Wolves shopping Bennett

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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

khans2k5 wrote:Why should Bennett be the only young rotation player on the team not getting the same opportunity the other young guys are getting (i.e. starting and getting significant minutes) The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, so it totally makes sense to keep playing Bennett the same way that hasn't worked for 1.5 years. The playing versus backups argument is crap. How many guys get better by playing worse competition? You get better by playing better competition, learning why they are better and working to improve to get to their level. To be the best, you have to beat the best and Bennett doesn't even get to play the best. What about our current use of Bennett do you think could possibly turn the switch on in his head and help him turn it around? I don't see anything so I think it is time to try something else. It's too early to throw in the towel, but what we've been doing hasn't worked so it is time for something different in my opinion.



Once again, you are using flawed logic:

1 - He's not playing worse competition when the backups he's playing are actually playing better than him!

2 - If the idea of "the only way you get better is by playing better competition" is true, than why does baseball have a minor league system, why is there a tiered club system in European football, a junior varsity team in high school, etc., etc. ? Why do these systems of progressive levels of competition and skill exist if the best way to develop a player is to immediately put them on the A-Team? You are essentially suggesting that Bennett should bypass the natural progression process. I would agree with you if he was actually ready for it. But he hasn't demonstrated that he's ready (and neither did LaVine by the way, but that's a different story).

3 - Here is an option: Send him to the D-League. Why is that such a radical idea? Here is another option: Continue playing him off the bench and clearly outline the offseason goals he needs to achieve in order for us to pick up his option and give him a shot as our starter heading into training camp next year. Send him to summer league again too as a checkpoint on those goals. He needs to earn minutes, not be entitled to them.

4 - Playing him 16 MPG isn't "throwing in the towel". How is that giving up on a player? He's had pretty steady minutes all year.
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60WinTim
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by 60WinTim »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.




I let the Love comment go, in case I took it out of context.

I didn't see the connection either. Truth be told, Love didn't "earn" 30+ minutes until he forced Rambis/Kahn's hands with the infamous 30/30 outing vs. NY.

Umm, yeah. So, we are waiting for Bennett's 30/30 game...
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

60WinTim wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.




I let the Love comment go, in case I took it out of context.

I didn't see the connection either. Truth be told, Love didn't "earn" 30+ minutes until he forced Rambis/Kahn's hands with the infamous 30/30 outing vs. NY.

Umm, yeah. So, we are waiting for Bennett's 30/30 game...



Or, anything close to it. Half of it?

Love was clearly ready for more minutes. In fact, after sitting on the bench while Rambis ran with Ryan Hollins and Darko Milicic as starters... it was loooooooonnnnngggg overdue.

By the way, for all the heat Thad Young takes on this forum (I honestly can't remember a guy taking more heat than him) how would/did the board react to that duo starting?

Yikes.



[note: i do remember debating people about the merits of darko's "improvement" on the old boards though.]
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Q12543 wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:Why should Bennett be the only young rotation player on the team not getting the same opportunity the other young guys are getting (i.e. starting and getting significant minutes) The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, so it totally makes sense to keep playing Bennett the same way that hasn't worked for 1.5 years. The playing versus backups argument is crap. How many guys get better by playing worse competition? You get better by playing better competition, learning why they are better and working to improve to get to their level. To be the best, you have to beat the best and Bennett doesn't even get to play the best. What about our current use of Bennett do you think could possibly turn the switch on in his head and help him turn it around? I don't see anything so I think it is time to try something else. It's too early to throw in the towel, but what we've been doing hasn't worked so it is time for something different in my opinion.



Once again, you are using flawed logic:

1 - He's not playing worse competition when the backups he's playing are actually playing better than him!

2 - If the idea of "the only way you get better is by playing better competition" is true, than why does baseball have a minor league system, why is there a tiered club system in European football, a junior varsity team in high school, etc., etc. ? Why do these systems of progressive levels of competition and skill exist if the best way to develop a player is to immediately put them on the A-Team? You are essentially suggesting that Bennett should bypass the natural progression process. I would agree with you if he was actually ready for it. But he hasn't demonstrated that he's ready (and neither did LaVine by the way, but that's a different story).

3 - Here is an option: Send him to the D-League. Why is that such a radical idea? Here is another option: Continue playing him off the bench and clearly outline the offseason goals he needs to achieve in order for us to pick up his option and give him a shot as our starter heading into training camp next year. Send him to summer league again too as a checkpoint on those goals. He needs to earn minutes, not be entitled to them.

4 - Playing him 16 MPG isn't "throwing in the towel". How is that giving up on a player? He's had pretty steady minutes all year.


