Pels v Wolves

[Q-is-here]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

[FNG]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

[Q-is-here]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

Gobert was good, not great, in this game. We need him to be great more often than not. But there is no question he makes a huge difference on defense.

One other note on Gobert that perhaps makes things a little less bad for the detractors of the deal that brought him to Minnesota. His salary, on a relative basis, will continue to go down versus other recently signed players and the salary cap as a whole. He is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA right now, but the 15th highest in terms of what's guaranteed on his remaining years. That is only going to go down as time goes on.

So I think it's fair to say he's overpaid versus the impact he's had on our team SO FAR, but I believe that we get a much better ROI in year 2, 3, and 4 of his time with the Wolves (assuming he isn't traded).

[AbeVigodaLive]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

Gobert was good, not great, in this game. We need him to be great more often than not. But there is no question he makes a huge difference on defense.

One other note on Gobert that perhaps makes things a little less bad for the detractors of the deal that brought him to Minnesota. His salary, on a relative basis, will continue to go down versus other recently signed players and the salary cap as a whole. He is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA right now, but the 15th highest in terms of what's guaranteed on his remaining years. That is only going to go down as time goes on.

So I think it's fair to say he's overpaid versus the impact he's had on our team SO FAR, but I believe that we get a much better ROI in year 2, 3, and 4 of his time with the Wolves (assuming he isn't traded).

Yes. Wolves brass definitely considered the ramifications of the impending new TV deal and new contracts when making the trade.

What seems like a massive crazy contract today will seem relatively tame moving forward with contracts continuing to inch closer to $100M annually.

It's all fake money at this point if we start comparing these salaries to real people in the real world.

[Lipoli390]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

Gobert was good, not great, in this game. We need him to be great more often than not. But there is no question he makes a huge difference on defense.

One other note on Gobert that perhaps makes things a little less bad for the detractors of the deal that brought him to Minnesota. His salary, on a relative basis, will continue to go down versus other recently signed players and the salary cap as a whole. He is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA right now, but the 15th highest in terms of what's guaranteed on his remaining years. That is only going to go down as time goes on.

So I think it's fair to say he's overpaid versus the impact he's had on our team SO FAR, but I believe that we get a much better ROI in year 2, 3, and 4 of his time with the Wolves (assuming he isn't traded).

Rudy makes a huge difference on defense? The team is no better defensively so far this season than they were last season. They're no better on the boards either. And of course, the team is FAR worse offensively than last season. It's not Rudy, it's the deal for Rudy - outgoing versus incoming - that matters. And the net result of that deal is a team that is far worse offensively and no better either defensively or on the boards. As for this season in isolation, the team is better defensively when Rudy's on the court than when he's not. But the offense is far worse when it's on the court and the sum total is a team that has a better winning percentage this season when Rudy's not playing. I'm open to the notion that this team might get hot when KAT returns and climb into the top 5 by the end of the season with Rudy, KAT, Edwards and the rest of the bunch clicking. But this team has been bad with Rudy for over a third of the season so far and there is absolutely no evidence this season that the team will ultimately end up better than last season.

[kekgeek]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

Gobert was good, not great, in this game. We need him to be great more often than not. But there is no question he makes a huge difference on defense.

One other note on Gobert that perhaps makes things a little less bad for the detractors of the deal that brought him to Minnesota. His salary, on a relative basis, will continue to go down versus other recently signed players and the salary cap as a whole. He is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA right now, but the 15th highest in terms of what's guaranteed on his remaining years. That is only going to go down as time goes on.

So I think it's fair to say he's overpaid versus the impact he's had on our team SO FAR, but I believe that we get a much better ROI in year 2, 3, and 4 of his time with the Wolves (assuming he isn't traded).

