Detroit is going to get Pist On (Wolves GT)

[kekgeek]

Even sprinkled with some good veteran players, they are a very immature team. They don't place serious emphasis on each possession. And I'm referring to both ends of the floor. Ant picks and chooses when to focus, sometimes he gives great effort and sometimes he doesn't. Finchie enables multiple players to take bad shots early in the shot clock. Nowell knows he might get a stern look but that's about it. DLO is a joke on defense, but he's the only guy who can get us into an offensive set. That is when he feels like it. I have no idea what TC was thinking when he didn't address the PG position in the offseason.

The whole team gives off an air of carelessness and a lack of urgency. And it's our supposed better players who are most guilty of it. Losing to this Pistons team is inexcusable. Blame whoever you like, but I still think the culture is a big problem.

Can't say I disagree with anything you wrote, Cool. I'll just add that culture is ultimately a reflection of the players on the roster, especially those in the rotation. I thought we had a terrific culture last season -- hustle and high effort every game that turned into a record 10 games over .500 and a highly competitive playoff series against the 2nd seed in the West. Same head coach as last season, but the roster is materially different based on off-season moves by our front office. It's a combination of the moves our front office made (the Gobert deal) and the moves they didn't make (failure as you noted to address the PG position). There is simply no getting around the incompetence of this current front office last summer. The net result is a bad team.

Lip the wolves returned 8 of their top 11 rotation players last year. Yes, they won 46 last year being the healthiest team in the NBA last year (wolves also had the exact same record last year as they do not 42 games in) Let's not act like the guys they brought in have been bums either, Gobert and Slow Mo have been really good especially over this month.

Last years team would have been a bottom 3 team in the west if Kat, Prince, Jmac and Slow Mo missed as many games as they have.

Nowell has brought nothing this year what has really hurt the team and the injuries have piled up.

I know we romanticize on that really fun team fully healthy team last year that had no expectations but that team was in the same spot a year ago that this team is now and that team was fully healthy.

Also Vando has one of the worst on/off and net ratings in the nba and the Jazz have been terrible with Vando on the court also Beasley once again has bad net ratings and on/off numbers.

We do miss those guys energy no doubt but let's not act like some of the struggles haven't been because the wolves have missed 4 of their top 8 guys this year for almost 50% of the season. That is too make an excuse because the wolves should be better but to say last years team would be a bottom 7 team in the NBA if we ran it back and had these injuries

[Lipoli390]

Lot of excuses in this thread. Nevermind the fact the pistons don't have cunningham, Stewart and duren. Pathetic performance pathetic team

Well-coached teams don't lose to pathetic opponents as often as we have. Simple as that.

Did Finch forget how to coach between last season and this one? Maybe this roster, collectively, just isn't very good. Fire Finch and hire Snyder. Maybe that will make a difference. Or maybe it won't.

Sure, Chris Finch forgot how to coach. Maybe this roster, collectively, just isn't very good. Respectfully, both seem like oversimplifications of what we're witnessing, though.

MAYBE this roster doesn't suit Chris Finch and what he wants to implement.

MAYBE Chris Finch has been unable and/or unwilling to adapt his system to the personnel he's been given.

MAYBE the players on the roster are unable or unwilling to run the system Chris Finch has implemented.

In any of those conclusions mentioned above, the individual that should first be held responsible is Chris Finch. Either his direction and leadership from a management position has been misguided (ding, ding, ding), or his direction and leadership just isn't being followed -- ie. the team has tuned him out. Either are damning given his current role.

Also, we can appropriately commend Chris Finch for the excellent job he did with last season's team and still acknowledge that he's dropped the ball with this year's team. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Sometimes good coaches fail to adapt. That's what I think has happened here.

Lastly, criticism of Chris Finch does not, nor should not, absolve Tim Connelly of blame. But we should also recognize that it's possible Connelly's vision -- whatever that is -- hasn't been carried out through Finch to this point. I would absolutely suggest that to be true.

All those things could be true. But what could also be true is that no coach would be having more success with this roster than Finch is having. In other words, maybe this roster collectively is a .500 roster. That was my only point.

[Lipoli390]

Even sprinkled with some good veteran players, they are a very immature team. They don't place serious emphasis on each possession. And I'm referring to both ends of the floor. Ant picks and chooses when to focus, sometimes he gives great effort and sometimes he doesn't. Finchie enables multiple players to take bad shots early in the shot clock. Nowell knows he might get a stern look but that's about it. DLO is a joke on defense, but he's the only guy who can get us into an offensive set. That is when he feels like it. I have no idea what TC was thinking when he didn't address the PG position in the offseason.

