Pels v Wolves

[Q-is-here]

The wonderful thing with stats for online message boards is that there are now so many of them to choose from to support our takes.

Want to find stats that show Gobert is amazing defensively? Boom. Here they are.
Want to find stats that show Gobert is a bad fit and not making much of a difference? Boom. Here they are.

The bottom line for me? The team isn't very good. The Wolves are average or even mediocre. And Gobert has been good at some things, and meh or even terrible at other things. And that makes the Gobert trade look like a ridiculous and embarrassing overpay/decision.

We can rip Gobert. Complain that Russell or Edwards or Towns aren't making him better. Heck, we can rip complementary guys like Nowell or Bryn Forbes.

But the main culprits might not even be on the court. Connelly/ownership took a HUGE swing on a very specific type of player who was even polarizing by many. And he mortgaged the future of the team to do it.

And yet here we're quibbling about which stats are relevant. Meh.

Wins and Losses remain the most important statistic in pro sports. And 16 - 19 is embarrassing for the bill of goods we were sold. Things could change. And the team could improve enough to make the play-in game. Heck, things could get better and the team could even get the #6 seed. Or the #5 seed!!!!!

Meh.

Timberwolves fans are a different lot. We've seen more losing than literally anybody else. We know about patience. We know about frustration. We know about failure. But we haven't experienced any meaningful sort of winning.

So our expectations are low. And that's fortunate for Rudy Gobert, Tim Connelly, the old and current team owners, and everybody else associated with the Timberwolves.

Personally, I'd like to root for a winner... and not continue the long tradition of making excuses... or talking myself into the Promise of Hope (either through young guys or underachieving vets) for a team under .500.

Well, meh to your meh then.

I don't think 16-19 is embarrassing if you consider the context, which included integrating a new player, defensive scheme, and significant injuries to some key guys. It's certainly disappointing and, yes, we are underachieving despite the injuries, but it's not embarrassing. We aren't even halfway through the season yet.

I'm fine with folks who disagreed with the trade and even folks who don't want to watch this team until they prove worthy of their attention. But it's too early to declare a State of Emergency and total embarrassment.

You know who was a total embarrassment just a few months ago? The Brooklyn Nets. Now look at them.

[WildWolf2813]

The wonderful thing with stats for online message boards is that there are now so many of them to choose from to support our takes.

Want to find stats that show Gobert is amazing defensively? Boom. Here they are.
Want to find stats that show Gobert is a bad fit and not making much of a difference? Boom. Here they are.

The bottom line for me? The team isn't very good. The Wolves are average or even mediocre. And Gobert has been good at some things, and meh or even terrible at other things. And that makes the Gobert trade look like a ridiculous and embarrassing overpay/decision.

We can rip Gobert. Complain that Russell or Edwards or Towns aren't making him better. Heck, we can rip complementary guys like Nowell or Bryn Forbes.

But the main culprits might not even be on the court. Connelly/ownership took a HUGE swing on a very specific type of player who was even polarizing by many. And he mortgaged the future of the team to do it.

And yet here we're quibbling about which stats are relevant. Meh.

Wins and Losses remain the most important statistic in pro sports. And 16 - 19 is embarrassing for the bill of goods we were sold. Things could change. And the team could improve enough to make the play-in game. Heck, things could get better and the team could even get the #6 seed. Or the #5 seed!!!!!

Meh.

Timberwolves fans are a different lot. We've seen more losing than literally anybody else. We know about patience. We know about frustration. We know about failure. But we haven't experienced any meaningful sort of winning.

So our expectations are low. And that's fortunate for Rudy Gobert, Tim Connelly, the old and current team owners, and everybody else associated with the Timberwolves.

Personally, I'd like to root for a winner... and not continue the long tradition of making excuses... or talking myself into the Promise of Hope (either through young guys or underachieving vets) for a team under .500.

Well, meh to your meh then.

I don't think 16-19 is embarrassing if you consider the context, which included integrating a new player, defensive scheme, and significant injuries to some key guys. It's certainly disappointing and, yes, we are underachieving despite the injuries, but it's not embarrassing. We aren't even halfway through the season yet.

I'm fine with folks who disagreed with the trade and even folks who don't want to watch this team until they prove worthy of their attention. But it's too early to declare a State of Emergency and total embarrassment.

You know who was a total embarrassment just a few months ago? The Brooklyn Nets. Now look at them.

They're riding a 10 game winning streak.

As I said before, we don't have the benefit of the doubt to be trusted to have that sort of streak.

[Lipoli390]

The wonderful thing with stats for online message boards is that there are now so many of them to choose from to support our takes.

Want to find stats that show Gobert is amazing defensively? Boom. Here they are.
Want to find stats that show Gobert is a bad fit and not making much of a difference? Boom. Here they are.