Rudy makes a huge difference on defense? The team is no better defensively so far this season than they were last season. They're no better on the boards either. And of course, the team is FAR worse offensively than last season. It's not Rudy, it's the deal for Rudy - outgoing versus incoming - that matters. And the net result of that deal is a team that is far worse offensively and no better either defensively or on the boards. As for this season in isolation, the team is better defensively when Rudy's on the court than when he's not. But the offense is far worse when it's on the court and the sum total is a team that has a better winning percentage this season when Rudy's not playing. I'm open to the notion that this team might get hot when KAT returns and climb into the top 5 by the end of the season with Rudy, KAT, Edwards and the rest of the bunch clicking. But this team has been bad with Rudy for over a third of the season so far and there is absolutely no evidence this season that the team will ultimately end up better than last season.

Lip this is just factually incorrect. Rudy has been one of the most impactiful players in the NBA when it comes to a teams defense this year. The wolves are 6.1 pts per 100 possessions better on defense when Rudy is on the court than off the court (90th percentile in the NBA). With Rudy on the floor the Wolves are equivalent to the 6th best defensive team in the NBA and when he is off the floor the Wolves are equivalent to the 28th best defensive team in the NBA. Rudy's impact on defense is the difference from one of the best defensive teams in the NBA to the 3rd worst defense team in the NBA. The Rudy lineups are better defensively by almost a whole point better than last years team.

For refence Rudy lineups this year are 6th in the NBA in defense and last years club finished 13th in defense and last years team defensivly started to flounder on defense after the new year being a whole 2.8 pts worse defensivly compared to current Rudy lineups (Obviously I am making assumptions but the Wolves defensively started to really regress in 2022, they were fantastic in 2021 and some could say some smoke and mirrors.)

Wolves are also in the 85th % in defending the rim when rudy is on the floor, compared to last years team in the 44th percntile. Overall defensive eFG% for the wolves this year when Rudy is on the floor is in the 69th percentile and last years team was in the 46th percentile, the Wolves are slightly better at defending the 3 this year with rudy on the floor than the Wolves were last year.

Wolves are 82nd percentile when it comes to half court defense when Rudy is on the floor and 33rd percentile in half court defense when Rudy is off the court. The Wolves are in the 40th percentile defensive rebounding when Rudy is on the floor (Not great) but it drops to the 19th percentile when Rudy is off the court. (The Wolves rebound the same amount of % with Rudy on the floor compared to last years team, makes me think it is more of a wing/guard issue than a Center issue)

Once again I understand that you hated the trade, what I get, but to say that Rudy has not made a difference when it comes to defense is strongly incorrect. The Wolves are statistically an elite top 6 defensive team in the NBA when Rudy is on the floor and bottom 3 when he is off the floor.

Now the Wolves have been bad on offense with Rudy on the floor and that is 100% a fair critisim, I will not argue with you much there. Now the Jazz consistently had a top offense around Rudy. They were a top 3 team in PnR frequency in every year in Rudy career. Wolves are currently 23rd in PnR frequency (I have not listened to it yet but my buddy said on Dane podcast they talked about Finch likes to give his players freedom on offesne and they are speculating Dlo does not like running PnR, once again I have not listened yet so I don't want to create any conclusions.) To Abe point though should the Wolves players who were an elite offense last year switch how they play offense to fit Rudy. I don't have the answer to that.

Once again at the moment it looks like an overpay for the Wolves and like I have said I am taking a mini step back from this board but I will argue with not correct data saying Rudy has not made a difference when it comes to defense because when he is on the floor the Wolves are a damn good defensive team.

[Sundog]

Great post, kek.

[Lipoli390]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

Gobert was good, not great, in this game. We need him to be great more often than not. But there is no question he makes a huge difference on defense.

One other note on Gobert that perhaps makes things a little less bad for the detractors of the deal that brought him to Minnesota. His salary, on a relative basis, will continue to go down versus other recently signed players and the salary cap as a whole. He is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA right now, but the 15th highest in terms of what's guaranteed on his remaining years. That is only going to go down as time goes on.

So I think it's fair to say he's overpaid versus the impact he's had on our team SO FAR, but I believe that we get a much better ROI in year 2, 3, and 4 of his time with the Wolves (assuming he isn't traded).