The whole team gives off an air of carelessness and a lack of urgency. And it's our supposed better players who are most guilty of it. Losing to this Pistons team is inexcusable. Blame whoever you like, but I still think the culture is a big problem.

Can't say I disagree with anything you wrote, Cool. I'll just add that culture is ultimately a reflection of the players on the roster, especially those in the rotation. I thought we had a terrific culture last season -- hustle and high effort every game that turned into a record 10 games over .500 and a highly competitive playoff series against the 2nd seed in the West. Same head coach as last season, but the roster is materially different based on off-season moves by our front office. It's a combination of the moves our front office made (the Gobert deal) and the moves they didn't make (failure as you noted to address the PG position). There is simply no getting around the incompetence of this current front office last summer. The net result is a bad team.

Lip the wolves returned 8 of their top 11 rotation players last year. Yes, they won 46 last year being the healthiest team in the NBA last year (wolves also had the exact same record last year as they do not 42 games in) Let's not act like the guys they brought in have been bums either, Gobert and Slow Mo have been really good especially over this month.

Last years team would have been a bottom 3 team in the west if Kat, Prince, Jmac and Slow Mo missed as many games as they have.

Nowell has brought nothing this year what has really hurt the team and the injuries have piled up.

I know we romanticize on that really fun team fully healthy team last year that had no expectations but that team was in the same spot a year ago that this team is now and that team was fully healthy.

Also Vando has one of the worst on/off and net ratings in the nba and the Jazz have been terrible with Vando on the court also Beasley once again has bad net ratings and on/off numbers.

We do miss those guys energy no doubt but let's not act like some of the struggles haven't been because the wolves have missed 4 of their top 8 guys this year for almost 50% of the season. That is too make an excuse because the wolves should be better but to say last years team would be a bottom 7 team in the NBA if we ran it back and had these injuries

That's all speculation, kek. Fact is, this team was much better last season than it is so far this season. Two-thirds of last season's starting lineup and the team's best three-point shooter off the bench were traded away for Rudy. As it turns out, last season's mix of players worked well for the Wolves while this season's mix has not. We were a .500 team losing to bad teams earlier this season when KAT, Prince and JMac were playing. We were a sub-.500 team when all those guys were out. We're a sub-.500 team losing to bad teams now with KAT out, but Prince back. Our most talented player, Anthony Edwards has played in every game and until recently has been healthy. McDaniels and Gobert have played in the vast majority of games and have been healthy. DLO has been healthy and played in the vast majority of games.

Maybe this team will surge and replicate the strong finish of last season's team. Until we see that happen, tonight's loss to Detroit was just another reminder that this is a bad team and not as good as last season's team. We'll see if things change.

[kekgeek]

Lot of excuses in this thread. Nevermind the fact the pistons don't have cunningham, Stewart and duren. Pathetic performance pathetic team

Well-coached teams don't lose to pathetic opponents as often as we have. Simple as that.

Did Finch forget how to coach between last season and this one? Maybe this roster, collectively, just isn't very good. Fire Finch and hire Snyder. Maybe that will make a difference. Or maybe it won't.

5:56 down 20 to DET, that's brutal. Finch still has Ant in the game after the hip issue, still has TP in after the ankle issue and still has Rudy in after the big elbow. It's a very flawed group, been saying it all year. When will they make some moves cause they need a shake up in the worst kind of way.

Yep, it's a flawed group. That truth couldn't be more obvious. I like the idea of shaking up the roster, but unfortunately don't see how this organization can shake up the roster in a meaningful and potentially positive way this season without trading Edwards, McDaniels or Gobert. No other tradable player on this roster will bring any significant value in return. Trading Edwards would be really dumb. That leaves the other two. I wouldn't trade McDaniels even though I'm disappointed in his progress to date and still troubled by his relatively poor rebounding given his length and athleticism. That leaves Rudy. But I don't see Connelly trading Rudy this season or even next summer.

