The Deal that Almost Didn’t Happen

[Lipoli390]

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-warriors-andrew-wiggins-dangelo-161325815.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10037922-espn-wolves-rosas-was-incensed-by-warriors-demands-in-andrew-wiggins-trade-talks

Interesting article today. Apparently Rosas was really pissed over the draft pick demands the Warriors were making as part of the DLO/Wiggins deal. Apparently, Golden State reduced the number of picks. But Rosas still wasn't happy with the limited pick protections. Ultimately Rosas accepted those limited protections.

Another intriguing aspect of the deal was the salary dump. Not only did Minnesota provide the Warriors with a lightly protected first round pick and the Wolves second round pick in the 30s, they also accepted three marginal players the Warriors needed to jettison for salary flexibility. So the Warriors got quite a lot out of that deal. Notoriously absent from the incoming group of marginal players was Jordan Poole who to that point had not been impressive. What a nice get that would have been for the Wolves.

[kekgeek]

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-warriors-andrew-wiggins-dangelo-161325815.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10037922-espn-wolves-rosas-was-incensed-by-warriors-demands-in-andrew-wiggins-trade-talks

Interesting article today. Apparently Rosas was really pissed over the draft pick demands the Warriors were making as part of the DLO/Wiggins deal. Apparently, Golden State reduced the number of picks. But Rosas still wasn't happy with the limited pick protections. Ultimately Rosas accepted those limited protections.

Another intriguing aspect of the deal was the salary dump. Not only did Minnesota provide the Warriors with a lightly protected first round pick and the Wolves second round pick in the 30s, they also accepted three marginal players the Warriors needed to jettison for salary flexibility. So the Warriors got quite a lot out of that deal. Notoriously absent from the incoming group of marginal players was Jordan Poole who to that point had not been impressive. What a nice get that would have been for the Wolves.

At the time of the trade the wolves had what was considered one of if not the worst contact in the NBA with Wiggins. With reports saying at least 1 possibly 2 1sts were going to be needed to dump Wiggins. Also the wolves were desperate a little bit also. Kat frustrations grew due to another year of losing and injury. The wolves were really stale and needed a change.

It is what it is. Dlo helped the wolves win 46 games, Wiggins is helping the warriors win a title. Situations were different, if kuminga ends up good it's a bad trade if he doesn't then the wolves survived the Wiggins tax

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

ESPN's Zach Lowe reported Tuesday, citing sources, that when the Warriors and Minnesota Timberwolves first began talking about a trade involving Wiggins and D'Angelo Russell ahead of the 2019-20 deadline, general manager Bob Myers insisted on receiving two unprotected first-round picks and two second-round picks.

Gersson Rosas, the Timberwolves' president of basketball operations at the time, got upset at the offer and briefly cut off trade talks.

Myers then countered with one unprotected first-round pick, which Rosas also declined, wanting a pick protected up to the No. 7-9 range.

"I went to bed thinking we were not going to get a deal done," Myers told Lowe. "Deals die over picks all the time."

Thanks for posting this, Lip. I hadn't seen either of these articles yet. I quoted a piece from the Yahoo link that you shared. The bolded text confirms two things to me.

Firstly, Minnesota had absolutely zero leverage at that time primarily due to Andrew Wiggins' underwhelming play and his max contract with multiple years remaining, which was perceived as one of the worst deals in the entire league. We actually had prior reporting that suggested teams were asking for two first-round picks to take on Wiggins, but now we know that Golden State was initially demanding that as well. Good for Gersson Rosas for pushing back and cutting off trade talks knowing that D'Angelo Russell wasn't a player that fit well with the Warriors' core and that they'd eventually come back with a more agreeable offer.

Secondly, it makes more sense knowing that Rosas wanted to protect the first-round pick in the 7-9 range versus the top-four that it eventually was. He had been much maligned over the last couple of years because of that detail. Obviously, we would have all preferred the pick to have further protection, but Zach Lowe's reporting indicates that Rosas compromised the pick's protection in order to lower the overall number of picks involved in the trade. That seems reasonable to me. I think the deal probably would have processed without the Wolves taking on the two smaller contracts from the Warriors, but I can certainly understand why Rosas didn't let the trade fall through because of that and agreed to include them.