Rudy makes a huge difference on defense? The team is no better defensively so far this season than they were last season. They're no better on the boards either. And of course, the team is FAR worse offensively than last season. It's not Rudy, it's the deal for Rudy - outgoing versus incoming - that matters. And the net result of that deal is a team that is far worse offensively and no better either defensively or on the boards. As for this season in isolation, the team is better defensively when Rudy's on the court than when he's not. But the offense is far worse when it's on the court and the sum total is a team that has a better winning percentage this season when Rudy's not playing. I'm open to the notion that this team might get hot when KAT returns and climb into the top 5 by the end of the season with Rudy, KAT, Edwards and the rest of the bunch clicking. But this team has been bad with Rudy for over a third of the season so far and there is absolutely no evidence this season that the team will ultimately end up better than last season.

Lip this is just factually incorrect. Rudy has been one of the most impactiful players in the NBA when it comes to a teams defense this year. The wolves are 6.1 pts per 100 possessions better on defense when Rudy is on the court than off the court (90th percentile in the NBA). With Rudy on the floor the Wolves are equivalent to the 6th best defensive team in the NBA and when he is off the floor the Wolves are equivalent to the 28th best defensive team in the NBA. Rudy's impact on defense is the difference from one of the best defensive teams in the NBA to the 3rd worst defense team in the NBA. The Rudy lineups are better defensively by almost a whole point better than last years team.

For refence Rudy lineups this year are 6th in the NBA in defense and last years club finished 13th in defense and last years team defensivly started to flounder on defense after the new year being a whole 2.8 pts worse defensivly compared to current Rudy lineups (Obviously I am making assumptions but the Wolves defensively started to really regress in 2022, they were fantastic in 2021 and some could say some smoke and mirrors.)

Wolves are also in the 85th % in defending the rim when rudy is on the floor, compared to last years team in the 44th percntile. Overall defensive eFG% for the wolves this year when Rudy is on the floor is in the 69th percentile and last years team was in the 46th percentile, the Wolves are slightly better at defending the 3 this year with rudy on the floor than the Wolves were last year.

Wolves are 82nd percentile when it comes to half court defense when Rudy is on the floor and 33rd percentile in half court defense when Rudy is off the court. The Wolves are in the 40th percentile defensive rebounding when Rudy is on the floor (Not great) but it drops to the 19th percentile when Rudy is off the court. (The Wolves rebound the same amount of % with Rudy on the floor compared to last years team, makes me think it is more of a wing/guard issue than a Center issue)

Once again I understand that you hated the trade, what I get, but to say that Rudy has not made a difference when it comes to defense is strongly incorrect. The Wolves are statistically an elite top 6 defensive team in the NBA when Rudy is on the floor and bottom 3 when he is off the floor.

Now the Wolves have been bad on offense with Rudy on the floor and that is 100% a fair critisim, I will not argue with you much there. Now the Jazz consistently had a top offense around Rudy. They were a top 3 team in PnR frequency in every year in Rudy career. Wolves are currently 23rd in PnR frequency (I have not listened to it yet but my buddy said on Dane podcast they talked about Finch likes to give his players freedom on offesne and they are speculating Dlo does not like running PnR, once again I have not listened yet so I don't want to create any conclusions.) To Abe point though should the Wolves players who were an elite offense last year switch how they play offense to fit Rudy. I don't have the answer to that.

Once again at the moment it looks like an overpay for the Wolves and like I have said I am taking a mini step back from this board but I will argue with not correct data saying Rudy has not made a difference when it comes to defense because when he is on the floor the Wolves are a damn good defensive team.

Not sure what was factually incorrect in my post. I acknowledged that the team is better defensively this season when Rudy's on the court. That's not surprising since he's a max player known for his defensive prowess. But through more than 40% of our games this season, we're no better defensively than last season as a team and Rudy has played in the vast majority of those games. That's what matters. As I've said, it's not Rudy on the court versus Rudy off the court; it's the impact of the Gobert deal in its entirety on the team. The net impact of that deal so far is that we've been far worse offensively, no better defensively and no better on the boards. More importantly, we've gone from 10 games over .500 to 3 games under .500.

