Who should Wolves draft at 19?

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Liddell has some notable weaknesses compared to successful NBA players with his length deficiencies.

1. His greatest statistical strength at the college level is shot-blocking, but that's the least translatable to the NBA, especially for a player of his size. Those blocks he got against college players using his leaping ability and timing, won't materialize against the longer, stronger, faster players he's up against in the NBA.

2. While his wingspan is comparable to successful NBA players of similar height, his standing reach is significantly shorter. Liddell's standing reach is 6'7. That's 2" less than Draymond's 8'9 reach, 2.5" less than Millsap's 8'9.5 and 4" less than Al Horford's 8'11. Wingspan matters for a big, but I think overhead reach matters even more. Brandon Clarke has a similarly short standing reach and he's been successful. But Liddell's standing reach is another issue he'll have to overcome to succeed in the NBA.

3. His rebounding stats pale in comparison to the rebounding stats of comparably sized bigs who have succeeded in the NBA. Liddell averaged 7.9 rebounds in 33.2 minutes per game. In contrast Green averaged 10.6 in the same number of minutes while Al Horford averaged 9.5 in 27.8 minutes. MIllsap averaged 13.3 rebounds in 34.5 minutes while Brandon Clarke averaged 8.6 in 28 minutes. PJ Tucker averaged 9.5 in 34.5 minutes.

4. Liddell is a poor ball-handler and poor finisher. If you watch video draft analysis of Liddell's game, you can see just how bad he is in these areas. As a result, his offense is largely limited to perimeter shots, off-ball cuts and post-ups. He has no dribble drive whatsoever and has trouble finishing when he does get to the rim. As a contrast, read draft reviews of PJ Tucker, who was lauded for his ability to take the ball to the hold and finish. That means he'll need to prove that his 3-point shooting is for real and can reliably extend out to NBA three-point range if he's going to be a two-way player. Otherwise, he's largely just a post-up scorer in the NBA and that's problematic for a vertically challenged big. To be fair, Draymond Green's ability to score at the rim was also questioned coming out of college. And like Green, Liddell is an excellent passer. However, Green averaged 10.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists and 1.5 steals in his last college season. He averaged 4.1 assists and 1.8 steals as a Junior.

All this isn't to say that I don't like Liddell as a prospect or that the Wolves shouldn't draft him at #19. It's just a caution against taking him with players like Horford, Millsap, Tucker or Green in mind. I love Liddell's toughness and high basketball IQ. He's a very good defender, and and excellent passer. He also shows signs of potential as a good NBA three-point shooter. Ultimately, I see him as a solid 3&D player if he can knock down three-pointers consistently from behind the NBA arc. But for a Wolves team that needs rebounding, I'm not sure he's the right pick. I'd lean towards wings like Moore and Terry who can handle the ball, score going to the hole, guard multiple positions, and in Moore's case, knock down perimeter shots. I love Moore's strength and skill level. And I love Terry's overall length and upside. I'd take either one over Liddell at #19.

[Monster]

Just finished watching the Duke Gonzaga game from early in the season. It was a fan game with a number of players that the Wolves could select and a couple top guys they won't have a chance at. I think Wendell moore could be that do shit perimeter pseudo star in the mold of Jrue, Smart and maybe Derrick White. I also think there is a path of him being a solid piece on a good or contending team as a complimentary player. I also think there is some upside there is a guy that has a little more juice offensively than he gets credit for. When he gets switched on to bigs they don't seems to be able to take advantage of the mismatch. Timme didn't do anything when he got switched onto Moore. I could see Moore being a guy that cab play as a pseudo PG next to Edwards. What a backcourt duo that COULD be defensively.

The Wolves already have a glut of perimeter players already and Moore theoretically should be able to play some minutes right away or that's a reasonable expectation. Liddell is a more proven player at a spot with a more immediate need and is reasonable to expect he may be to play some minutes right away too. I just really like what I have seen out of Moore and a few pathways I see that he can become a worthwhile player and good selection.

Nembhard would be a nice pick later in the draft though. He had some turnovers in this game but he also had a boatload of assists and made some timely plays.

Is there any high level shooters in this draft we should be looking at?

[Lipoli390]

Just finished watching the Duke Gonzaga game from early in the season. It was a fan game with a number of players that the Wolves could select and a couple top guys they won't have a chance at. I think Wendell moore could be that do shit perimeter pseudo star in the mold of Jrue, Smart and maybe Derrick White. I also think there is a path of him being a solid piece on a good or contending team as a complimentary player. I also think there is some upside there is a guy that has a little more juice offensively than he gets credit for. When he gets switched on to bigs they don't seems to be able to take advantage of the mismatch. Timme didn't do anything when he got switched onto Moore. I could see Moore being a guy that cab play as a pseudo PG next to Edwards. What a backcourt duo that COULD be defensively.

