The DLO Trade Thread

[KG4Ever]

I'm pretty sure finding a defensive/rebounding big is highly attainable goal given the glut of big men looking for work and the deemphasis on traditional centers. Case in point, is multi-all star Drummond taking a minimum salary, former all-star Cousins looking for work, former All-star Aldridge buried on the bench, former max player Whiteside taking scraps, Gorgui who once was highly paid, being a deep bench player, and on and on. Plus, guys like Jarrett Allen, Collins, Jokic, Robert Williams, Mitchell Robinson, Gobert, Vucevic, Zubac, Bam Adebayo, Draymond Green, Nurkic were all drafted outside the lottery. At 19, there will likely be a big that can be a good starter if we haven't addressed our big in free agency with a Hartenstein, Jalen Smith, Nurkic, Drummond, Portis, Boucher etc. I think the issue with the Wolves is that once Rosas took over, he envisioned building a team in the Houston mode with shooters in a small ball lineup with KAT being the sole big man. Given KAT's deficiencies as a rim protector, and ability to defend on the perimeter, I hope Gupta doesn't follow the Rosas blueprint and opts for a defensive minded big to pair with KAT.

[Lipoli390]

I'm pretty sure finding a defensive/rebounding big is highly attainable goal given the glut of big men looking for work and the deemphasis on traditional centers. Case in point, is multi-all star Drummond taking a minimum salary, former all-star Cousins looking for work, former All-star Aldridge buried on the bench, former max player Whiteside taking scraps, Gorgui who once was highly paid, being a deep bench player, and on and on. Plus, guys like Jarrett Allen, Collins, Jokic, Robert Williams, Mitchell Robinson, Gobert, Vucevic, Zubac, Bam Adebayo, Draymond Green, Nurkic were all drafted outside the lottery. At 19, there will likely be a big that can be a good starter if we haven't addressed our big in free agency with a Hartenstein, Jalen Smith, Nurkic, Drummond, Portis, Boucher etc. I think the issue with the Wolves is that once Rosas took over, he envisioned building a team in the Houston mode with shooters in a small ball lineup with KAT being the sole big man. Given KAT's deficiencies as a rim protector, and ability to defend on the perimeter, I hope Gupta doesn't follow the Rosas blueprint and opts for a defensive minded big to pair with KAT.

Good points, KG. I'll add that it's not simply KAT's defensive or rim-protecting deficiencies that creates the need for another big. It's mainly the team's overall poor defensive rebounding and that's not KAT's fault since he's an excellent rebounder. In fact, in selecting a big, I'd prioritize rebounding over shot-blocking.

The only push back I'll give you is on KAT's perimeter defense. I actually think he's a pretty good perimeter defender and better defensively on the perimeter than he is inside. I think part of the Wolves defensive improvement this season was Finchy's decision to bring KAT out to defend the perimeter more often. That's another reason I like the idea of adding a big body like Nurkic, Drummond, Moses Brown or Hartenstein. However, I like Jalen Smith a lot.

Bottom line is that I think you're spot on in your assessment of the market value of bigs in the League right now. I have little doubt that all the bigs you listed can be signed for the full MLE or less. The one exception to that could be Nurkic, but I think his injury issues will keep his market value in the MLE range. I think he'd be the perfect FA big for this team. He provides the size and rebounding we need next to KAT while also contributing on the offensive end. The question for the Wolves front office is whether they want to sign him given his injury issues.

[Q-is-here]

I'm pretty sure finding a defensive/rebounding big is highly attainable goal given the glut of big men looking for work and the deemphasis on traditional centers. Case in point, is multi-all star Drummond taking a minimum salary, former all-star Cousins looking for work, former All-star Aldridge buried on the bench, former max player Whiteside taking scraps, Gorgui who once was highly paid, being a deep bench player, and on and on. Plus, guys like Jarrett Allen, Collins, Jokic, Robert Williams, Mitchell Robinson, Gobert, Vucevic, Zubac, Bam Adebayo, Draymond Green, Nurkic were all drafted outside the lottery. At 19, there will likely be a big that can be a good starter if we haven't addressed our big in free agency with a Hartenstein, Jalen Smith, Nurkic, Drummond, Portis, Boucher etc. I think the issue with the Wolves is that once Rosas took over, he envisioned building a team in the Houston mode with shooters in a small ball lineup with KAT being the sole big man. Given KAT's deficiencies as a rim protector, and ability to defend on the perimeter, I hope Gupta doesn't follow the Rosas blueprint and opts for a defensive minded big to pair with KAT.

I agree. It seems like a solve-able issue.

