Let’s Make a Deal — NBA Trade Edition

[KiwiMatt]

Looks like the Wolves are still interested in acquiring Marcus Smart, but it sounds like the Celtics expect Beasley plus Jaden McDaniels OR a 1st round pick. Hell no. I would be hesitant to even trade Malik Beasley for him straight up.

Sounds like an insurance policy just in case they can't come to terms with Pat Bev on contract extension.

[FNG]

There's such a huge difference between "no stock"... "too much stock" and a reasonable amount of stock along with a bunch of other factors... when discussing players and impact.

I agree, Abe, and I think we all have our stats that best help us define a player's value. My categories are:

Little stock: 1) small sample sizes
2) raw per game stats like points and assists, unless supported by more reliable stats

Medium stock: Defensive measures. I value defense, but basketball savants still haven't come up with a reliable defensive stat. I will say though that DLo's obvious improvement on the defensive side of the ball is also supported by many defensive metrics.

Much stock: 1) Career stats
2) TS%
3) Assist to turnover ratio
4) Net rating
5) On/off
6) Eye test...I'm pretty confident I can tell a valuable player from one who is not

My prejudices come from many years of watching the NBA, but was solidified by the poster child for why raw stats are not as important to me as the ones I value... Ricky Davis. Davis was a terrific raw stats guy throughout his career...heck, he averaged a nice 19.1/4.8/4.6 his first year with us. But he measured very poorly overall in his career in the four measures that matter most to me. And I think most would agree that Ricky Davis was not a positive basketball player, despite his good raw per game stats. And unfortunately until this year, our own DLo and Wig measured very poorly in net rating and shooting efficiency, but both are resurgent this year.

I'm sure there are others here who value raw stats more than the measures I prefer and that's great...makes for some interesting discussions. It wouldn't be much fun if we all agreed on everything!

[Coolbreeze44]

Looks like the Wolves are still interested in acquiring Marcus Smart, but it sounds like the Celtics expect Beasley plus Jaden McDaniels OR a 1st round pick. Hell no. I would be hesitant to even trade Malik Beasley for him straight up.

Sounds like an insurance policy just in case they can't come to terms with Pat Bev on contract extension.

That's a ridiculous ask

[KiwiMatt]

Looks like the Wolves are still interested in acquiring Marcus Smart, but it sounds like the Celtics expect Beasley plus Jaden McDaniels OR a 1st round pick. Hell no. I would be hesitant to even trade Malik Beasley for him straight up.

Sounds like an insurance policy just in case they can't come to terms with Pat Bev on contract extension.

That's a ridiculous ask

I agree. I could see something like the following:

Wolves receive: Marcus Smart, Josh Richardson and Aaron Nesmith
Celtics receive: Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Leandro Bolmaro and 2nd Round Pick (2022).

Even then I'd be reluctant. Maybe take Nesmith and Bolmaro out of the deal (prefer keep Bolmaro).

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm kind of liking Prince now too, dude has been playing lights out recently. I saw Rubio was traded this morning. Rosas I think did pretty well last offseason!

I would give up Bease straight up for Smart. Maybe throw in a 2nd rounder. That would be it. Smart is a good player, but he is offensive weakness is similar to Bease on defense. I don't see him as that much of an upgrade really.

[Tactical unit]

If you really deep dive on this current roster construction of the Wolves you realize it's rather complete the way it is.

Going from Beasley to E. Gordon maybe something to think about not sure how much better E. Gordon is at defense but he's probably more consistent shooter. Kinda like this idea, Gordon costs more money though so maybe not.

Moving Okogie for any 2nd and opening a roster spot to sign a vet that gets cut or G. Monroe type if he doesn't latch on in MIL is a move I really want to see happen. Okogie is highly blocked on this team and doesn't do much for me maybe a fresh start and new coaches can unlock his jump shot like Wiggins in GSW.

Layman for anything is a done deal, he's blocked and I'd rather have the roster spot.

Bolmaro can be included in any larger deal though I could see him developing if we make a splash play at a center or something I am ok with losing him.

PG I am more than good with DLO, Bev & the underrated J-Mac. I like the idea of a strong Center backup being added as KAT can get into foul trouble and Naz Ried while good and contract wise very valuable. That position could be improved upon. Again What's the price to acquire a Nurkic, Turner, Sabonis? This is one area I may spend.

