Q-was-here wrote:Well, I think this is just a paper exercise because I just don't see the Wolves being a destination for Simmons at this point.
As 99% of all trade threads are, right? I generally avoid them, but for some reason this one captures my attention. I agree though...not at all likely to happen.
Getting back to the original intent of the thread: I was on board with Finchy benching DLO at the most critical moment of the season. But did that move diminish DLO's perceived trade value around the league? Heck, one brain fart moment in a key playoff game changed the national narrative about Simmons. Being benched in favor of a relatively unknown PG like J-Mac certainly doesn't help us as we try to move DLO.
Not sure the calculus on DLO changed based on the playoffs. His primary value to other franchises remains as an expiring contract. Now, if he's signing a new deal at $20-24M per year, may be he becomes a positive trade asset or we're fine keeping him because it feels like his on floor value is equivalent to his $ value at those levels. But I suspect his agent won't do that deal and he either gets traded as an expiring contract or the Wolves just play out the string with him next season and he gets traded before the deadline or he becomes a UFA in the summer of '23.
Q-was-here wrote:Not sure the calculus on DLO changed based on the playoffs. His primary value to other franchises remains as an expiring contract. Now, if he's signing a new deal at $20-24M per year, may be he becomes a positive trade asset or we're fine keeping him because it feels like his on floor value is equivalent to his $ value at those levels. But I suspect his agent won't do that deal and he either gets traded as an expiring contract or the Wolves just play out the string with him next season and he gets traded before the deadline or he becomes a UFA in the summer of '23.
If Russell's agents want to get the most for themselves and Russell (especially if Russell actually wants to stay with the Wolves beyond 2022) I think as I have said before they would be wise to encourage him to consider signing a long term deal in the range of what you suggested. I've mentioned Dennis Schoder a couple times and I do think that Russell is a better player overall and it wasn't that long again Schroeder supposedly turned down 20 million a year from the Lakers and wanted more. I do think Russell's best case for getting more than what some people her on this board would pay him is look at the success the team had this year. I think it would be fair for him to suggest that he had some legit impact on that success regardless of shooting numbers etc. I think his agents have to have some sort of pulse or will have in a few months of what Russell's actual value around the league is. Unless Russell is a guy that's simply out to make the most money possible (honesty nobody knows either way) he might listen to his representatives and consider locking in a deal this summer. Again the alternative...might be much less or signing for the mid-level or less from other teams.
I keep thinking these discussions about Russell's real or perceived value compared to his contract sound familiar. It reminds me a little of another Wolves flawed PG Ricky Rubio. They are obviously different players and obviously Russell is more expensive now but again what if Russell gets paid on his next contract more like a legit starting PG like Rubio was instead of a max deal? We had so many debates on what value Rubio actually brought aside from his flaws. Was he worth the money? Should he be moved for player XY or Z that doesn't have the flaws in one area that he has. I do feel like Russell kinda like Rubio (once Rubio was still young enough people thought he could become a scorer) people look at them through a lens of something that probably isn't attainable instead of the value they have now. Russell because he is paid as a max player and Rubio because he was a guy with so much promise but hadn't achieved it even if he was a good starter.
Ultimately as I have said before I don't see the Wolves trading Russell this offseason. I don't see him having value since he is an expiring player with a big contract. There isn't many guys out there that the expiring deal would bring back. I think the Wolves seem invested in Russell. Meanwhile let's say he leaves after next season. That's a lot of money off the books and the Wolves can look at replacements. I don't see some awesome value coming back for him in a deal so why move him? It's not like he is dead weight and I don't see some sort of awesome player they are missing out because they are gonna hang on to him. What would be great is if the Wolves own pipeline of young players is what replaces Russell after next season even if that might not be super likely. They could add to that this year in the draft.
I don't want to see us even spend $20 million on DLO this offseason to extend him. I think the Wolves can better spend the money elsewhere and there is no reason to preemptively agree to anything that high as I am not convinced he would get that much on the open market. I'd prefer to let next season play out and, in a year, the Wolves can better gauge how they want to use their money between resigning DLO, reserving enough money to keep McDaniels or opting to use that money to sign or acquire another player.
KG4Ever wrote:I don't want to see us even spend $20 million on DLO this offseason to extend him. I think the Wolves can better spend the money elsewhere and there is no reason to preemptively agree to anything that high as I am not convinced he would get that much on the open market. I'd prefer to let next season play out and, in a year, the Wolves can better gauge how they want to use their money between resigning DLO, reserving enough money to keep McDaniels or opting to use that money to sign or acquire another player.
I think that's a fair position. I think your point about seeing where the Wolves need to spend their money makes a worthwhile point about the Wolves may not actually know what it is they need right now. Why not roll with what they have while adding to the roster in FA and the draft and then see (maybe at the trade deadline) whether to make a more significant move. This team and roster still isn't a finished product. It's also worth remembering that Beverly is only signed for 1 more year and will be weeks from turning 35 at the end of that season. What if they need to replace him in one way or another too? Maybe someone or multiple players else on the roster steps forward. Maybe someone takes a step back or the FA they sign doesn't really work out well and they realize they need to add something they thought they had figured out.
I think I would still have some interest in seeing if I could agree to keep Russell here beyond next season but I'm really fine with just keeping him on his current deal and go from there. It's not a bad way to go.
crazysauce wrote:What about a sign and trade package for Jalen Brunson?
What would be in it for Dallas?
The reason why a Dallas would do it would be the same reason Golden State traded Durant for Dlo. If Brunson does not want to return to Dallas they would still get something for him instead of nothing. And since they didn't come to an agreement when Dallas had the chance along with the fact maybe he would want to spend more time as a true pg instead of off with Luka maybe there is something there.
Q-was-here wrote:Not sure the calculus on DLO changed based on the playoffs. His primary value to other franchises remains as an expiring contract. Now, if he's signing a new deal at $20-24M per year, may be he becomes a positive trade asset or we're fine keeping him because it feels like his on floor value is equivalent to his $ value at those levels. But I suspect his agent won't do that deal and he either gets traded as an expiring contract or the Wolves just play out the string with him next season and he gets traded before the deadline or he becomes a UFA in the summer of '23.
I wonder if any team in the League values DLO at anything higher than $20-24 million per year. I suspect not. If the only teams we can find as trade partners for DLO are motivated primarily by his expiring contract, that doesn't bode well for the Wolves because that would probably mean the other team is trying to off-load an overpriced but longer-term contract. I have a hard time coming of with viable trade partners for DLO. I think it would be much easier to find a viable trade for Beasley.
KG4Ever wrote:I don't want to see us even spend $20 million on DLO this offseason to extend him. I think the Wolves can better spend the money elsewhere and there is no reason to preemptively agree to anything that high as I am not convinced he would get that much on the open market. I'd prefer to let next season play out and, in a year, the Wolves can better gauge how they want to use their money between resigning DLO, reserving enough money to keep McDaniels or opting to use that money to sign or acquire another player.
The Dennis Schroeder example mentioned by Monster seems apt.
Even with Russell being a better player overall... is he THAT much better? Maybe. But at the same time, isn't it also possible we see Russell bouncing from team to team as a throw-in in the next few years?
[Note: It'll be interesting what happens with different types of players this summer. How much does Jalen Brunson get? Tyus Jones? Or even a guy at a different position like Grant Williams?]
I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