I've seen this movie before. Wolves ownership makes a dumb front office hiring decision. The front office executive they hire turns out to be incompetent. The incompetent front office executive compounds bad decisions with more bad decisions and fires the head coach to buy time but the team just keeps struggling. The best players on the team become disgruntled and want out. Finally ownership fires the head executives, but then hires another bad one. This is the story of our hapless Wolves franchise. We had a glimmer of hope with Rosas, but his sexual impulses got the best of him before he could finish building what looked like a promising young team. Now we have Tim Connelly who said he wanted to stay out of the way and not screw things up. Then true to his word (NOT), he did anything but stay out of the way and instead screwed things up. So here we are. We're three games under .500. We might finish three games over .500 by the end of the season, but the end result will be another lottery pick for the Utah Jazz.

How about you give Connelly some time. Or he another village idiot like you called Rosas after his 1st year that now you love to praise. How about you give time to Connelly who old team that he built is currently the #1 seed in the NBA.

How about we trust the guy who built a damn good team in Denver.

With all the shit the wolves been through this year, not being able to play with Rudy (numbers trending in the right direction), playing with 2 bigs (had a positive net rating) have 4 of our top 8 guys this miss about 50% of the season so far.

With all that, for all the bitching we have all done. We are 3 games out of hosting a playoff series.

Yes no promises we are great, who knows, I'm frustrated also but let's not act like Connlley is a dumbass and the better the wolves are the more money he makes long term.

[Lipoli390]

Lot of excuses in this thread. Nevermind the fact the pistons don't have cunningham, Stewart and duren. Pathetic performance pathetic team

Well-coached teams don't lose to pathetic opponents as often as we have. Simple as that.

Did Finch forget how to coach between last season and this one? Maybe this roster, collectively, just isn't very good. Fire Finch and hire Snyder. Maybe that will make a difference. Or maybe it won't.

5:56 down 20 to DET, that's brutal. Finch still has Ant in the game after the hip issue, still has TP in after the ankle issue and still has Rudy in after the big elbow. It's a very flawed group, been saying it all year. When will they make some moves cause they need a shake up in the worst kind of way.

Yep, it's a flawed group. That truth couldn't be more obvious. I like the idea of shaking up the roster, but unfortunately don't see how this organization can shake up the roster in a meaningful and potentially positive way this season without trading Edwards, McDaniels or Gobert. No other tradable player on this roster will bring any significant value in return. Trading Edwards would be really dumb. That leaves the other two. I wouldn't trade McDaniels even though I'm disappointed in his progress to date and still troubled by his relatively poor rebounding given his length and athleticism. That leaves Rudy. But I don't see Connelly trading Rudy this season or even next summer.

I've seen this movie before. Wolves ownership makes a dumb front office hiring decision. The front office executive they hire turns out to be incompetent. The incompetent front office executive compounds bad decisions with more bad decisions and fires the head coach to buy time but the team just keeps struggling. The best players on the team become disgruntled and want out. Finally ownership fires the head executives, but then hires another bad one. This is the story of our hapless Wolves franchise. We had a glimmer of hope with Rosas, but his sexual impulses got the best of him before he could finish building what looked like a promising young team. Now we have Tim Connelly who said he wanted to stay out of the way and not screw things up. Then true to his word (NOT), he did anything but stay out of the way and instead screwed things up. So here we are. We're three games under .500. We might finish three games over .500 by the end of the season, but the end result will be another lottery pick for the Utah Jazz.

How about you give Connelly some time. Or he another village idiot like you called Rosas after his 1st year that now you love to praise. How about you give time to Connelly who old team that he built is currently the #1 seed in the NBA.

How about we trust the guy who built a damn good team in Denver.

With all the shit the wolves been through this year, not being able to play with Rudy (numbers trending in the right direction), playing with 2 bigs (had a positive net rating) have 4 of our top 8 guys this miss about 50% of the season so far.

With all that, for all the bitching we have all done. We are 3 games out of hosting a playoff series.

Yes no promises we are great, who knows, I'm frustrated also but let's not act like Connlley is a dumbass and the better the wolves are the more money he makes long term.

I'll just note that I haven't called TC a village idiot yet. I learned my lesson. :). I haven't said Connelly should be fired. My point is that he made a huge mistake last summer that he'll need to fix. He can have all the time he needs to rectify that mistake. Is Connelly a dumbass? Those are your words, not mine. I think he made a dumb mistake last summer.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Lot of excuses in this thread. Nevermind the fact the pistons don't have cunningham, Stewart and duren. Pathetic performance pathetic team

Well-coached teams don't lose to pathetic opponents as often as we have. Simple as that.