SG you could go get a better 2nd unit player than Beasley, come playoff time how many minutes do you want a young A. Edwards on the bench? I really don't know how much a back up SG over the likes of Beasley and Nowell matters as they are skilled themselves. I can tell you I wouldn't be using future assets to address what likely doesn't impact the bottom line all that much.

Prince is a high level shooter at backup SF so who are you brining in that is way better than him? Harrison Barnes? Not worth the cost for marginal improvement IMO.

Simmons deal? He's a way better version of V8 but contract wise is way worse. Basically you need him to develop a shot otherwise how much better than V8 is he based on the difference in price? What's to say in a few years he doesn't want out of MN and now you have part two of a Simmons hold out / 2nd round of drama and his value is even lower. I will say his elite defense does make me want him but the price is why it is likely a no go.

Smart asking price is way to high they need to cut it.

Grant & Simmons defense make nice targets but the cost likely to high to sacrifice future assets. I'm not moving McDaniels if developed properly he is the exact player you want on this team.

What you don't want to do is lose long term assets (draft picks) that could facilitate trades or the ability to draft young players on cheap contracts. Also how do you improve this roster significantly?

Sometimes the best thing to do is evaluate current talent in a playoff run and figure out what's needed for the next step.

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

I agree with you both here. I'd be good with dlo coming back for something like 4/70, but honestly he's just not as important as the other 4. How much do we really lose right now when Nowell has to cover his minutes? I'd argue very little. Don't get me wrong, he's having a good year and we would miss his play making a bit, but he's the easiest to replace, especially at his expected cost.

Alright, I'll bite. What makes you think the bolded text is anywhere close to being true? I'm willing to hear the argument if you'll provide it. Respectfully.

I just don't understand how we're this far into the season and still have fans undervaluing the impact D-Lo has as a scorer, facilitator, and defender (yes) in Minnesota's backcourt. The team is vastly different with and without him.

I don't understand your issue with my statement. He's a solid starter on a decent team. That's what a solid starter on a decent team makes. The future of this team is kat and ant. We have to spend wisely after those two max guys. Again, he's had a good year, but he's not a star, like you seem to believe. Two things... often times when he's out I find myself thinking I'd be good if he just didn't come back... also, I always laugh when the announcers say he's such a clutch player... maybe if he was a little better regular player he wouldn't have to be so clutch. Yep, I think he's a replacement level starter... aka a league average starter. Yep, I think he's a replacement level starter... aka a league average starter. He's going to delusionally ask for 30M/year. let's see if we're dumb enough to give it to him

You offer no data here to back up your claims. What is your evidence of him being a replacement level starter? How does the team actually do when he is not in the lineup versus how you think and feel like? These are things you can go lookup hard data on.

I gotta give you credit. You are right on brand here!

I'll double down on this with Q. Where's your Data at? I been on the trading Naz train but I have no data to back it up. It's all eye test for me because I don't really understand the stats and I'm trying to learn more about them. But if someone on here gave me a bunch of data on why Naz is good fit for this team I would probably change my mind.

Countless times people have given stats on how DLO is a new player and is playing to his potential now. The team is in its best position in 15-20 years.

Also it's Pretty hard to take you seriously when you appeared out of nowhere and you made your ID on here D-Loser.

I've been reading this board regularly since it was on espn, so I guess I didn't show up out of nowhere. Also... don't care about data... I get more than enough data at work. I watch every game and trust the eye test. If you're a data guy, I'm happy for you. He's an average starter (meaning he's our 3rd best starter) on an average team (us exactly)... what's the issue?

[Jester1534]

I agree with you both here. I'd be good with dlo coming back for something like 4/70, but honestly he's just not as important as the other 4. How much do we really lose right now when Nowell has to cover his minutes? I'd argue very little. Don't get me wrong, he's having a good year and we would miss his play making a bit, but he's the easiest to replace, especially at his expected cost.

Alright, I'll bite. What makes you think the bolded text is anywhere close to being true? I'm willing to hear the argument if you'll provide it. Respectfully.

I just don't understand how we're this far into the season and still have fans undervaluing the impact D-Lo has as a scorer, facilitator, and defender (yes) in Minnesota's backcourt. The team is vastly different with and without him.

