lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
As you might recall, I didn't like the DLO deal at the time based mainly on how much we gave up when there didn't appear to be any significant market for DLO. I still believe we gave up more than we needed to and, in that sense, I think we were fleeced. However, DLO has performed better than I thought he would. So if you hold everything else constant, I still think we were better off this season with DLO than we would have been with Wiggins and Kuminga. But it's a much closer call than I would have guessed at the beginning of the season given how well Wiggins and Kuminga have performed and considering the upside of Kuminga.
My thought at the time of the DLO deal, and I continue to believe this, is that the Wolves should have traded Wiggins that summer for a shorter-term contract that some other team was trying to unload so that the Wolves could have freed up cap space. My target at the time was Batum. I suspect that the Hornets would have swapped Batum for Wiggins and we might have received a 2nd-round pick as well. The end game would have been to use the additional space or Batum's expiring contract at the deadline to land a good PG - maybe Lonzo Ball. As it turned out, Batum still had gas in his tank so he would have actually helped the Wolves on the court.
I go back and forth on DLO. After the allstar break and through the play-in game, I was content with DLO and the deal to get him. But after watching him in the playoffs, it reminded me of the issues with him from time to time during the season and previously in his career. His inconsistency is maddening as are his careless turnovers. But I did like the way he defended this season and when his shooting is hot, he's a huge positive. And in the end, I can't envision a realistic DLO deal that would likely improve the team.
Hindsight is typically crystal clear. But interestingly, with DLO the picture remains murky.
Here is the thing though. Who knows if the Hornets wanted Wiggins who at the time was considered one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Wolves would of had to attach at least 1 possibly 2 1st round picks.
Then we go to cap space if the Hornets do that. Why would Lonzo want to play here at that time. Wolves would be shit at the time. Best Wolves FA signing ever was Teague based on pass success. Don't think lonzo is coming to the Wolves (wolves would needed to massively overpay). Realistically Rubio is the Wolves PG.
Also who knows if we trade for batum instead of Wolves might of ended up as the worst record and ended up with the starting lineup of
Rubio/ Beasley/Mcdaniels/Wiseman/Kat
That lineup could be somewhat realistic with the butterfly effect. Wolves would be deciding if we like Smith or Chet more and where should the Wolves trade Kat
It's an interesting tweet by Dane, and thought-provoking for 99% of us here. Put another way, two guys involved in the trade start for Golden State and make 15 out of 20 shots in Game 3 against a team we just lost to in the first round, and the guy we got back wasn't trusted enough by his coach to play in the 4th quarter of a critical Game 6. One game, to be sure, but still interesting to me.
I've said it before...despite relatively modest advanced stats on the season, I was a big supporter of DLO this season. He was one of my favorite Wolves during the regular season. But if we're going to be intellectually honest here, we have to admit the Wolves had extraordinarily good fortune in facing teams missing one or more of their best players in an unusually high number of games this season.. And again if we're going to be intellectually honest here, we have to agree that he was average at best in the playoffs against a healthy team. He had some good moments, but his play was not close to the level we saw during the regular season. We saw what Finchie saw...J-Mac was a better option at both ends of the court in game 6. As for me, I learn more about the value of a player under the bright lights in the playoffs against a team playing at full strength than I do if he puts up good numbers in regular season games against either mediocre or banged-up teams. I think that's why many here, even if they (like me) grew to like and appreciate DLO this season, think it would be best if we could move him this offseason. I hope Gupta can find a way, because I see that and a good draft as our two biggest priorities.
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
As you might recall, I didn't like the DLO deal at the time based mainly on how much we gave up when there didn't appear to be any significant market for DLO. I still believe we gave up more than we needed to and, in that sense, I think we were fleeced. However, DLO has performed better than I thought he would. So if you hold everything else constant, I still think we were better off this season with DLO than we would have been with Wiggins and Kuminga. But it's a much closer call than I would have guessed at the beginning of the season given how well Wiggins and Kuminga have performed and considering the upside of Kuminga.