Several Wolves' sources have said AB's issues are ones of confidence, not talent. So Q's idea of sending him to the D-League seems to have a lot of merit. We have seen AB's explosive dunks and (early in the season, at least) his effective mid-range game. He could have a Muhammad-like experience if he spent a week or two D Leaguing. Flip could divide the PF minutes between Payne, KG (or Thad, if the deal doesn't happen) and Gorgui, and AB could come back for the last 15 games...hopefully with renewed confidence. I wonder why this hasn't been discussed.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.


Like Wiggins earned his starting spot...oh wait he was handed that spot without playing a game. Like Lavine earned the starting gig over Mo...oh wait Lavine had barely played to that point. Making guys earn minutes is fine pending you make everyone earn the minutes, but Flip handed starting jobs to two guys who either hadn't played a game yet or barely played at all to see what they could do. Why is Bennett put through a different standard?
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

khans2k5 wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.


Like Wiggins earned his starting spot...oh wait he was handed that spot without playing a game. Like Lavine earned the starting gig over Mo...oh wait Lavine had barely played to that point. Making guys earn minutes is fine pending you make everyone earn the minutes, but Flip handed starting jobs to two guys who either hadn't played a game yet or barely played at all to see what they could do. Why is Bennett put through a different standard?




Maybe the coach doesn't think he's a very good player.
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Phenom
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by Phenom »

khans2k5 wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.


Like Wiggins earned his starting spot...oh wait he was handed that spot without playing a game. Like Lavine earned the starting gig over Mo...oh wait Lavine had barely played to that point. Making guys earn minutes is fine pending you make everyone earn the minutes, but Flip handed starting jobs to two guys who either hadn't played a game yet or barely played at all to see what they could do. Why is Bennett put through a different standard?


Is it far fetched that Wiggins out played Budinger, Brewer, and Shabazz in training camp? How long should it take? When you know, you know.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.


Like Wiggins earned his starting spot...oh wait he was handed that spot without playing a game. Like Lavine earned the starting gig over Mo...oh wait Lavine had barely played to that point. Making guys earn minutes is fine pending you make everyone earn the minutes, but Flip handed starting jobs to two guys who either hadn't played a game yet or barely played at all to see what they could do. Why is Bennett put through a different standard?


Is it far fetched that Wiggins out played Budinger, Brewer, and Shabazz in training camp? How long should it take? When you know, you know.




Not to mention... there was some public relations reasons too.

If you just traded your All Star PF for the #1 pick in the draft, then sat that player behind Budinger, Brewer or Muhammad... you'd have a public relations disaster on your hands when you're already struggling to stay relevant and fill the arena.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.


Like Wiggins earned his starting spot...oh wait he was handed that spot without playing a game. Like Lavine earned the starting gig over Mo...oh wait Lavine had barely played to that point. Making guys earn minutes is fine pending you make everyone earn the minutes, but Flip handed starting jobs to two guys who either hadn't played a game yet or barely played at all to see what they could do. Why is Bennett put through a different standard?


Is it far fetched that Wiggins out played Budinger, Brewer, and Shabazz in training camp? How long should it take? When you know, you know.


Wiggins started because he was the number 1 pick in the draft who was the centerpiece of the Love trade. Not because he was better than our other wings. If anything the first 26 games told us was that he wasn't fully ready so I find it hard to believe he was clearly better than our other wings in training camp and practice. Wiggins started with the purpose of appeasing the fans after trading Love, not because he earned it.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Wolves shopping Bennett

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:
khans2k5 wrote:
60WinTim wrote:While I am not on the anti-Bennett bandwagon, I agree with Q -- a guy has to earn his minutes, and a lot of that is what they do in practice. I am reluctant to criticize Flip on his use of Bennett.

Someone was trying to compare Bennett and Love. Love earned his starting position. We have not seen that from Bennett.


Like Wiggins earned his starting spot...oh wait he was handed that spot without playing a game. Like Lavine earned the starting gig over Mo...oh wait Lavine had barely played to that point. Making guys earn minutes is fine pending you make everyone earn the minutes, but Flip handed starting jobs to two guys who either hadn't played a game yet or barely played at all to see what they could do. Why is Bennett put through a different standard?


Is it far fetched that Wiggins out played Budinger, Brewer, and Shabazz in training camp? How long should it take? When you know, you know.



Wiggins and Brewer started the season together, so Wiggins really only had to beat out Shabazz and Budinger. And Shabazz eventually played himself into the starting lineup (an example of a fellow 2nd year player earning his way into more minutes - how novel!).

And let's not forget, for as raw as Wiggins was offensively to start the year, he was probably our best perimeter defender at the time. So unlike Bennett and LaVine, he at least brought one NBA-ready skill to the table.

As for the double-standard between LaVine and Bennett, that's actually a good point. I blame Flip. Clearly he wanted to experiment with the shiny new toy he purchased in LaVine, whereas Bennett was someone another GM drafted and Flip took as a "throw in" to the Love trade. That being said, two wrongs don't make a right......
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