The Wolves already have a glut of perimeter players already and Moore theoretically should be able to play some minutes right away or that's a reasonable expectation. Liddell is a more proven player at a spot with a more immediate need and is reasonable to expect he may be to play some minutes right away too. I just really like what I have seen out of Moore and a few pathways I see that he can become a worthwhile player and good selection.

Nembhard would be a nice pick later in the draft though. He had some turnovers in this game but he also had a boatload of assists and made some timely plays.

Is there any high level shooters in this draft we should be looking at?

I'm with you on Moore, Monster. The more I see of him the more I like him. I'd actually list Moore in response to your question about whether there are any high level shooters in the draft. Moore hit 50% of his field goal attempts and 41.3% of his three-point attempts last season. Although the 41.3% was on a fairly limited volume of 3.2, it's still revealing. I agree that Liddell would fill a position of need for the Wolves more than Moore would. But I don't agree that Liddell is a more proven player. Both had breakout Junior seasons and they were both comparably impressive statistically, albeit in different statistical areas.

[Monster]

Monster - Liddell has some notable weaknesses compared to successful NBA players with his length deficiencies.

1. His greatest statistical strength at the college level is shot-blocking, but that's the least translatable to the NBA, especially for a player of his size. Those blocks he got against college players using his leaping ability and timing, won't materialize against the longer, stronger, faster players he's up against in the NBA.

2. While his wingspan is comparable to successful NBA players of similar height, his standing reach is significantly shorter. Liddell's standing reach is 6'7. That's 2" less than Draymond's 8'9 reach, 2.5" less than Millsap's 8'9.5 and 4" less than Al Horford's 8'11. Wingspan matters for a big, but I think overhead reach matters even more. Brandon Clarke has a similarly short standing reach and he's been successful. But Liddell's standing reach is another issue he'll have to overcome to succeed in the NBA.

3. His rebounding stats pale in comparison to the rebounding stats of comparably sized bigs who have succeeded in the NBA. Liddell averaged 7.9 rebounds in 33.2 minutes per game. In contrast Green averaged 10.6 in the same number of minutes while Al Horford averaged 9.5 in 27.8 minutes. MIllsap averaged 13.3 rebounds in 34.5 minutes while Brandon Clarke averaged 8.6 in 28 minutes. PJ Tucker averaged 9.5 in 34.5 minutes.

4. Liddell is a poor ball-handler and poor finisher. If you watch video draft analysis of Liddell's game, you can see just how bad he is in these areas. As a result, his offense is largely limited to perimeter shots, off-ball cuts and post-ups. He has no dribble drive whatsoever and has trouble finishing when he does get to the rim. As a contrast, read draft reviews of PJ Tucker, who was lauded for his ability to take the ball to the hold and finish. That means he'll need to prove that his 3-point shooting is for real and can reliably extend out to NBA three-point range if he's going to be a two-way player. Otherwise, he's largely just a post-up scorer in the NBA and that's problematic for a vertically challenged big. To be fair, Draymond Green's ability to score at the rim was also questioned coming out of college. And like Green, Liddell is an excellent passer. However, Green averaged 10.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists and 1.5 steals in his last college season. He averaged 4.1 assists and 1.8 steals as a Junior.

All this isn't to say that I don't like Liddell as a prospect or that the Wolves shouldn't draft him at #19. It's just a caution against taking him with players like Horford, Millsap, Tucker or Green in mind. I love Liddell's toughness and high basketball IQ. He's a very good defender, and and excellent passer. He also shows signs of potential as a good NBA three-point shooter. Ultimately, I see him as a solid 3&D player if he can knock down three-pointers consistently from behind the NBA arc. But for a Wolves team that needs rebounding, I'm not sure he's the right pick. I'd lean towards wings like Moore and Terry who can handle the ball, score going to the hole, guard multiple positions, and in Moore's case, knock down perimeter shots. I love Moore's strength and skill level. And I love Terry's overall length and upside. I'd take either one over Liddell at #19.

These are all good points however what Liddell has done in college that some of those other players you mentioned is 3 point shooting. Let's remove Draymond green because he did shoot the 3 in college is longer and and we aren't hoping for Liddell to be a HOF level player right? Now if you want to make the argument you aren't sure about his 3 point shooting at the next level I would like to hear more about that.

Rebounding...yes that's why I included the article comparing him to Grant Williams and I also included guys like Thad Young and Jared Dudley. He also has what looks like a really strong base which the Wolves just need a guy like that and ai think it's going to help him just like some of the other guys on the list.