Yes, we've missed KAT who has played in only 21 of the Wolves 35 games. But the Memphis Grizzlies are 8 games over .500 with Jaren Jackson playing in only 17 games and Desmond Bane playing on only 15. The Clippers are 5 games over .500 even though Kawhi has played in only 14 games and Paul George in 26. The Pelicans are 10 games over .500 with Brandon Ingram playing in only15 games. Michael Porter Jr. has played in only 20 games for Denver and Damian Lillard in only 22 games for Portland, yet Denver is 10 games over .500 while Portland is 4 games over the mark. The Sixers have struggled with Harden playing in only 19 games, Tyrese Maxey in only 15 and Embiid in 25 games. The contrast, the Wolves have had their most talented player, Edwards, for all 35 games, McDaniels for 32 games, Russell for 33 games and Gobert for 30 games. Something is obviously wrong with this Wolves team through 40% of its games and it's obvious they're not nearly as good after they Gobert deal as they were before it.

I get the kernel of hope one can find in Gobert's on-off defensive impact and in what the Jazz did when Rudy was there with very different personnel. As John Lennon said in his only #1 hit from his solo career: "Whatever gets you through the night." :) Seriously, small statistical kernels of hope are still relevant now after 35 games. This team is bound to improve when KAT returns. Edwards has been playing at an all-star level the past dozen games. McDaniels has clearly improved over last season. But the relevance of those select kernels of hope fade with each loss. If this team is still hovering around .500 after the team's 65th game, then references to Gobert's on-off defensive impact will ring embarrassingly hollow.

[FNG]

Nowell gets ripped here a lot, but I have seen a significant change in his defense in the last couple games. He doesn't take plays off on defense, and seems to be kind of getting the concept of team defense...he had some really nice closeouts tonight. I'm guessing Finchie sees it too, because he gave him 25 minutes tonight. We need games like this from Nowell.

The first half was terrible though. He allowed Jose Alvarado to beat him on a backdoor cut and then got burned again the next time down. And he missed his only two shots. The second half was a different story.

His defensive lapses are tolerable if he's making shots and creating easy buckets for others, like he did in the 2nd half. But too often this season he's doing neither.

Thx for that, Q...I only watched the second half so that explains why Nowell was getting savaged in the GDT. I was pleasantly surprised with his hustle and close outs in the second half though, and he also was effective on offense.

I did have the radio on during the first half, and Horton threw out a stat that explains the effectiveness of gobert on defense. Late in the second quarter, the Pels were only 7 for 14 inside three feet...the Wolves were 15 for 16! Yes, rim protection is an important thing, and it goes far beyond blocked shots.

Gobert was good, not great, in this game. We need him to be great more often than not. But there is no question he makes a huge difference on defense.

One other note on Gobert that perhaps makes things a little less bad for the detractors of the deal that brought him to Minnesota. His salary, on a relative basis, will continue to go down versus other recently signed players and the salary cap as a whole. He is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA right now, but the 15th highest in terms of what's guaranteed on his remaining years. That is only going to go down as time goes on.

So I think it's fair to say he's overpaid versus the impact he's had on our team SO FAR, but I believe that we get a much better ROI in year 2, 3, and 4 of his time with the Wolves (assuming he isn't traded).

Rudy makes a huge difference on defense? The team is no better defensively so far this season than they were last season. They're no better on the boards either. And of course, the team is FAR worse offensively than last season. It's not Rudy, it's the deal for Rudy - outgoing versus incoming - that matters. And the net result of that deal is a team that is far worse offensively and no better either defensively or on the boards. As for this season in isolation, the team is better defensively when Rudy's on the court than when he's not. But the offense is far worse when it's on the court and the sum total is a team that has a better winning percentage this season when Rudy's not playing. I'm open to the notion that this team might get hot when KAT returns and climb into the top 5 by the end of the season with Rudy, KAT, Edwards and the rest of the bunch clicking. But this team has been bad with Rudy for over a third of the season so far and there is absolutely no evidence this season that the team will ultimately end up better than last season.