Did Finch forget how to coach between last season and this one? Maybe this roster, collectively, just isn't very good. Fire Finch and hire Snyder. Maybe that will make a difference. Or maybe it won't.

Sure, Chris Finch forgot how to coach. Maybe this roster, collectively, just isn't very good. Respectfully, both seem like oversimplifications of what we're witnessing, though.

MAYBE this roster doesn't suit Chris Finch and what he wants to implement.

MAYBE Chris Finch has been unable and/or unwilling to adapt his system to the personnel he's been given.

MAYBE the players on the roster are unable or unwilling to run the system Chris Finch has implemented.

In any of those conclusions mentioned above, the individual that should first be held responsible is Chris Finch. Either his direction and leadership from a management position has been misguided (ding, ding, ding), or his direction and leadership just isn't being followed -- ie. the team has tuned him out. Either are damning given his current role.

Also, we can appropriately commend Chris Finch for the excellent job he did with last season's team and still acknowledge that he's dropped the ball with this year's team. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Sometimes good coaches fail to adapt. That's what I think has happened here.

Lastly, criticism of Chris Finch does not, nor should not, absolve Tim Connelly of blame. But we should also recognize that it's possible Connelly's vision -- whatever that is -- hasn't been carried out through Finch to this point. I would absolutely suggest that to be true.

All those things could be true. But what could also be true is that no coach would be having more success with this roster than Finch is having. In other words, maybe this roster collectively is a .500 roster. That was my only point.

Understood. I would disagree with that, but I get what you're saying.

My opinion is that the way Chris Finch wants this team to play doesn't align with the strengths and weaknesses of the roster, which ultimately makes it a poor fit. I do think a number of other head coaches would have this team playing better basketball to this point -- some of which are still available should Finch surprisingly get axed.

[AbeVigodaLive]

If I've learned anything watching the Timberwolves for the past 33 years... is that a new coach is exactly what will fix a team struggling to play together and admitting that they just aren't playing with enough effort and energy.

Remember, it's always the coach's fault when the players are playing selfishly or lazily. Always.

I just wish the Wolves would have figured out the secret by now and tried different coaches more often over the years.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I get that a HUGE part of being an NBA coach is connecting with the players. But good organizations seem a lot more connected from top to bottom than the Timberwolves.

- New President of Basketball Operations
- Sorta new owners... and sorta old owners (but definitely changes happening)
- New players (including a prized new guy who's drastically forced changes to how the team plays on both sides of the court)
- A coach not hired by the new president nor the new owners... who might not have even been consulted on the massive, possibly unprecedented trade for the prized new guy
- Key players who also might not have been consulted on the massive, possibly unprecedented trade for the prized new guy, but who have to make concessions to ensure it's best for the new guy
- And then add in a bunch of injuries -- including to arguably the team's best player -- and things MIGHT just be a bit unsettled.

Maybe a new coach would solve everything. But from my vantage point, there's a lot more going on than whether the coach is holding this team back or not.

[WildWolf2813]

I think it's pretty worrisome that Nowell is playing this way, yet this team has no confidence that Moore could push Nowell out of the rotation and take his role.

[FNG]

I note all the criticism of Finchie and TC in the GDT. but my sources tell me that neither of them was responsible for SloMo, KAT and JMac being out tonight. The PG position is key to winning consistently in this league, and our two best ones were on the bench last night. Both SloMo and JMac have run the offense well and played good defense when they have been running the point (and not surprisingly both are among our best performers in on/off), but neither has been able to stay healthy this year. So we're forced to watch a team playing shooting guards at the point. Or not watch, as I choose to do after halftime last night.

Nowell has been terrible this season, but the sad fact is that D-Optional Russell is only a slightly better version. Neither can play decent NBA defense, and when they're out there together the result is inevitable...a poor shooting team like the Pistons makes 17 out of 32 3-point shots...53%! And while both are quite good at creating their own shot, neither is particularly interested in doing the things a good PG needs to do to make an offense click. Is anyone really surprised that the Wolves had almost as many turnovers as assists last night with our 2 best PGs out? Blame TC if you want, but it's not his fault our two best PGs can't stay healthy. And blame Finchie if you want, but if pining for more minutes from Wendell Moore is where we are now, it's easy to understand the predicament he is in with our injuries. I'd be giving DLo and Nowell 54 minutes too with the players we have available.

This team is just fine when SloMo plays, and we will be really good when KAT and JMac return. Patience.