Carlos Danger wrote:I will say this much...I like how they are slowly developing useful players. Naz, McLaughlin, Nowell...two undrafted guys and a 2nd round pick are now important rotational guys. It was fun to see Moore Jr. get the start last night and I like how they just sort of give him and Minott small opportunities to start out. Compare that to the days where we pretty much had to start guys like Okogie and Culver. I think it really helps these guys transition if they are not immediately thrown to the Wolves (pun intended). The G League has been great.
FYI - check out these Per 36 numbers. Why are these guys not starting? :-)
I agree that the G-League has been great for helping with the development of young players. But it all starts with the talent and mental make-up of the young players you bring in to your organization. The Wolves organization has been notoriously bad at that over many years all the way through the Thibodeau era. While Rosas messed up with the Culver pick, he was otherwise really successful at finding and signing young talent in in free agency or lower in the draft, including JMac, Naz, Nowell and McDaniels. So far, I'm pleased with the young talent Connelly has brought in - Minott, Moore and Garza.
It's finding them, developing them and all the while having patience with them as they develop. It's understanding that not all players develop at the same pace and that opportunity to play is a key part of development. We all watched Roddy get significant minutes for Memphis last night. There's a reason that Banes has become such a terrific and important player for the Grizzlies. Part of it was his talent, which the Memphis organization impressively recognized with the last pick in the first round. But another big part of it was giving Banes lots of playing time. And they did that in spite of the fact the team was competing for playoff position.
Improvement isn't always linear and we're just 25% into this season. We should probably wait until the end of the season before we determine whether Edwards has improved over last season. So far, he's significantly improved his rebounding and getting to the line.
As for Kobe's "linear improvement," his improved stat line between his second and third season was attributable to his substantial increase in minutes. His scoring per minute actually went down significantly between his 2nd and 3rd seasons. As for context, the most important context is age and years in the League. Yes, their situations are not identical, but the equivalency is obvious. Kobe did not improve any more than Edwards has so far between their respective 2nd and 3rd seasons. And as it turns out, Ant's stats in his 3rd season are nearly identical to Kobe's stats in his 4th season.
None of this tells us what will happen with Edwards. But it should clearly caution against exaggerated concerns about Ant's development or talk about trading him.
Improvement isn't always linear and we're just 25% into this season. We should probably wait until the end of the season before we determine whether Edwards has improved over last season. So far, he's significantly improved his rebounding and getting to the line.
As for Kobe's "linear improvement," his improved stat line between his second and third season was attributable to his substantial increase in minutes. His scoring per minute actually went down significantly between his 2nd and 3rd seasons. As for context, the most important context is age and years in the League. Yes, their situations are not identical, but the equivalency is obvious. Kobe did not improve any more than Edwards has so far between their respective 2nd and 3rd seasons. And as it turns out, Ant's stats in his 3rd season are nearly identical to Kobe's stats in his 4th season.
None of this tells us what will happen with Edwards. But it should clearly caution against exaggerated concerns about Ant's development or talk about trading him.
Lip, I just wanted to clarify something to you (and possibly others). I don't think anyone has "exaggerated concerns" over Ant's development. And I don't think anyone has proposed trading him for just anything we can get. I'll speak for myself now. I did float out the idea in the "Asset Inventory" thread that Ant might be one of our only "big pieces" that we could trade at this year's deadline. We know we can't trade Towns. It's very doubtful they would trade Gobert since they literally just traded all their draft picks for him a few months ago. Nobody else on our roster has any significant trade value. Does that mean I want to trade Ant? No. I stated that in my first post on this matter. But what if Golden State offered us Steph Curry AND Dramond Green for Ant - would that be ok to trade him? How about if they tossed all their unprotected 1st round draft picks for the rest of this century? Would you make that trade? Of course I'm being ridiculous now (on purpose) to illustrate my original point. Everyone should have a price. I'm sure the Jazz are feeling pretty good about their trade right now. I'd love for the Wolves to make trades like that....where another team significantly overpays. Ant could become the next Kobe. Or he might become the next Zach LaVine. Both good players, but not the same value. If someone is willing to pay us Kobe value for him right now - I'd do that deal myself. But I respect that not everyone feels the same way. I just don't want anyone to come away thinking I've proposed giving up on him and trading him away for anything less than a fair return.