Lip this is just factually incorrect. Rudy has been one of the most impactiful players in the NBA when it comes to a teams defense this year. The wolves are 6.1 pts per 100 possessions better on defense when Rudy is on the court than off the court (90th percentile in the NBA). With Rudy on the floor the Wolves are equivalent to the 6th best defensive team in the NBA and when he is off the floor the Wolves are equivalent to the 28th best defensive team in the NBA. Rudy's impact on defense is the difference from one of the best defensive teams in the NBA to the 3rd worst defense team in the NBA. The Rudy lineups are better defensively by almost a whole point better than last years team.

For refence Rudy lineups this year are 6th in the NBA in defense and last years club finished 13th in defense and last years team defensivly started to flounder on defense after the new year being a whole 2.8 pts worse defensivly compared to current Rudy lineups (Obviously I am making assumptions but the Wolves defensively started to really regress in 2022, they were fantastic in 2021 and some could say some smoke and mirrors.)

Wolves are also in the 85th % in defending the rim when rudy is on the floor, compared to last years team in the 44th percntile. Overall defensive eFG% for the wolves this year when Rudy is on the floor is in the 69th percentile and last years team was in the 46th percentile, the Wolves are slightly better at defending the 3 this year with rudy on the floor than the Wolves were last year.

Wolves are 82nd percentile when it comes to half court defense when Rudy is on the floor and 33rd percentile in half court defense when Rudy is off the court. The Wolves are in the 40th percentile defensive rebounding when Rudy is on the floor (Not great) but it drops to the 19th percentile when Rudy is off the court. (The Wolves rebound the same amount of % with Rudy on the floor compared to last years team, makes me think it is more of a wing/guard issue than a Center issue)

Once again I understand that you hated the trade, what I get, but to say that Rudy has not made a difference when it comes to defense is strongly incorrect. The Wolves are statistically an elite top 6 defensive team in the NBA when Rudy is on the floor and bottom 3 when he is off the floor.

Now the Wolves have been bad on offense with Rudy on the floor and that is 100% a fair critisim, I will not argue with you much there. Now the Jazz consistently had a top offense around Rudy. They were a top 3 team in PnR frequency in every year in Rudy career. Wolves are currently 23rd in PnR frequency (I have not listened to it yet but my buddy said on Dane podcast they talked about Finch likes to give his players freedom on offesne and they are speculating Dlo does not like running PnR, once again I have not listened yet so I don't want to create any conclusions.) To Abe point though should the Wolves players who were an elite offense last year switch how they play offense to fit Rudy. I don't have the answer to that.

Once again at the moment it looks like an overpay for the Wolves and like I have said I am taking a mini step back from this board but I will argue with not correct data saying Rudy has not made a difference when it comes to defense because when he is on the floor the Wolves are a damn good defensive team.

Not sure what was factually incorrect in my post. I acknowledged that the team is better defensively this season when Rudy's on the court. That's not surprising since he's a max player known for his defensive prowess. But through more than 40% of our games this season, we're no better defensively than last season as a team and Rudy has played in the vast majority of those games. That's what matters. As I've said, it's not Rudy on the court versus Rudy off the court; it's the impact of the Gobert deal in its entirety on the team. The net impact of that deal so far is that we've been far worse offensively, no better defensively and no better on the boards. More importantly, we've gone from 10 games over .500 to 3 games under .500.