The bottom line for me? The team isn't very good. The Wolves are average or even mediocre. And Gobert has been good at some things, and meh or even terrible at other things. And that makes the Gobert trade look like a ridiculous and embarrassing overpay/decision.

We can rip Gobert. Complain that Russell or Edwards or Towns aren't making him better. Heck, we can rip complementary guys like Nowell or Bryn Forbes.

But the main culprits might not even be on the court. Connelly/ownership took a HUGE swing on a very specific type of player who was even polarizing by many. And he mortgaged the future of the team to do it.

And yet here we're quibbling about which stats are relevant. Meh.

Wins and Losses remain the most important statistic in pro sports. And 16 - 19 is embarrassing for the bill of goods we were sold. Things could change. And the team could improve enough to make the play-in game. Heck, things could get better and the team could even get the #6 seed. Or the #5 seed!!!!!

Meh.

Timberwolves fans are a different lot. We've seen more losing than literally anybody else. We know about patience. We know about frustration. We know about failure. But we haven't experienced any meaningful sort of winning.

So our expectations are low. And that's fortunate for Rudy Gobert, Tim Connelly, the old and current team owners, and everybody else associated with the Timberwolves.

Personally, I'd like to root for a winner... and not continue the long tradition of making excuses... or talking myself into the Promise of Hope (either through young guys or underachieving vets) for a team under .500.

Well, meh to your meh then.

I don't think 16-19 is embarrassing if you consider the context, which included integrating a new player, defensive scheme, and significant injuries to some key guys. It's certainly disappointing and, yes, we are underachieving despite the injuries, but it's not embarrassing. We aren't even halfway through the season yet.

I'm fine with folks who disagreed with the trade and even folks who don't want to watch this team until they prove worthy of their attention. But it's too early to declare a State of Emergency and total embarrassment.

You know who was a total embarrassment just a few months ago? The Brooklyn Nets. Now look at them.

A few months ago would take us back to October. It's OK to be an embarrassment after 10-15 games. But if you're still an embarrassment after 35 games, that's a problem. More importantly, Abe's point was that the Wolves are an embarrassment relative to the bill of goods we were sold about the off-season deal for Rudy. I don't think the Nets entered this season with lofty expectations. Harden was gone, Kyrie remained mercurial, Simmons was coming off back surgery after already looking like he had lost interest in basketball. Meanwhile, the Nets were shopping both Durant and Kyrie in the off-season but couldn't get the return they wanted. It was a team in disarray entering this season and their early stumbles were in line with where the team left off last season.

[Q-is-here]

The wonderful thing with stats for online message boards is that there are now so many of them to choose from to support our takes.

Want to find stats that show Gobert is amazing defensively? Boom. Here they are.
Want to find stats that show Gobert is a bad fit and not making much of a difference? Boom. Here they are.

The bottom line for me? The team isn't very good. The Wolves are average or even mediocre. And Gobert has been good at some things, and meh or even terrible at other things. And that makes the Gobert trade look like a ridiculous and embarrassing overpay/decision.

We can rip Gobert. Complain that Russell or Edwards or Towns aren't making him better. Heck, we can rip complementary guys like Nowell or Bryn Forbes.

But the main culprits might not even be on the court. Connelly/ownership took a HUGE swing on a very specific type of player who was even polarizing by many. And he mortgaged the future of the team to do it.

And yet here we're quibbling about which stats are relevant. Meh.

Wins and Losses remain the most important statistic in pro sports. And 16 - 19 is embarrassing for the bill of goods we were sold. Things could change. And the team could improve enough to make the play-in game. Heck, things could get better and the team could even get the #6 seed. Or the #5 seed!!!!!

Meh.

Timberwolves fans are a different lot. We've seen more losing than literally anybody else. We know about patience. We know about frustration. We know about failure. But we haven't experienced any meaningful sort of winning.

So our expectations are low. And that's fortunate for Rudy Gobert, Tim Connelly, the old and current team owners, and everybody else associated with the Timberwolves.

Personally, I'd like to root for a winner... and not continue the long tradition of making excuses... or talking myself into the Promise of Hope (either through young guys or underachieving vets) for a team under .500.

Well, meh to your meh then.

I don't think 16-19 is embarrassing if you consider the context, which included integrating a new player, defensive scheme, and significant injuries to some key guys. It's certainly disappointing and, yes, we are underachieving despite the injuries, but it's not embarrassing. We aren't even halfway through the season yet.

I'm fine with folks who disagreed with the trade and even folks who don't want to watch this team until they prove worthy of their attention. But it's too early to declare a State of Emergency and total embarrassment.

You know who was a total embarrassment just a few months ago? The Brooklyn Nets. Now look at them.

They're riding a 10 game winning streak.

As I said before, we don't have the benefit of the doubt to be trusted to have that sort of streak.

And Brooklyn did have the benefit of the doubt? You are closer to that franchise than I am, but you can't possibly tell me that Brooklyn fans were hopeful this offseason and giving them the benefit of the doubt - and even as recently as a few weeks ago!

