team? We give ourselves a 4 yr window starting now. If we win even just 1 then its a great trade. But if we don't win then its another story. On the bright side, Ant and Kat will still be in their prime 4 years from now so we would still have them.