[Monster]

Just finished watching the Duke Gonzaga game from early in the season. It was a fan game with a number of players that the Wolves could select and a couple top guys they won't have a chance at. I think Wendell moore could be that do shit perimeter pseudo star in the mold of Jrue, Smart and maybe Derrick White. I also think there is a path of him being a solid piece on a good or contending team as a complimentary player. I also think there is some upside there is a guy that has a little more juice offensively than he gets credit for. When he gets switched on to bigs they don't seems to be able to take advantage of the mismatch. Timme didn't do anything when he got switched onto Moore. I could see Moore being a guy that cab play as a pseudo PG next to Edwards. What a backcourt duo that COULD be defensively.

The Wolves already have a glut of perimeter players already and Moore theoretically should be able to play some minutes right away or that's a reasonable expectation. Liddell is a more proven player at a spot with a more immediate need and is reasonable to expect he may be to play some minutes right away too. I just really like what I have seen out of Moore and a few pathways I see that he can become a worthwhile player and good selection.

Nembhard would be a nice pick later in the draft though. He had some turnovers in this game but he also had a boatload of assists and made some timely plays.

Is there any high level shooters in this draft we should be looking at?

I'm with you on Moore, Monster. The more I see of him the more I like him. I'd actually list Moore in response to your question about whether there are any high level shooters in the draft. Moore hit 50% of his field goal attempts and 41.3% of his three-point attempts last season. Although the 41.3% was on a fairly limited volume of 3.2, it's still revealing. I agree that Liddell would fill a position of need for the Wolves more than Moore would. But I don't agree that Liddell is a more proven player. Both had breakout Junior seasons and they were both comparably impressive statistically, albeit in different statistical areas.

Lip I can't say Moore is a proven 3 point shooter but he is a good FT shooter over 80% all 3 college seasons. Before this year he shot 30% his sophomore season and 21% his freshman year. His sophomore season he under 10ppg on poor efficiency He played the 3rd most minutes on a pretty meh Duke team. In some ways Moore kinda came out of nowhere.

Meanwhile Liddell was putting up a pretty good sophomore season as one of the top players on a good Ohio state team.

The question is who is going to be the best player at the next level. I see the path/s for Moore at the next level but I also just can't say it's for sure going to happen since like I said he did really come into what he was this season. He is still a fairly young player as a young Junior.

Ultimately I just want the best player possible and I still have some more guys to look at.

[Monster]

One additional thing when it comes to Moore and Liddell it seems like both guys can add something that this board has been talking about toughness.

I'll also add that while the Wolves don't have their PF spot nailed down going forward they are a little over 12 months away from potentially 3 of their top guards and Nowell being FAs. There are a lot of smart basket all folks that say Russell isn't the right guy so if the Wolves could draft a guy they think might be able to slot in next to Edwards there is plenty of reason to do it. Heck even drafting a guy that could take on a deceive combo role that Beverly has (tough shoes to fill) would make sense. The Wolves do have some guards in the pipeline that might be able grow into roles but they are very much unproven.

[KG4Ever]

Jean Montero. I'm looking for someone who will eventually replace D'Lo and doesn't have to be shoehorned into the lineup.

My do not want list is headlined by Blake Wesley. Just not interested in someone who struggled at everything we'd need from him

I don't necessarily hate Jean Montero as a prospect, but I would be miffed if they took him at 19 over who's likely to be available. That would be a reach in my book, especially given the strengths and weaknesses of this current roster, and a bad overall first impression of this new front office.

Take a flyer on him at 40 if you like, but I expect better and more reliable talent to be available at 19.

I agree with Cam on this one. I'd be ticked off if he went at 19. He's projected as a second rounder and I like both TyTy and Chandler much more at 19 as far as point guard candidates. I even like Andrew Nembhhard more if we are considering point guards at 40. His teammate at Team Overtime was Dom Barlow and I think he's overall a better prospect in the second round. If the Wolves drafted him at 50 to stash him, I'd be fine with that.

[Lipoli390]

Just finished watching the Duke Gonzaga game from early in the season. It was a fan game with a number of players that the Wolves could select and a couple top guys they won't have a chance at. I think Wendell moore could be that do shit perimeter pseudo star in the mold of Jrue, Smart and maybe Derrick White. I also think there is a path of him being a solid piece on a good or contending team as a complimentary player. I also think there is some upside there is a guy that has a little more juice offensively than he gets credit for. When he gets switched on to bigs they don't seems to be able to take advantage of the mismatch. Timme didn't do anything when he got switched onto Moore. I could see Moore being a guy that cab play as a pseudo PG next to Edwards. What a backcourt duo that COULD be defensively.

The Wolves already have a glut of perimeter players already and Moore theoretically should be able to play some minutes right away or that's a reasonable expectation. Liddell is a more proven player at a spot with a more immediate need and is reasonable to expect he may be to play some minutes right away too. I just really like what I have seen out of Moore and a few pathways I see that he can become a worthwhile player and good selection.

Nembhard would be a nice pick later in the draft though. He had some turnovers in this game but he also had a boatload of assists and made some timely plays.