[KG4Ever]

I'm pretty sure finding a defensive/rebounding big is highly attainable goal given the glut of big men looking for work and the deemphasis on traditional centers. Case in point, is multi-all star Drummond taking a minimum salary, former all-star Cousins looking for work, former All-star Aldridge buried on the bench, former max player Whiteside taking scraps, Gorgui who once was highly paid, being a deep bench player, and on and on. Plus, guys like Jarrett Allen, Collins, Jokic, Robert Williams, Mitchell Robinson, Gobert, Vucevic, Zubac, Bam Adebayo, Draymond Green, Nurkic were all drafted outside the lottery. At 19, there will likely be a big that can be a good starter if we haven't addressed our big in free agency with a Hartenstein, Jalen Smith, Nurkic, Drummond, Portis, Boucher etc. I think the issue with the Wolves is that once Rosas took over, he envisioned building a team in the Houston mode with shooters in a small ball lineup with KAT being the sole big man. Given KAT's deficiencies as a rim protector, and ability to defend on the perimeter, I hope Gupta doesn't follow the Rosas blueprint and opts for a defensive minded big to pair with KAT.

Good points, KG. I'll add that it's not simply KAT's defensive or rim-protecting deficiencies that creates the need for another big. It's mainly the team's overall poor defensive rebounding and that's not KAT's fault since he's an excellent rebounder. In fact, in selecting a big, I'd prioritize rebounding over shot-blocking.

The only push back I'll give you is on KAT's perimeter defense. I actually think he's a pretty good perimeter defender and better defensively on the perimeter than he is inside. I think part of the Wolves defensive improvement this season was Finchy's decision to bring KAT out to defend the perimeter more often. That's another reason I like the idea of adding a big body like Nurkic, Drummond, Moses Brown or Hartenstein. However, I like Jalen Smith a lot.

Bottom line is that I think you're spot on in your assessment of the market value of bigs in the League right now. I have little doubt that all the bigs you listed can be signed for the full MLE or less. The one exception to that could be Nurkic, but I think his injury issues will keep his market value in the MLE range. I think he'd be the perfect FA big for this team. He provides the size and rebounding we need next to KAT while also contributing on the offensive end. The question for the Wolves front office is whether they want to sign him given his injury issues.

I actually meant to say that KAT is a good perimeter defender, so no disagreement with you there. I now realize that I worded it poorly so that--I meant he's not a good rim protector but he's a good perimeter defender, therefore lets get a rim protector to pair with KAT.

[Lipoli390]

I'm pretty sure finding a defensive/rebounding big is highly attainable goal given the glut of big men looking for work and the deemphasis on traditional centers. Case in point, is multi-all star Drummond taking a minimum salary, former all-star Cousins looking for work, former All-star Aldridge buried on the bench, former max player Whiteside taking scraps, Gorgui who once was highly paid, being a deep bench player, and on and on. Plus, guys like Jarrett Allen, Collins, Jokic, Robert Williams, Mitchell Robinson, Gobert, Vucevic, Zubac, Bam Adebayo, Draymond Green, Nurkic were all drafted outside the lottery. At 19, there will likely be a big that can be a good starter if we haven't addressed our big in free agency with a Hartenstein, Jalen Smith, Nurkic, Drummond, Portis, Boucher etc. I think the issue with the Wolves is that once Rosas took over, he envisioned building a team in the Houston mode with shooters in a small ball lineup with KAT being the sole big man. Given KAT's deficiencies as a rim protector, and ability to defend on the perimeter, I hope Gupta doesn't follow the Rosas blueprint and opts for a defensive minded big to pair with KAT.

Good points, KG. I'll add that it's not simply KAT's defensive or rim-protecting deficiencies that creates the need for another big. It's mainly the team's overall poor defensive rebounding and that's not KAT's fault since he's an excellent rebounder. In fact, in selecting a big, I'd prioritize rebounding over shot-blocking.

The only push back I'll give you is on KAT's perimeter defense. I actually think he's a pretty good perimeter defender and better defensively on the perimeter than he is inside. I think part of the Wolves defensive improvement this season was Finchy's decision to bring KAT out to defend the perimeter more often. That's another reason I like the idea of adding a big body like Nurkic, Drummond, Moses Brown or Hartenstein. However, I like Jalen Smith a lot.

Bottom line is that I think you're spot on in your assessment of the market value of bigs in the League right now. I have little doubt that all the bigs you listed can be signed for the full MLE or less. The one exception to that could be Nurkic, but I think his injury issues will keep his market value in the MLE range. I think he'd be the perfect FA big for this team. He provides the size and rebounding we need next to KAT while also contributing on the offensive end. The question for the Wolves front office is whether they want to sign him given his injury issues.

I actually meant to say that KAT is a good perimeter defender, so no disagreement with you there. I now realize that I worded it poorly so that--I meant he's not a good rim protector but he's a good perimeter defender, therefore lets get a rim protector to pair with KAT.