I don't understand your issue with my statement. He's a solid starter on a decent team. That's what a solid starter on a decent team makes. The future of this team is kat and ant. We have to spend wisely after those two max guys. Again, he's had a good year, but he's not a star, like you seem to believe. Two things... often times when he's out I find myself thinking I'd be good if he just didn't come back... also, I always laugh when the announcers say he's such a clutch player... maybe if he was a little better regular player he wouldn't have to be so clutch. Yep, I think he's a replacement level starter... aka a league average starter. Yep, I think he's a replacement level starter... aka a league average starter. He's going to delusionally ask for 30M/year. let's see if we're dumb enough to give it to him

You offer no data here to back up your claims. What is your evidence of him being a replacement level starter? How does the team actually do when he is not in the lineup versus how you think and feel like? These are things you can go lookup hard data on.

I gotta give you credit. You are right on brand here!

I'll double down on this with Q. Where's your Data at? I been on the trading Naz train but I have no data to back it up. It's all eye test for me because I don't really understand the stats and I'm trying to learn more about them. But if someone on here gave me a bunch of data on why Naz is good fit for this team I would probably change my mind.

Countless times people have given stats on how DLO is a new player and is playing to his potential now. The team is in its best position in 15-20 years.

Also it's Pretty hard to take you seriously when you appeared out of nowhere and you made your ID on here D-Loser.

I've been reading this board regularly since it was on espn, so I guess I didn't show up out of nowhere. Also... don't care about data... I get more than enough data at work. I watch every game and trust the eye test. If you're a data guy, I'm happy for you. He's an average starter (meaning he's our 3rd best starter) on an average team (us exactly)... what's the issue?

Well as I told the umpire who tossed me out when I was 17 for squeezing the strike zone on me all game long.

Make sure you put my name on referral when you go get LASIK so I can get the free $100 bucks.

[Tactical unit]

Cliff notes on my post: Okogie for a 2nd to open a roster spot for vet buyouts type of player and Layman for nothing to open a roster spot is what I see us doing. One spot to actually increase chances of winning IMO is at center.

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

I agree with you both here. I'd be good with dlo coming back for something like 4/70, but honestly he's just not as important as the other 4. How much do we really lose right now when Nowell has to cover his minutes? I'd argue very little. Don't get me wrong, he's having a good year and we would miss his play making a bit, but he's the easiest to replace, especially at his expected cost.

Alright, I'll bite. What makes you think the bolded text is anywhere close to being true? I'm willing to hear the argument if you'll provide it. Respectfully.

I just don't understand how we're this far into the season and still have fans undervaluing the impact D-Lo has as a scorer, facilitator, and defender (yes) in Minnesota's backcourt. The team is vastly different with and without him.

I don't understand your issue with my statement. He's a solid starter on a decent team. That's what a solid starter on a decent team makes. The future of this team is kat and ant. We have to spend wisely after those two max guys. Again, he's had a good year, but he's not a star, like you seem to believe. Two things... often times when he's out I find myself thinking I'd be good if he just didn't come back... also, I always laugh when the announcers say he's such a clutch player... maybe if he was a little better regular player he wouldn't have to be so clutch. Yep, I think he's a replacement level starter... aka a league average starter. Yep, I think he's a replacement level starter... aka a league average starter. He's going to delusionally ask for 30M/year. let's see if we're dumb enough to give it to him

You offer no data here to back up your claims. What is your evidence of him being a replacement level starter? How does the team actually do when he is not in the lineup versus how you think and feel like? These are things you can go lookup hard data on.

I gotta give you credit. You are right on brand here!

I'll double down on this with Q. Where's your Data at? I been on the trading Naz train but I have no data to back it up. It's all eye test for me because I don't really understand the stats and I'm trying to learn more about them. But if someone on here gave me a bunch of data on why Naz is good fit for this team I would probably change my mind.

Countless times people have given stats on how DLO is a new player and is playing to his potential now. The team is in its best position in 15-20 years.

Also it's Pretty hard to take you seriously when you appeared out of nowhere and you made your ID on here D-Loser.

I've been reading this board regularly since it was on espn, so I guess I didn't show up out of nowhere. Also... don't care about data... I get more than enough data at work. I watch every game and trust the eye test. If you're a data guy, I'm happy for you. He's an average starter (meaning he's our 3rd best starter) on an average team (us exactly)... what's the issue?

Well as I told the umpire who tossed me out when I was 17 for squeezing the strike zone on me all game long.

Make sure you put my name on referral when you go get LASIK so I can get the free $100 bucks.

Stick to baseball chump. I think you're mad because I called you one of the two worst posters on this forum (again, I've been reading it along time!)

I see just fine. I actually like dlo, but I like him at 4/70 on his next contract.