OG Anunoby trade

[Monster]

I disagree that Tim Connelly is bad at making trades although I was unsure about that even before we ended up bringing him on. I was skeptical about the Aaron Gordon trade but quite frankly I think it looks like a pretty good deal right now. He turned various players into draft picks and yeah sure he messed up a couple times but he also missed in the draft a couple times too and that led to the Jazz having a couple very good players lead them to multiple playoff appearances.

There isn't just one way to build a team. I do agree that at this point don't give up significant assets for an older player. A few months from now or next offseason that might be different because we may know the maybe one need we have to take the next step.

As for previous deals we should or shouldn't have done a big part of why the wolves have struggled for 15+ years is a lot draft record. We now have Connelly a guy with a legit track record of being successful in the draft and quite frankly otherwise. Im tying to move on and focus on the legit possibility of high level of competence drafting and making basketball decisions going forward. Weird right?!? Lol This should be a nice reset for all of us here although it's hard to let go of what we should or shouldn't do for the Wolves. Good days should be ahead of us. Let's enjoy it!

[Q-is-here]

No shortcuts, please! They always backfire for the Wolves. Draft and develop your own talent and supplement it with free agents. This is the tried and true roadmap for small market franchises. We got someone who is a good drafter, but not such a good trader. Plus, Toronto is asking for a ransom for Anunoby and he doesn't address a big need here.

Trades may not work when you are doing it from a position of weakness or desperation, but that's not the current state of affairs now that Minnesota established a modicum of respectability (thanks partially to your good buddy DLO by the way).

Did Milwaukee take a short cut when they traded for Jrue Holiday? They don't win a title without him and they are a smaller market than Minnesota.

How about when Phoenix traded for Chris Paul? Was that a shortcut? They got to the Finals and had the best record in the NBA this past season. They had 6 straight seasons of being below .500 before they traded for him, so I'd say that shortcut worked out pretty well!

What about when Toronto traded for Kawhi? How did that work out for the Raptors?

I agree that drafting and developing guys is absolutely key. Three of our most important players - KAT, Ant, and McDaniels - were all drafted by Minnesota. We need to keep it up.

But I'd argue that trades are even more important than free agent signings for small to mid-market teams.

[KG4Ever]

Golden State drafted its team and added Durant as a free agent and they are the best franchise in recent history. OKC drafted its team that made it to the finals. Toronto drafted its core or signed free agents other than Kawhi (who they only gave up one protected draft pick for). Minnesota has such a poor track record of trading away draft picks and young talent, that I really don't want to go down that route at this stage, especially since we are still a ways from being a serious title contender. Milwaukee drafted Giannis and Middleton and was much further along than Minnesota is now, before adding Holiday. Sure if Minnesota is one piece away from a title, then its fine to make a Jrue Holiday type move, but this team still hasn't gotten out of round one of playoffs. It was short-sighted for the Wolves to take a young team of three future all-stars that was still a losing team and add Butler to it. That's what I feared when the team brought in Thibs that he would be impatient to pad his own personal win numbers at the expense of the future. I thought the DLO trade was a desperate move and Rosas paid way too much for a guy that many teams had no interest in, was known to have coachability issues and had a history of being benched for poor defense. I want Connelly to play to his strength and build a team through the draft and free agency. Minor trades are fine. I don't have a problem with the Wolves trading any players other than Ant, KAT or McDaniels. I want this franchise to win a title as much as the rest of you, but I don't share the same roadmap to get there with some of you, but that is ok.

[kekgeek]

MVP Finals MVPs

Giannis: Drafted
LBJ (lakers): Free Agent
Kawhi (Raptors): Traded
Durant (warriors): FA
Durant (warriors): FA
LBJ (Cavs): FA
Iguodala (Warriors): Trade
Kawhi (Spurs): Drafted
LBJ (Heat): FA
LBJ (Heat): FA

8 of the last 10 finals MVPs were not drafted by that team when they won the title. If Ant and Kat are who we think they are it is fine trying to trade draft picks to acquire that 3rd piece. The Bucks gave up 4 1st round picks for Holiday, Lakers gave up Ingram, Ball, Randle, Clarkson and multiple 1sts for Davis, the Warriors traded 2 1st and other role players for Iggy, the Warriors traded All Star Monte Ellis for Bogut (it has came out in a recent Draymond Green podcast that Curry was the original trade but Mark Jackson stopped it and Bucks were worried about the ankle).