We're in sync, KG. Let's hope Gupta's in sync with the two of us! :)

[FNG]

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2022/05/the-four-people-most-responsible-for-making-the-2021-22-timberwolves-season-such-an-enjoyable-ride/

A very detailed analysis by Robson of a very enjoyable season. He discusses the four people most key to the success of the team this year, and I think most of us here would agree with his thoughts. PatBev is in the sunset of his career and is not a building block going forward, but the other three are the key to our future...plus Gupta's ability to make some critical moves this summer.

[Monster]

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/craig-kilborn-on-the-timberwolves-season-upcoming/id1399177286?i=1000560127025

Kilborn says the organization is open to getting DLo out citing attitude problems. You think Craig is talking out of his ass? He is a comedian. Not sure how to take it. He does seem connected to the organization on some level. Wonder where he heard this?

I'm in the middle of listening to this podcast. Finished the first half on my drive to work, will get to the second half on the drive home. Kilborn is somewhat plugged in, but I think it's a very casual connection. I doubt he's got serious scoops on players.

I just thought it was interesting that Dane didnt refute it when Kilborn brought up execs feeling that way and they kept talking Dlo trade scenarios as seemingly real possibilities.

Yeah, Dane didn't refute a trade possibility, but he also didn't pour gasoline on the fire IMO and in fact mentioned that it's entirely possible the Wolves do some things to try to further bolster DLO's effectiveness next year.

Kilborn was more vociferous about it but that's based on how he feels about DLO - he appreciates his craftsmanship and floor game, but ultimately feels like the Wolves need to move on from him and get a more "pure" PG. He cited Mike Conley as the ideal archetype. I didn't for one second believe he was representing what ownership or the front office believes.

They both definitely talked about what we all here generally agree on - they need a new starting big next to KAT.

I just finished the podcast and it was quite enjoyable Kilborn was fun and had a different perspective and he certainly was willing to admit various aspects of the league he didn't know. I would like to listen the next time he was on.

I got ZERO sense he had any real information about what the Wolves would want to do with Russell. He clearly wants to move on from him not because he doesn't like him but because he doesn't think he is the right guy.

There were a couple interesting things that were brought up in this podcast I hadn't considered. At one point Kilborn again brought up Zubac (will be shocked if the Clippers don't keep him for another year) as a player he liked and was wondering about a big player like that next to Towns. Earlier Dane said he thought Towns proved this year he was able to guard better on the perimeter and therefore more able to play as a PF than he ever had before. He said we have much more evidence of Towns being able to do that than before this season. He also praised Towns Defense in the Memphis series which I think does not get talked about enough. Anyways Dane also mentioned he doesn't know if a big drop coverage guy is a player Finch wants with the defensive scheme he has put together. He said it's not like maybe they can't do something like that but he doesn't think Finch would want to do that. Of course that doesn't mean you can't have a bigger player next to Towns but I thought that was actually and excellent point. That would eliminate guys like Whiteside maybe Drummond (Dane said Dwight Howard) and probably some other guys. As a vet min guy unless he has lost some of his weird "athleticism" Dieng actually would make some sense for that scheme and he isn't a zero on offense. I'm not saying he is at the top of my list at all but he would fit. I haven't seen Hartenstein play enough but he doesn't seem like just a drop guy he seems more mobile.

So for guys we could sign this offseason (if there are no trades) we can be looking for guys that bring some more size although they might not be big rim protectors they can bring rebounding and hopefully a more physical element than the bigs we currently have. Again Nathan Knight kinda fits that theoretical mold as a developmental player. Should the Wolves consider a big ass dude if they are the best available guy in some phase of adding talent this summer? Sure. I can also get behind the idea they might be more in on a Bobby Portis type guy than maybe a guy like Nurkic. Dane did mention Noel as a possible trade target. He LOVES Myles Turner as a fit still. Sure sounds good but him staying healthy is a pretty big problem but Dane was mostly saying fit for what the Wolves need.

Anyways it was a good podcast I'm glad I spent the time checking it out.

[Monster]

There has been quite a bit of talk about Russell but I'm going to go back to some positives of his game this season. There were areas he actually improved this season.

Career bests:
2 point FG 49.7%
53.1% of overall shots taken from 3
2.9 turnovers per 36
82.5% FT
.246 Ft rate
5 DUNKS!!!! Lol

Maybe none of these especially on their own are huge factors and sure there are other areas that he was lower than past years. Some of these stats are ones that matter. I still believe Russell can be valuable and maybe even continue to evolve in how he helps an NBA team win games but the question for the Wolves mostly comes down to money.