My thought at the time of the DLO deal, and I continue to believe this, is that the Wolves should have traded Wiggins that summer for a shorter-term contract that some other team was trying to unload so that the Wolves could have freed up cap space. My target at the time was Batum. I suspect that the Hornets would have swapped Batum for Wiggins and we might have received a 2nd-round pick as well. The end game would have been to use the additional space or Batum's expiring contract at the deadline to land a good PG - maybe Lonzo Ball. As it turned out, Batum still had gas in his tank so he would have actually helped the Wolves on the court.
I go back and forth on DLO. After the allstar break and through the play-in game, I was content with DLO and the deal to get him. But after watching him in the playoffs, it reminded me of the issues with him from time to time during the season and previously in his career. His inconsistency is maddening as are his careless turnovers. But I did like the way he defended this season and when his shooting is hot, he's a huge positive. And in the end, I can't envision a realistic DLO deal that would likely improve the team.
Hindsight is typically crystal clear. But interestingly, with DLO the picture remains murky.
Here is the thing though. Who knows if the Hornets wanted Wiggins who at the time was considered one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Wolves would of had to attach at least 1 possibly 2 1st round picks.
Then we go to cap space if the Hornets do that. Why would Lonzo want to play here at that time. Wolves would be shit at the time. Best Wolves FA signing ever was Teague based on pass success. Don't think lonzo is coming to the Wolves (wolves would needed to massively overpay). Realistically Rubio is the Wolves PG.
Also who knows if we trade for batum instead of Wolves might of ended up as the worst record and ended up with the starting lineup of
Rubio/ Beasley/Mcdaniels/Wiseman/Kat
That lineup could be somewhat realistic with the butterfly effect. Wolves would be deciding if we like Smith or Chet more and where should the Wolves trade Kat
Batum's contract was just about as bad as Andrew's. At the time, Batum had become completely unproductive while Wiggins still put up significant numbers. Moreover, Batum was considered on the decline while Wiggins at least arguably had some upside at his age - something the Warriors obviously thought. So for the same annual salary, Wiggins was a much better value at the time. The only advantage Batum had over Wiggins was his shorter contract. So there's no way the Wolves would have had to give up a 1st round pick to facilitate dealing Wiggins for Batum -- perhaps a could of future 2nd-rounders, but not a 1st. We'll never know, but I think there was a reasonable Wiggins for Batum deal there for the taking. Rosas was obsessed with getting DLO as evidenced by the wining and dining he gave DLO when trying to recruit him as a free agent.
But yes, whenever you pull one thread in history, it can tug on other threads and you never know what the results will be. In truth, the Wolves should have traded Wiggins at least a year before he was actually traded. Thibs should have included him rather than LaVine in the deal for Butler. And in any event, my major issue with the Wiggins for DLO deal is how much the Wolves gave up. I remain convinced that the GS would have done the deal if the pick had been top-10 protected.
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.
I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.
I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?
Because Wiggins was a dog who lacked effort. For all of D'Lo's shortcomings, I can't question his effort night in and night out. This was also a franchise that did nothing to address this problem. There were many a night where his effort should have caused him to ride the bench and they never did, maybe to justify his contract or because the other options also sucked or really because they feared tuning him out completely. That stuff wears on teams. If we think KAT complaining about fouls every night wears on us as viewers, what do you think Wiggins jogging from FT line to FT line every game and not doing much was doing to us?
I'll also say this. If Wiggins is here, there's no Ant, and even if we messed around and drafted Kuminga anyway, he probably doesn't play much because we're still force feeding Wiggins 30+ minutes a night hoping he'll make good on his pinky swear.