I will always remember that deal as a good one for Minnesota given the unfavorable circumstances and the improved results when pairing Karl-Anthony Towns with Russell as opposed to the results Towns had with Wiggins. Ultimately, I think it's fair to consider this a trade where both teams essentially got what they wanted. Both teams objectively improved because of this trade.

[Lipoli390]

If it had been up to me, I wouldn't have done the deal. I still think we could have swapped Wiggins for Batum and gotten at least a 2nd-round pick in return. However, we'll never know.

In any event, the article gives us a great look behind the curtain. And I'll say that the more we learn about Rosas, the better he looks. After an initial misstep with the misguided trade up and Culver pick in the 2019 draft, Rosas got himself on track. Yes, there was a bad decision to re-sign Juancho, but he turned a lemon into lemonade when he traded Juancho and Culver for Beverley. He made terrific draft decisions with the Edwards and McDaniels picks. He found and signed impressive under-the-radar talent in Naz Reid and JMac. I still like the deal that landed Beasley and Vando.

When it comes to the DLO deal, this article shows that Rosas fought the good fight to get the best deal he thought he could get with Golden State. While I disagree with his final decision in this instance, the facts unveiled in this article tell me that he performed competently. Rosas showed overall good judgment, tenacity and decisive leadership. I have high expectations for Connelly. But honestly he has some pretty impressive shoes to fill in the wake of Gersson's relatively brief tenure here.

[Monster]

It's interesting to hear some more details especially since currently this deal is looking good for GS.

It's always fun to say who won or lost a trade or analyze what happened etc. There is still a reality even if it's annoying to hear that it can take years to find out how an entire trade/move paid off for each team. Keep in mind that to add Russell in the first GS traded a lightly protected 2024 1st round pick to Memphis to move Iggy. Obviously if GS wins a championship this year then basically the trade is going to be a win for them almost no matter what happens afterward. No matter what value you place on Wiggins it's pretty clear he has been a legit factor in them playing well this season and getting to the Finals.

Speaking of Memphis (and to my point about how long in can take to see whether a team does well in a trade) they traded away their 2 aging cornerstone players and they are still reaping rewards from the Conley trade as they have a 1st round pick from Utah this draft. They have made a bunch moves here and there which have helped them build into another playoff team along with some lottery luck being able to draft Ja. One of the reasons why the Gasol trade worked out well for them was they were able to sign Jones V who is a really solid player to a contract that was actually a little less than his previous one which became a pretty good value even in the league which has not valued true centers too highly. They moved him for Adams and so they have had a good starting Center the whole time after moving Gasol and they have paid those guys reasonable salaries. You can go down quite a rabbit hole to see what all Memphis has done with the players, assets, cap space, picks they received in those deals.

It will be interesting to see what happens next with the Wolves. Will they end up with some more value on their end of the Russell deal in one way or another? Will they end up with even less value than they already have gained from the deal? Either way I'm here for it because I can't leave. Lol

[Lipoli390]

It's interesting to hear some more details especially since currently this deal is looking good for GS.

It's always fun to say who won or lost a trade or analyze what happened etc. There is still a reality even if it's annoying to hear that it can take years to find out how an entire trade/move paid off for each team. Keep in mind that to add Russell in the first GS traded a lightly protected 2024 1st round pick to Memphis to move Iggy. Obviously if GS wins a championship this year then basically the trade is going to be a win for them almost no matter what happens afterward. No matter what value you place on Wiggins it's pretty clear he has been a legit factor in them playing well this season and getting to the Finals.