Highly competent play at a position makes a difference. Ask the Suns who went from fringe NBA players at PG to Rubio to a future HOFer. The coaching change was pretty dramatic for them too... The Wolves need to add another frontcourt player that's an upgrade at times over Naz or Vanderbilt (and even Knight) that's going to make a legit difference. That can be done via FA or maybe a trade that doesn't include Russell.

[Lipoli390]

There has been quite a bit of talk about Russell but I'm going to go back to some positives of his game this season. There were areas he actually improved this season.

Career bests:
2 point FG 49.7%
53.1% of overall shots taken from 3
2.9 turnovers per 36
82.5% FT
.246 Ft rate
5 DUNKS!!!! Lol

Maybe none of these especially on their own are huge factors and sure there are other areas that he was lower than past years. Some of these stats are ones that matter. I still believe Russell can be valuable and maybe even continue to evolve in how he helps an NBA team win games but the question for the Wolves mostly comes down to money.

Highly competent play at a position makes a difference. Ask the Suns who went from fringe NBA players at PG to Rubio to a future HOFer. The coaching change was pretty dramatic for them too... The Wolves need to add another frontcourt player that's an upgrade at times over Naz or Vanderbilt (and even Knight) that's going to make a legit difference. That can be done via FA or maybe a trade that doesn't include Russell.

That's where I'm at, Monster. If a really good deal for DLO presents itself, then sure. But he's a highly competent PG on an expiring contract. I'm fine with that as the Wolves focus on filling their primary need. As a general matter, the Wolves need to substantially improve their rebounding. More specifically, they need to upgrade the starting PF or C position next to KAT. These are actually two separate needs that can potentially satisfied in large part by one personnel move - adding a really good rebounding big like Drummond. But we could also improve our rebounding by adding better rebounders at the PG and SF positions. Neither DLO nor McDaniels is a good rebounder. Prince isn't a particularly good rebounder either. The need to add a starting big to replace Vando is based on the need to get more size in the lineup, help KAT defensively and improve the team's rim protection. Vando's actually a terrific rebounder.

[Monster]

There has been quite a bit of talk about Russell but I'm going to go back to some positives of his game this season. There were areas he actually improved this season.

Career bests:
2 point FG 49.7%
53.1% of overall shots taken from 3
2.9 turnovers per 36
82.5% FT
.246 Ft rate
5 DUNKS!!!! Lol

Maybe none of these especially on their own are huge factors and sure there are other areas that he was lower than past years. Some of these stats are ones that matter. I still believe Russell can be valuable and maybe even continue to evolve in how he helps an NBA team win games but the question for the Wolves mostly comes down to money.

Highly competent play at a position makes a difference. Ask the Suns who went from fringe NBA players at PG to Rubio to a future HOFer. The coaching change was pretty dramatic for them too... The Wolves need to add another frontcourt player that's an upgrade at times over Naz or Vanderbilt (and even Knight) that's going to make a legit difference. That can be done via FA or maybe a trade that doesn't include Russell.

That's where I'm at, Monster. If a really good deal for DLO presents itself, then sure. But he's a highly competent PG on an expiring contract. I'm fine with that as the Wolves focus on filling their primary need. As a general matter, the Wolves need to substantially improve their rebounding. More specifically, they need to upgrade the starting PF or C position next to KAT. These are actually two separate needs that can potentially satisfied in large part by one personnel move - adding a really good rebounding big like Drummond. But we could also improve our rebounding by adding better rebounders at the PG and SF positions. Neither DLO nor McDaniels is a good rebounder. Prince isn't a particularly good rebounder either. The need to add a starting big to replace Vando is based on the need to get more size in the lineup, help KAT defensively and improve the team's rim protection. Vando's actually a terrific rebounder.

I think if McDaniels is at SF he is plenty good as a rebounder. His per 36 this year (some of that was as a PF) was just under 6 a game. I would say it's probably similarly for Prince. As a perimeter player his rebounding is fine it's when he is playing much at PF that it becomes more of a problem.

What would he really nice is seeing Vanderbilt giving them some rebounding off the bench. That was something they lacked this season. He won't be Brandon Clarke on the offensive end but I could see him bouncing all over the place as a bench player causing havoc against teams playing their 2nd units. Plus since he can defend perimeter players he can play against teams that just bring in a small guy. Vanderbilt and Naz might compliment each other on offense and Vanderbilt might even help Naz some on defense*. Ok that's it let's sign a legit player to start next to Towns at either spot do some savy drafting and maybe a trade here or there, maybe another cheap value signing, bring back Prince and let's go!!! Lol

I realize that if we sign someone that even plays 20-25 minutes Vanderbilt and/or Reid's minutes will be cut but unless we get a really good player at least one of them is gonna play legit minutes every night. One of them would be a really nice player to plug in in case of injury etc.