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
As you might recall, I didn't like the DLO deal at the time based mainly on how much we gave up when there didn't appear to be any significant market for DLO. I still believe we gave up more than we needed to and, in that sense, I think we were fleeced. However, DLO has performed better than I thought he would. So if you hold everything else constant, I still think we were better off this season with DLO than we would have been with Wiggins and Kuminga. But it's a much closer call than I would have guessed at the beginning of the season given how well Wiggins and Kuminga have performed and considering the upside of Kuminga.
My thought at the time of the DLO deal, and I continue to believe this, is that the Wolves should have traded Wiggins that summer for a shorter-term contract that some other team was trying to unload so that the Wolves could have freed up cap space. My target at the time was Batum. I suspect that the Hornets would have swapped Batum for Wiggins and we might have received a 2nd-round pick as well. The end game would have been to use the additional space or Batum's expiring contract at the deadline to land a good PG - maybe Lonzo Ball. As it turned out, Batum still had gas in his tank so he would have actually helped the Wolves on the court.
I go back and forth on DLO. After the allstar break and through the play-in game, I was content with DLO and the deal to get him. But after watching him in the playoffs, it reminded me of the issues with him from time to time during the season and previously in his career. His inconsistency is maddening as are his careless turnovers. But I did like the way he defended this season and when his shooting is hot, he's a huge positive. And in the end, I can't envision a realistic DLO deal that would likely improve the team.
Hindsight is typically crystal clear. But interestingly, with DLO the picture remains murky.
Here is the thing though. Who knows if the Hornets wanted Wiggins who at the time was considered one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Wolves would of had to attach at least 1 possibly 2 1st round picks.
Then we go to cap space if the Hornets do that. Why would Lonzo want to play here at that time. Wolves would be shit at the time. Best Wolves FA signing ever was Teague based on pass success. Don't think lonzo is coming to the Wolves (wolves would needed to massively overpay). Realistically Rubio is the Wolves PG.
Also who knows if we trade for batum instead of Wolves might of ended up as the worst record and ended up with the starting lineup of
Rubio/ Beasley/Mcdaniels/Wiseman/Kat
That lineup could be somewhat realistic with the butterfly effect. Wolves would be deciding if we like Smith or Chet more and where should the Wolves trade Kat
Batum's contract was just about as bad as Andrew's. At the time, Batum had become completely unproductive while Wiggins still put up significant numbers. Moreover, Batum was considered on the decline while Wiggins at least arguably had some upside at his age - something the Warriors obviously thought. So for the same annual salary, Wiggins was a much better value at the time. The only advantage Batum had over Wiggins was his shorter contract. So there's no way the Wolves would have had to give up a 1st round pick to facilitate dealing Wiggins for Batum -- perhaps a could of future 2nd-rounders, but not a 1st. We'll never know, but I think there was a reasonable Wiggins for Batum deal there for the taking. Rosas was obsessed with getting DLO as evidenced by the wining and dining he gave DLO when trying to recruit him as a free agent.
But yes, whenever you pull one thread in history, it can tug on other threads and you never know what the results will be. In truth, the Wolves should have traded Wiggins at least a year before he was actually traded. Thibs should have included him rather than LaVine in the deal for Butler. And in any event, my major issue with the Wiggins for DLO deal is how much the Wolves gave up. I remain convinced that the GS would have done the deal if the pick had been top-10 protected.
Highly doubt they woulda made that deal. They stretched out Batum just to have money to go get Hayward who they always wanted (the irony is that Batum has become a solid 3 and D guy again on the Clippers at minimum value)
The ultimate regret comes from feeling like they needed to rush into giving Wiggins a max deal when he hadn't justified getting one, let alone that early.
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.
I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?
Couldn't agree more. A starting five of Bev/Ant/Wig/Vando/KAT would have been very formidable, and Kuminga would have been a great asset off the bench. Heck, he's now starting in the playoffs for a team that has a chance to be an NBA finalist! Two 2022 all-stars plus an exciting future all-star in Ant and a gritty winner like PatBev. Combine that with the unbelievable good fortune we had avoiding our opponents' best players, and 46 wins would have been achieved...probably more. And this is coming from a guy who thought DLO easily had his best season! But concluding that DLO is better than the 2022 version of Wig/Kuminga is a difficult argument to make.