Yes, we've missed KAT who has played in only 21 of the Wolves 35 games. But the Memphis Grizzlies are 8 games over .500 with Jaren Jackson playing in only 17 games and Desmond Bane playing on only 15. The Clippers are 5 games over .500 even though Kawhi has played in only 14 games and Paul George in 26. The Pelicans are 10 games over .500 with Brandon Ingram playing in only15 games. Michael Porter Jr. has played in only 20 games for Denver and Damian Lillard in only 22 games for Portland, yet Denver is 10 games over .500 while Portland is 4 games over the mark. The Sixers have struggled with Harden playing in only 19 games, Tyrese Maxey in only 15 and Embiid in 25 games. The contrast, the Wolves have had their most talented player, Edwards, for all 35 games, McDaniels for 32 games, Russell for 33 games and Gobert for 30 games. Something is obviously wrong with this Wolves team through 40% of its games and it's obvious they're not nearly as good after they Gobert deal as they were before it.

I get the kernel of hope one can find in Gobert's on-off defensive impact and in what the Jazz did when Rudy was there with very different personnel. As John Lennon said in his only #1 hit from his solo career: "Whatever gets you through the night." :) Seriously, small statistical kernels of hope are still relevant now after 35 games. This team is bound to improve when KAT returns. Edwards has been playing at an all-star level the past dozen games. McDaniels has clearly improved over last season. But the relevance of those select kernels of hope fade with each loss. If this team is still hovering around .500 after the team's 65th game, then references to Gobert's on-off defensive impact will ring embarrassingly hollow.

Lip, I think everyone here agrees with you that the first 35 games of this season have been a disappointment. And I think most would agree that despite his superb screening, our offense has not performed well with Rudy on the court. But I think you're pinning the blame for this season on the wrong guy of our three max players. Rudy has done just what we expected from him on defense...with opponents scoring 6.1 fewer points per 100 when he is on the court. However KAT and DLo have not lived up to anything close to max standards at either end of the court. I don't think anyone expected either of these guys to be good contributors on defense...that's why we got Rudy, and he has lived up to his defensive billing as Kek so eloquently demonstrated statistically. But neither KAT nor DLo have helped us enough on offense...the facet of the game that earned them their max contracts. Our offense is for all intents and purposes the same whether they are on the court or not (+1.1 for DLo and 0.0 for KAT). Yes, we want Rudy to perform on the offensive side of the ball like he did in Utah, but if DLo and KAT continue to be meh players on offense (while being the below average defenders we know they are), our hopes of a playoff run are diminished.

Maybe my glasses are too rose-colored, but I see KAT returning to his elite 3-point shooting form, and DLo performing better on offense in more of a SG role. We'll have to see if my optimism is warranted.

And finally, Lennon's #1 hit sucked...

[AbeVigodaLive]

The wonderful thing with stats for online message boards is that there are now so many of them to choose from to support our takes.

Want to find stats that show Gobert is amazing defensively? Boom. Here they are.
Want to find stats that show Gobert is a bad fit and not making much of a difference? Boom. Here they are.

The bottom line for me? The team isn't very good. The Wolves are average or even mediocre. And Gobert has been good at some things, and meh or even terrible at other things. And that makes the Gobert trade look like a ridiculous and embarrassing overpay/decision.

We can rip Gobert. Complain that Russell or Edwards or Towns aren't making him better. Heck, we can rip complementary guys like Nowell or Bryn Forbes.

But the main culprits might not even be on the court. Connelly/ownership took a HUGE swing on a very specific type of player who was even polarizing by many. And he mortgaged the future of the team to do it.

And yet here we're quibbling about which stats are relevant. Meh.

Wins and Losses remain the most important statistic in pro sports. And 16 - 19 is embarrassing for the bill of goods we were sold. Things could change. And the team could improve enough to make the play-in game. Heck, things could get better and the team could even get the #6 seed. Or the #5 seed!!!!!

Meh.

Timberwolves fans are a different lot. We've seen more losing than literally anybody else. We know about patience. We know about frustration. We know about failure. But we haven't experienced any meaningful sort of winning.

So our expectations are low. And that's fortunate for Rudy Gobert, Tim Connelly, the old and current team owners, and everybody else associated with the Timberwolves.

Personally, I'd like to root for a winner... and not continue the long tradition of making excuses... or talking myself into the Promise of Hope (either through young guys or underachieving vets) for a team under .500.