Is there any high level shooters in this draft we should be looking at?

I'm with you on Moore, Monster. The more I see of him the more I like him. I'd actually list Moore in response to your question about whether there are any high level shooters in the draft. Moore hit 50% of his field goal attempts and 41.3% of his three-point attempts last season. Although the 41.3% was on a fairly limited volume of 3.2, it's still revealing. I agree that Liddell would fill a position of need for the Wolves more than Moore would. But I don't agree that Liddell is a more proven player. Both had breakout Junior seasons and they were both comparably impressive statistically, albeit in different statistical areas.

Lip I can't say Moore is a proven 3 point shooter but he is a good FT shooter over 80% all 3 college seasons. Before this year he shot 30% his sophomore season and 21% his freshman year. His sophomore season he under 10ppg on poor efficiency He played the 3rd most minutes on a pretty meh Duke team. In some ways Moore kinda came out of nowhere.

Meanwhile Liddell was putting up a pretty good sophomore season as one of the top players on a good Ohio state team.

The question is who is going to be the best player at the next level. I see the path/s for Moore at the next level but I also just can't say it's for sure going to happen since like I said he did really come into what he was this season. He is still a fairly young player as a young Junior.

Ultimately I just want the best player possible and I still have some more guys to look at.

All good points, Monster. I agree it comes down to who the Wolves consider the best prospect irrespective of need or position. This is a pretty deep draft and the Wolves have an opportunity to add high-end talent at #19 and even at #40. If they think Liddell is the best available prospect at #19, then should take him. But I think there will be better prospects available at that point in the draft. In my view, every first-round pick should be a home run swing. Take the big swing and if you miss so be it. But when you swing hard good things tend to happen. And if your hard swing doesn't knock the ball out of the park, it could get you a triple, double or solid single.

[WildWolf2813]

Jean Montero. I'm looking for someone who will eventually replace D'Lo and doesn't have to be shoehorned into the lineup.

My do not want list is headlined by Blake Wesley. Just not interested in someone who struggled at everything we'd need from him

I don't necessarily hate Jean Montero as a prospect, but I would be miffed if they took him at 19 over who's likely to be available. That would be a reach in my book, especially given the strengths and weaknesses of this current roster, and a bad overall first impression of this new front office.

Take a flyer on him at 40 if you like, but I expect better and more reliable talent to be available at 19.

I think he's the best PG prospect in the class (better than any of these PG prospects in an admittedly weak class). I just think his biggest downside is that he's coming from an institution that nobody can accurately judge, so he is a guinea pig.

At least over the next couple of years, we're entering a big dry spell in terms of the PG prospect pool. Not a whole lot to choose from unless you're deep into tanking for someone like Scoot next year. The year to get that guy is now and I don't wanna leave it to chance. If you wanna use the 2nd rounders to trade up into round 1 again, be my guest, but at the 40th pick, I don't wanna place the expectation of that guy needing to be the future PG of my team. That's asking a lot of anyone, but I'm not seeing other ways we can add a future PG to this team that doesn't involve having to grit your teeth and your keep D'Lo.

[Lipoli390]

Jean Montero. I'm looking for someone who will eventually replace D'Lo and doesn't have to be shoehorned into the lineup.

My do not want list is headlined by Blake Wesley. Just not interested in someone who struggled at everything we'd need from him

I don't necessarily hate Jean Montero as a prospect, but I would be miffed if they took him at 19 over who's likely to be available. That would be a reach in my book, especially given the strengths and weaknesses of this current roster, and a bad overall first impression of this new front office.

Take a flyer on him at 40 if you like, but I expect better and more reliable talent to be available at 19.

I think he's the best PG prospect in the class (better than any of these PG prospects in an admittedly weak class). I just think his biggest downside is that he's coming from an institution that nobody can accurately judge, so he is a guinea pig.

At least over the next couple of years, we're entering a big dry spell in terms of the PG prospect pool. Not a whole lot to choose from unless you're deep into tanking for someone like Scoot next year. The year to get that guy is now and I don't wanna leave it to chance. If you wanna use the 2nd rounders to trade up into round 1 again, be my guest, but at the 40th pick, I don't wanna place the expectation of that guy needing to be the future PG of my team. That's asking a lot of anyone, but I'm not seeing other ways we can add a future PG to this team that doesn't involve having to grit your teeth and your keep D'Lo.

Actually, the best PG prospect in the draft might be Dalen Terry, a wing with an 8'10 standing reach who has the ball-handling and passing skills of a PG. He averaged 5.1 assists on a 36-minute equivalent basis. I'm not impressed by any of the "true" PG prospects in this year's draft. If the Wolves are drafting for talent at #19 and #40, then they'll have a number of options with more talent than any of the PGs available when when they're on the clock.