Anyway, revisionist history. And we still had a very entertaining season!
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.
I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?
Because Wiggins was a dog who lacked effort. For all of D'Lo's shortcomings, I can't question his effort night in and night out. This was also a franchise that did nothing to address this problem. There were many a night where his effort should have caused him to ride the bench and they never did, maybe to justify his contract or because the other options also sucked or really because they feared tuning him out completely. That stuff wears on teams. If we think KAT complaining about fouls every night wears on us as viewers, what do you think Wiggins jogging from FT line to FT line every game and not doing much was doing to us?
I'll also say this. If Wiggins is here, there's no Ant, and even if we messed around and drafted Kuminga anyway, he probably doesn't play much because we're still force feeding Wiggins 30+ minutes a night hoping he'll make good on his pinky swear.
Well that dog just played in the all star game and is poised to be a key cog on a possible NBA champion. And to say DLO brings it every night is a fallacy. For one thing he's not on the court every night. Kerr obviously got to Wiggins and made him a better player, who's to say Finch couldn't have had a similar effect? Not only is Wig twice the defensive player, he's actually stepped up his game in the playoffs, whereas DLO shrank.
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.
I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?
Because Wiggins was a dog who lacked effort. For all of D'Lo's shortcomings, I can't question his effort night in and night out. This was also a franchise that did nothing to address this problem. There were many a night where his effort should have caused him to ride the bench and they never did, maybe to justify his contract or because the other options also sucked or really because they feared tuning him out completely. That stuff wears on teams. If we think KAT complaining about fouls every night wears on us as viewers, what do you think Wiggins jogging from FT line to FT line every game and not doing much was doing to us?
I'll also say this. If Wiggins is here, there's no Ant, and even if we messed around and drafted Kuminga anyway, he probably doesn't play much because we're still force feeding Wiggins 30+ minutes a night hoping he'll make good on his pinky swear.
Wild, I'm trying to understand why there would have been no Ant, and maybe I'm missing something. But I thought Wig and DLO were fairly comparable in their contributions in the pre-Ant year, so we would have had a commensurate record and still been in the lottery. I don't think you are saying we would have had a better record with Wig instead of DLO, and thus might have had fewer ping pong balls, are you? I don't think we would have been personally.
It's still just revisionist history and doesn't mean a damn thing...it's just fun to discuss in light of who made up 40% of the Warriors' starting lineup in a 30-point win!
lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.
The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.
Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.
As you might recall, I didn't like the DLO deal at the time based mainly on how much we gave up when there didn't appear to be any significant market for DLO. I still believe we gave up more than we needed to and, in that sense, I think we were fleeced. However, DLO has performed better than I thought he would. So if you hold everything else constant, I still think we were better off this season with DLO than we would have been with Wiggins and Kuminga. But it's a much closer call than I would have guessed at the beginning of the season given how well Wiggins and Kuminga have performed and considering the upside of Kuminga.
My thought at the time of the DLO deal, and I continue to believe this, is that the Wolves should have traded Wiggins that summer for a shorter-term contract that some other team was trying to unload so that the Wolves could have freed up cap space. My target at the time was Batum. I suspect that the Hornets would have swapped Batum for Wiggins and we might have received a 2nd-round pick as well. The end game would have been to use the additional space or Batum's expiring contract at the deadline to land a good PG - maybe Lonzo Ball. As it turned out, Batum still had gas in his tank so he would have actually helped the Wolves on the court.