It is not taking short cuts if you believe in your star players. Like the Wolves didnt take a short cut with the Butler trade, Wiggins just never became that guy. Like if the Wolves didn't make the Butler trade it is not like the Wolves would be in a better position they are today.

The NBA is different now then it was in the past. Only 4 of the 30 NBA teams have a player who has been tenured for 10 years or more. Beal (Wizards), Haslem (Heat), Curry/Thompson/Green (Warriors) and Lillard (trailblazers). The league is different now, if you have the pieces you almost need to go all in because we are in the player movement era.

[kekgeek]

I think OG has been on our coveted list since the draft, and sure enough, he's turned out to be a real solid player. These big, strong wings that can hit the 3 are just incredibly valuable.

Is there actually any rumors about him being made available or is this just the type of wishful thinking we're all wont to do at times?

There are some rumors he wants out to have a bigger role offensively. What he wouldn't have here (he becomes a free agent during the new tv deal).

Is he the next Jeremi Grant who goes to a crappy team to have a bigger role? To some extent Grant did blossom in a bigger role but for what purpose? It looks like OG's game has taken off and he isn't just a good role player but is he really a top 2 offensive player on a pretty good team? Off the top of my head the Kings make some sense but idk what assets they have that would really make the a raptors actually consider making such a deal.

I haven't watched OG enough to know if he could be a top offensive weapon (vs. a #3 or 4 type guy). I'd be skeptical that he could grow into a role like that on a really good team. Like you said, good for Grant that he gets to be featured in Detroit. But if he ever wants to go win a bunch of games, he'd embrace the role of being a 3rd or 4th option and focus on defense.

(BTW, while he didn't choose this route, Wiggins kind of took the opposite path of Grant and potentially OG. He started out as a top 2 scoring option and then eventually settled into a #3 or 4 type option in Golden State and focused on defense. This has turned out to be his ideal role. It will be interesting to see whether he embraces that identity at a fair market value on his next contract or wishes to leverage his All-Star appearance and go to a crappy team where he can go score a bunch of points).

I really don't blame him much. He is an NBA champion been the 3rd and 4th option for multiple years. Might want a job change and see if he can be the guy. Also he become a free agent when the TV deal expires, he could be in for a huge pay day if he can consistently score the ball.

[KG4Ever]

MVP Finals MVPs

Giannis: Drafted
LBJ (lakers): Free Agent
Kawhi (Raptors): Traded
Durant (warriors): FA
Durant (warriors): FA
LBJ (Cavs): FA
Iguodala (Warriors): Trade
Kawhi (Spurs): Drafted
LBJ (Heat): FA
LBJ (Heat): FA

8 of the last 10 finals MVPs were not drafted by that team when they won the title. If Ant and Kat are who we think they are it is fine trying to trade draft picks to acquire that 3rd piece. The Bucks gave up 4 1st round picks for Holiday, Lakers gave up Ingram, Ball, Randle, Clarkson and multiple 1sts for Davis, the Warriors traded 2 1st and other role players for Iggy, the Warriors traded All Star Monte Ellis for Bogut (it has came out in a recent Draymond Green podcast that Curry was the original trade but Mark Jackson stopped it and Bucks were worried about the ankle).

It is not taking short cuts if you believe in your star players. Like the Wolves didnt take a short cut with the Butler trade, Wiggins just never became that guy. Like if the Wolves didn't make the Butler trade it is not like the Wolves would be in a better position they are today.

The NBA is different now then it was in the past. Only 4 of the 30 NBA teams have a player who has been tenured for 10 years or more. Beal (Wizards), Haslem (Heat), Curry/Thompson/Green (Warriors) and Lillard (trailblazers). The league is different now, if you have the pieces you almost need to go all in because we are in the player movement era.