I do think they have higher end talent than we do with Durant and Irving, so at full strength I don't quite put us in the same category as their team at full strength. But it's amazing how a team can be staring into the abyss just a few months ago and now are a legit contender.

And we can also look back at Boston last season, who at the halfway point were 1 game below .500, then proceeded to make a run to the Finals.

I'm not banking on a turnaround like Brooklyn or Boston where we are literally contending. I didn't think that would be the case even if everything worked out this season. I was hoping we'd snag a top 4 or 5 seed and then win one playoff series. That would have been a very successful season to me.

Here is my point....we may be staring into the abyss right now. But on paper, there is absolutely no reason this team can't win a lot of games IF we can get healthy. It's on Finch and his staff to figure this out.

[Q-is-here]

The wonderful thing with stats for online message boards is that there are now so many of them to choose from to support our takes.

Want to find stats that show Gobert is amazing defensively? Boom. Here they are.
Want to find stats that show Gobert is a bad fit and not making much of a difference? Boom. Here they are.

The bottom line for me? The team isn't very good. The Wolves are average or even mediocre. And Gobert has been good at some things, and meh or even terrible at other things. And that makes the Gobert trade look like a ridiculous and embarrassing overpay/decision.

We can rip Gobert. Complain that Russell or Edwards or Towns aren't making him better. Heck, we can rip complementary guys like Nowell or Bryn Forbes.

But the main culprits might not even be on the court. Connelly/ownership took a HUGE swing on a very specific type of player who was even polarizing by many. And he mortgaged the future of the team to do it.

And yet here we're quibbling about which stats are relevant. Meh.

Wins and Losses remain the most important statistic in pro sports. And 16 - 19 is embarrassing for the bill of goods we were sold. Things could change. And the team could improve enough to make the play-in game. Heck, things could get better and the team could even get the #6 seed. Or the #5 seed!!!!!

Meh.

Timberwolves fans are a different lot. We've seen more losing than literally anybody else. We know about patience. We know about frustration. We know about failure. But we haven't experienced any meaningful sort of winning.

So our expectations are low. And that's fortunate for Rudy Gobert, Tim Connelly, the old and current team owners, and everybody else associated with the Timberwolves.

Personally, I'd like to root for a winner... and not continue the long tradition of making excuses... or talking myself into the Promise of Hope (either through young guys or underachieving vets) for a team under .500.

Well, meh to your meh then.

I don't think 16-19 is embarrassing if you consider the context, which included integrating a new player, defensive scheme, and significant injuries to some key guys. It's certainly disappointing and, yes, we are underachieving despite the injuries, but it's not embarrassing. We aren't even halfway through the season yet.

I'm fine with folks who disagreed with the trade and even folks who don't want to watch this team until they prove worthy of their attention. But it's too early to declare a State of Emergency and total embarrassment.

You know who was a total embarrassment just a few months ago? The Brooklyn Nets. Now look at them.

A few months ago would take us back to October. It's OK to be an embarrassment after 10-15 games. But if you're still an embarrassment after 35 games, that's a problem. More importantly, Abe's point was that the Wolves are an embarrassment relative to the bill of goods we were sold about the off-season deal for Rudy. I don't think the Nets entered this season with lofty expectations. Harden was gone, Kyrie remained mercurial, Simmons was coming off back surgery after already looking like he had lost interest in basketball. Meanwhile, the Nets were shopping both Durant and Kyrie in the off-season but couldn't get the return they wanted. It was a team in disarray entering this season and their early stumbles were in line with where the team left off last season.

But we are literally missing arguably our best player for the last 15 games!

I agree we are underachieving, even with the injuries. We should be closer to .500 or a game or two above. An embarrassment would be the Lakers, who have three future HoFers on the payroll each making more than $37M per year. Oh, they also have Patrick Beverley, who has been TERRIBLE this year.

My point with the Brooklyn and Boston examples is that things can turn around, despite whatever circumstances exist in the present state.

[Sundog]

I'm with Q on this. The folks who hated the trade still hate the trade. Ok. But we haven't seen key players on the floor together (KAT, Rudy, Ant, Jaden, Prince, JMac) for any significant playing time to come to the conclusion that this mix of players doesn't work.

[Q-is-here]

I'm with Q on this. The folks who hated the trade still hate the trade. Ok. But we haven't seen key players on the floor together (KAT, Rudy, Ant, Jaden, Prince, JMac) for any significant playing time to come to the conclusion that this mix of players doesn't work.

The injury stuff is starting to get frustrating. I mean, there is is KAT of course. But then we have two other really key bench pieces that are seemingly out indefinitely in Prince and Little JMac. I think that's starting to catch up to us, as we see Matt Ryan and Bryn Forbes brick shot after shot and we're forced to give Nowell minutes even when he's struggling without any real good alternatives.