I go back and forth on DLO. After the allstar break and through the play-in game, I was content with DLO and the deal to get him. But after watching him in the playoffs, it reminded me of the issues with him from time to time during the season and previously in his career. His inconsistency is maddening as are his careless turnovers. But I did like the way he defended this season and when his shooting is hot, he's a huge positive. And in the end, I can't envision a realistic DLO deal that would likely improve the team.
Hindsight is typically crystal clear. But interestingly, with DLO the picture remains murky.
Here is the thing though. Who knows if the Hornets wanted Wiggins who at the time was considered one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Wolves would of had to attach at least 1 possibly 2 1st round picks.
Then we go to cap space if the Hornets do that. Why would Lonzo want to play here at that time. Wolves would be shit at the time. Best Wolves FA signing ever was Teague based on pass success. Don't think lonzo is coming to the Wolves (wolves would needed to massively overpay). Realistically Rubio is the Wolves PG.
Also who knows if we trade for batum instead of Wolves might of ended up as the worst record and ended up with the starting lineup of
Rubio/ Beasley/Mcdaniels/Wiseman/Kat
That lineup could be somewhat realistic with the butterfly effect. Wolves would be deciding if we like Smith or Chet more and where should the Wolves trade Kat
Batum's contract was just about as bad as Andrew's. At the time, Batum had become completely unproductive while Wiggins still put up significant numbers. Moreover, Batum was considered on the decline while Wiggins at least arguably had some upside at his age - something the Warriors obviously thought. So for the same annual salary, Wiggins was a much better value at the time. The only advantage Batum had over Wiggins was his shorter contract. So there's no way the Wolves would have had to give up a 1st round pick to facilitate dealing Wiggins for Batum -- perhaps a could of future 2nd-rounders, but not a 1st. We'll never know, but I think there was a reasonable Wiggins for Batum deal there for the taking. Rosas was obsessed with getting DLO as evidenced by the wining and dining he gave DLO when trying to recruit him as a free agent.
But yes, whenever you pull one thread in history, it can tug on other threads and you never know what the results will be. In truth, the Wolves should have traded Wiggins at least a year before he was actually traded. Thibs should have included him rather than LaVine in the deal for Butler. And in any event, my major issue with the Wiggins for DLO deal is how much the Wolves gave up. I remain convinced that the GS would have done the deal if the pick had been top-10 protected.
There is simply too many scenarios that COULD have happened good, bad, neutral or whatever for me to torture myself with what if the Wolves never made the Wiggins Russell deal. I personally think one possible scenario the Wolves draft Ball instead of Edwards if they don't make that deal because they wouldn't have any long term PG. Not a bad outcome at all but I do prefer Edwards. I like Kuminga unlike some others I was impressed with his SL performance is Vegas. Still I have to see more before I'm gonna get too upset about not having him on the roster. It's too early.
Many times it's not the initial deal for both the player and the contract that can decide who "wins" or "loses" a trade. Look at the Grizzlies getting Jonas V and then signing him to a reasonable deal. Same with Orlando with WCJ. If the Wolves are able to sign Russell to a contract that accurately reflects his value and he plays at or above that value it could mean a win or a good outcome for them in the deal. If people think Russell will end up dropping off like Jeff Teague (seems somewhat unlikely since Russell is a volume 3 point threat) then yeah it's gonna be hard to feel good about the deal regardless. I'm still a bit surprised Teague dropped of when he did. It was a couple years early.
To me the reality is the Wolves have plenty of assets and resources to continue to build this roster. If they are able to keep making the types of moves they have the past 2 seasons we are gonna be just fine. As I mentioned before other teams (Phoenix and farther back Memphis) have shit the bed on moves and draft picks and other personnel moves including coaching and ended up putting together a really nice roster. This team probably isn't just 1 player away (unless they can add a future HOFer!) but it's not 1 player away from being 2 players away like it was for many years. It's time to move forward expecting the team to continue to add to the roster. There is plenty to be excited about for the future to be living in the past or should we start talking about passing up Steph Curry twice again?