I think its fair to call it a shortcut, and that's exactly what I thought when the trade was made given that Butler was much older, not signed to a long term deal and was a risky move to shake up the culture and giving up Lavine who I rightly thought would become an all-star, plus No. 9 and the former year's No. 5 (which could have been an all-star had Thibs not fkked up the pick). But also Thibs was the wrong coach and was much worse personnel man. Kerr put Wiggins in a role where he can succeed, Thibs didn't. Thibs even thought Wiggins could be a point guard. LOL Thibs didn't hold the so called big Three accountable for defense yet gave them near league leading minutes, and installed Wiggins with the scorer mentality. Wiggins never realized his potential under Thibs. He certainly is succeeding now. Thibs fkked up this franchise for several years and now we have a chance to get things going on the right track.

I said I'm all for free agency as well as the draft and if the Wolves can sign Lebron or Durant, great! We should have a max slot opening up in 2023 and Lebron hits free agency then.

Wiggins is now an all-star. Lavine is an All-star. Kat is an All-star. Jimmy is long gone after playing a year's game here. Bad trade in my opinion (and not just in hindsight) but if you have a different view, that's ok.

[Lipoli390]

First of all, I don't see any sensible, realistic trades that would land Anunoby. Second, as Q noted, a number of us coveted him in the draft. That was the pick Thibs used to select Justin Patton. We could have drafted Collins or Anunoby. I wanted either one in that order of preference.

[Monster]

First of all, I don't see any sensible, realistic trades that would land Anunoby. Second, as Q noted, a number of us coveted him in the draft. That was the pick Thibs used to select Justin Patton. We could have drafted Collins or Anunoby. I wanted either one in that order of preference.

LST really wanted Jarrett Allen. I'll be honest this board would have likely picked a better player with the trade down than if we stuck at 7. Many of us really liked Zach Collins and injuries have been a big problem and maybe he will stay healthy and fulfill some of his potential yet but it's hard to beat the players already mentioned. Markkenen who has been sort of the guy I predicted he would be and I wanted more has been more valuable. Maybe Lio would have just taken John Collins that high I can't remember! Lol completely missing on that later pick was really tough especially with all the good players left afterwards. Patton having those foot injuries was unforeseen (OG had legit injury issues and that has still been a problem for him) but selecting a good player with that pick would have changed the Wolves trajectory. Fortunately after everything the Wolves are in a position where they have assets and avenues to legitimately continue building a really good team and with Connelly on board I feel pretty confident he won't screw it up.

Wanna hear something wild? Hartenstein was picked by Houston in the 2nd round of that draft. That seems like a long time ago. Remember when Jordon Bell was gonna be the steal of the draft and many fans were upset their team didn't get him? Dude is out of the league and ended up not actually being good. Connelly screwed up the first round of that draft but picked Morris in the 2nd. The Lakers did well in later part of that draft they made a trade with Utah getting Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant #42 while Utah moved up 2 picks to select Tony Bradley. Lol the Lakers also picked Kyle Kuzma. So Utah absolutely nailed one trade up to get Mitchell and missed on another one.

[Lipoli390]

First of all, I don't see any sensible, realistic trades that would land Anunoby. Second, as Q noted, a number of us coveted him in the draft. That was the pick Thibs used to select Justin Patton. We could have drafted Collins or Anunoby. I wanted either one in that order of preference.

LST really wanted Jarrett Allen. I'll be honest this board would have likely picked a better player with the trade down than if we stuck at 7. Many of us really liked Zach Collins and injuries have been a big problem and maybe he will stay healthy and fulfill some of his potential yet but it's hard to beat the players already mentioned. Markkenen who has been sort of the guy I predicted he would be and I wanted more has been more valuable. Maybe Lio would have just taken John Collins that high I can't remember! Lol completely missing on that later pick was really tough especially with all the good players left afterwards. Patton having those foot injuries was unforeseen (OG had legit injury issues and that has still been a problem for him) but selecting a good player with that pick would have changed the Wolves trajectory. Fortunately after everything the Wolves are in a position where they have assets and avenues to legitimately continue building a really good team and with Connelly on board I feel pretty confident he won't screw it up.