Speaking of Memphis (and to my point about how long in can take to see whether a team does well in a trade) they traded away their 2 aging cornerstone players and they are still reaping rewards from the Conley trade as they have a 1st round pick from Utah this draft. They have made a bunch moves here and there which have helped them build into another playoff team along with some lottery luck being able to draft Ja. One of the reasons why the Gasol trade worked out well for them was they were able to sign Jones V who is a really solid player to a contract that was actually a little less than his previous one which became a pretty good value even in the league which has not valued true centers too highly. They moved him for Adams and so they have had a good starting Center the whole time after moving Gasol and they have paid those guys reasonable salaries. You can go down quite a rabbit hole to see what all Memphis has done with the players, assets, cap space, picks they received in those deals.

It will be interesting to see what happens next with the Wolves. Will they end up with some more value on their end of the Russell deal in one way or another? Will they end up with even less value than they already have gained from the deal? Either way I'm here for it because I can't leave. Lol

Good points, Monster. I'm glad you mentioned Memphis. They often get overlooked when discussing good NBA organizations. The Grizzlies' front office has been quietly building a really good team - a team that had the 2nd-best record in the Western Conference last year. You identified some good examples of the smart moves the Grizzlies' front office has made. Typically, the teams that acquire 1st-round picks tend to do better than the teams that trade them away. I know there are exceptions, but that's my general sense. Often is comes down to knowing when it's time to party company with good veteran players - i.e., the right time to trade them to maximize the return, which typically includes future draft picks.

I should add, that the predicament Rosas was in reflected the organization's failure to move on from Wiggins earlier when Wiggins still have significant trade value. That wasn't Gersson's fault; it was the hand prior Wolves regimes dealt him. You'll probably recall reports that the Bulls were willing to trade Butler straight up for Wiggins, but Thibs declined. That was a huge strategic mistake. And you can't dismiss that characterization as pure hindsight. I believe nearly everyone on this message board would have taken the Bulls up on that one-for-one offer rather than swapping first round picks and giving up both LaVine and Dunn.

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

[Tactical unit]

This all seems to highlight one thing to me the teams in on DLO during FA were MN, GSW and who else?

GSW traded him so they obviously didn't see the fit, NYN have Rosas who traded for him in the past and thus you could see the interest Rosas would have again in trading for DLO. What other teams have shown interest in DLO? I think it's public knowledge he could be had and if any team wanted him at all they surely would call after he was benched in the playoffs to see if MN wanted to move him. I think there is small market or maybe even no market for DLO right now.

With that being said he does bring some skills to the table and will likely regress to his norm and shoot the 3 ball better. The deal that almost never happened IMO was done to appease KAT and point this team in a better direction immediately. Kinda like brining in a new coach that was an assistant for another team mid season, Finch had a low bar to clear in pointing it in the right direction. Rosas was smart enough to know he had to have DLO & Finch to point at and say see we are getting better. If he kept his dick in his pants it really would have been brilliant from a GM perspective, not many times you can lose a trade and still have it be a solid job saving type of move, which is how I viewed the whole thing.

Without the DLO trade and Finch move, KAT was probably heading towards get me out of MN and as soon as that request gets serious Rosas would have been canned. Good on him for getting the deal done.

[WildWolf2813]

Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

[Lipoli390]

Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

Not sure why Ant wouldn't be here if not for the DLO deal. We would't have been any better with Wiggins than we were with DLO, which means we would have ended up with the pick that Rosas used to pick Ant.

However, while I wasn't a fan of the DLO deal, I don't think it will end up having any serious negative long-term impact on the Wolves. And it's fair to argue it will have a positive long-term impact. It already resulted in more wins last season than I believe we would have had with Wiggins and whoever the Wolves would have picked last year.

When it comes to Wiggins, the real issue isn't Rosas; it's Thibodeau. Thibs had the chance to move Wiggins when Wiggins still had significant trade value, but he missed the opportunity. Thibodeau, not Taylor, made the decision to bet on Wiggins and give him the max contract. I'm told by insiders that Taylor asked Thibs if they should keep Wiggins and Thibs said yes. Thibodeau thought that bringing in Butler would would light a fire under Wiggins. Taylor had doubts about Wiggins, which is why he had that famously silly "looked him in the eye" meeting before signing the max deal.