Good discourse here concerning Anthony Edwards. I'll chime in that I appreciate both sides here. I strongly believe that every player has a price, no matter how ridiculous that price may be. And if Minnesota made Edwards even remotely available they'd be bombarded with trade offers that go beyond what we're capable of imagining. That's how valuable he is from a trade standpoint as a 21-year old. But I also think the Timberwolves organization owes it to themselves and the fans to see it through with him, no matter how maddening he can be at times. His play ranges anywhere from Dion Waiters to Donovan Mitchell and even to Dwyane Wade level excellence. We got a taste of the latter last night. And it's that higher end of possibilities that the front office has chosen to gamble on him ascending to. Simply, he's not going anywhere. We're going to have to be patient with him -- more so than perhaps any other player in franchise history.
Yeah, Ant is definitely on my do not trade list, but it's also factually true that his 3rd year stats/overall performance is not up to par with where most of today's stars were in their 3rd year.
But....as Lip rightly pointed out, the season is barely a quarter of the way through. Hopefully he raises his game the rest of the way and gets back on track in terms of his growth trajectory. His recent surge in free throw attempts and defensive rebounding is an encouraging sign.
I think everyone agrees that when ANT is motivated, he's one of the best assets in the NBA.
Michael Jordan changed the game more than anyone because his effort and will was so tremendous. Kobe carried that same flag.
ANT can be that kind of player, absolutely. But he can't become that kind of player by thinking he can turn it on and off. I'm guessing most would agree that our frustration with ANT isn't in his progress or skill, it's in the consistency of his effort.
leado01 wrote:I think everyone agrees that when ANT is motivated, he's one of the best assets in the NBA.
Michael Jordan changed the game more than anyone because his effort and will was so tremendous. Kobe carried that same flag.
ANT can be that kind of player, absolutely. But he can't become that kind of player by thinking he can turn it on and off. I'm guessing most would agree that our frustration with ANT isn't in his progress or skill, it's in the consistency of his effort.
Agreed. I think there is also a little bit of pure technical skill he's lacking too, whether it's shooting touch in the mid-range or making the clever pass. For example, I'm not sure I have ever seen him throw a pocket pass. He can improve on those things for sure, but it takes a ton of work and more experience. And they may never come naturally.
leado01 wrote:I think everyone agrees that when ANT is motivated, he's one of the best assets in the NBA.
Michael Jordan changed the game more than anyone because his effort and will was so tremendous. Kobe carried that same flag.
ANT can be that kind of player, absolutely. But he can't become that kind of player by thinking he can turn it on and off. I'm guessing most would agree that our frustration with ANT isn't in his progress or skill, it's in the consistency of his effort.
Agreed. I think there is also a little bit of pure technical skill he's lacking too, whether it's shooting touch in the mid-range or making the clever pass. For example, I'm not sure I have ever seen him throw a pocket pass. He can improve on those things for sure, but it takes a ton of work and more experience. And they may never come naturally.
I saw him throw a pocket pass twice last year for sure. One was a good read and a great pass for an assist. The other one...was a bad turnover where I'm not sure it even touched any player before going out of bounds. Your point still stands! :)
Q what you have been saying about Edwards here and some other threads recently is why I and some others really pushed back against your idea in the offseason of just make Edwards the dominate ball handler and put a guys basically a 3 and D guy next to him. He simply isn't ready for that and like you said here he may never looks really natural at it. I do think he does have a chance to still come a long way in that regard and become a pretty good passer and maybe eventually be a guy that does make quite a few plays for others. I think to some extent it's good he hasn't had to do that a lot yet.
Great discussion! One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the impact of Beverley's absence on Ant's motivation ... I think Pat helped get Ant jacked up last year on those game days that didn't have other external motivations, like national TV or what have you. Now Ant has to learn to do it himself and we're not sure that he can. That'll be the difference between being good and being great for Ant.
Sundog60 wrote:Great discussion! One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the impact of Beverley's absence on Ant's motivation ... I think Pat helped get Ant jacked up last year on those game days that didn't have other external motivations, like national TV or what have you. Now Ant has to learn to do it himself and we're not sure that he can. That'll be the difference between being good and being great for Ant.
A big thing now which I mentioned in another thread. KAT being out now gives Ant even more responsibility to handle the ball, score and assist. Be the top dog, It's up to him to carry much of the load now. Lead the team. He did that last night.
I said go out each night and go 30-10-10. Surely that is more of a pipe dream to have that big a jump in boards and assists. But the potential is there. I don't think 30 points a night now is out of a question though. Missing KAT's points and shots will have to go to others so naturally Ant's points should go up.