Wanna hear something wild? Hartenstein was picked by Houston in the 2nd round of that draft. That seems like a long time ago. Remember when Jordon Bell was gonna be the steal of the draft and many fans were upset their team didn't get him? Dude is out of the league and ended up not actually being good. Connelly screwed up the first round of that draft but picked Morris in the 2nd. The Lakers did well in later part of that draft they made a trade with Utah getting Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant #42 while Utah moved up 2 picks to select Tony Bradley. Lol the Lakers also picked Kyle Kuzma. So Utah absolutely nailed one trade up to get Mitchell and missed on another one.

Great trip down memory lane, Monster. It's always fascinating to look back at past drafts and see what has since worked out and what hasn't. Even the best organizations screw things up, but what distinguishes them is that they get far more extra-base hits than strikeouts. The example you noted of Connelly screwing up the first round but nailing his second round pick with Morris is a great illustration of what the really good PBOs do. They whiff on one pick in a draft - maybe even the higher pick - but then nail their other pick. That's why like the idea of Connelly haven't picks 40, 48 and 50 in addition to 19. I don't expect him to make and keep four picks. But I can see him trading one of the 2nd round picks with #19 to move up a few slots in the first round, use another 2nd to take a young under-the-radar guy and then use the final pick for a Euro stash.

By the way, I hate to admit it, but I like Zach Collins a lot in that draft too. I can't remember for sure, but I think I would have taken Zach over John at #7 that year even though I loved John Collins.

[kekgeek]

First of all, I don't see any sensible, realistic trades that would land Anunoby. Second, as Q noted, a number of us coveted him in the draft. That was the pick Thibs used to select Justin Patton. We could have drafted Collins or Anunoby. I wanted either one in that order of preference.

LST really wanted Jarrett Allen. I'll be honest this board would have likely picked a better player with the trade down than if we stuck at 7. Many of us really liked Zach Collins and injuries have been a big problem and maybe he will stay healthy and fulfill some of his potential yet but it's hard to beat the players already mentioned. Markkenen who has been sort of the guy I predicted he would be and I wanted more has been more valuable. Maybe Lio would have just taken John Collins that high I can't remember! Lol completely missing on that later pick was really tough especially with all the good players left afterwards. Patton having those foot injuries was unforeseen (OG had legit injury issues and that has still been a problem for him) but selecting a good player with that pick would have changed the Wolves trajectory. Fortunately after everything the Wolves are in a position where they have assets and avenues to legitimately continue building a really good team and with Connelly on board I feel pretty confident he won't screw it up.

Wanna hear something wild? Hartenstein was picked by Houston in the 2nd round of that draft. That seems like a long time ago. Remember when Jordon Bell was gonna be the steal of the draft and many fans were upset their team didn't get him? Dude is out of the league and ended up not actually being good. Connelly screwed up the first round of that draft but picked Morris in the 2nd. The Lakers did well in later part of that draft they made a trade with Utah getting Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant #42 while Utah moved up 2 picks to select Tony Bradley. Lol the Lakers also picked Kyle Kuzma. So Utah absolutely nailed one trade up to get Mitchell and missed on another one.

Great trip down memory lane, Monster. It's always fascinating to look back at past drafts and see what has since worked out and what hasn't. Even the best organizations screw things up, but what distinguishes them is that they get far more extra-base hits than strikeouts. The example you noted of Connelly screwing up the first round but nailing his second round pick with Morris is a great illustration of what the really good PBOs do. They whiff on one pick in a draft - maybe even the higher pick - but then nail their other pick. That's why like the idea of Connelly haven't picks 40, 48 and 50 in addition to 19. I don't expect him to make and keep four picks. But I can see him trading one of the 2nd round picks with #19 to move up a few slots in the first round, use another 2nd to take a young under-the-radar guy and then use the final pick for a Euro stash.

By the way, I hate to admit it, but I like Zach Collins a lot in that draft too. I can't remember for sure, but I think I would have taken Zach over John at #7 that year even though I loved John Collins.

That is why the draft is the best and we have no idea what we are talking about in the long run. Like Rosas was called the village idiot after the Anthony Edward draft, now that draft might go down as the best wolves draft ever.

I loved the Derrick Williams pick at the time and he ended up being a "bust". I've hit on almost all the Kansas guys on how their career was going to turn out (love both Kansas wings this year).

Just overall the draft is the best even though we know nothing!! Haha