Camden wrote:I thought I heard our broadcast team say that Wiggins had played the most minutes in the NBA since January 1st. Can anyone confirm or deny that? Perhaps I heard incorrectly? If that's true, wow, Flip needs to pull him back a bit.
I'd rather see him sit than be frozen out of the offense. That was just strange.
This was a tough loss to swallow. I know some will go for some moral victory that we hang in there and we will get more ping pong balls etc.. but i want us to learn to win games.
Wiggins needs to get more involved. From what I have seen, He moves without the ball, crashes the boards. Get to a spot that wont hurt the spacing of the offense and run the break. Its just that he is the 5th option there with rubio dominating the ball and pek, thad and martin getting the plays run for them. I dont know what more wiggins can do out there outside of leaking on the break that will get him more shots.
worldK wrote:This was a tough loss to swallow. I know some will go for some moral victory that we hang in there and we will get more ping pong balls etc.. but i want us to learn to win games.
Wiggins needs to get more involved. From what I have seen, He moves without the ball, crashes the boards. Get to a spot that wont hurt the spacing of the offense and run the break. Its just that he is the 5th option there with rubio dominating the ball and pek, thad and martin getting the plays run for them. I dont know what more wiggins can do out there outside of leaking on the break that will get him more shots.
You're right World. And reading your post has me even angrier. And you know who the biggest culprit is? It's Ricky. Andrew seems at least mildly more involved when someone else is running the offense. Flip has to wake up.
Camden wrote:I thought I heard our broadcast team say that Wiggins had played the most minutes in the NBA since January 1st. Can anyone confirm or deny that? Perhaps I heard incorrectly? If that's true, wow, Flip needs to pull him back a bit.
Cam, that is indeed correct. Wiggins is first, followed by Lillard, and then Wall. I agree that Flip needs to back off a bit.
Camden wrote:I thought I heard our broadcast team say that Wiggins had played the most minutes in the NBA since January 1st. Can anyone confirm or deny that? Perhaps I heard incorrectly? If that's true, wow, Flip needs to pull him back a bit.
Cam, that is indeed correct. Wiggins is first, followed by Lillard, and then Wall. I agree that Flip needs to back off a bit.
How much wear and tear did he get in the 4th? That was no different than walking around the mall with his teenage friends.
worldK wrote:This was a tough loss to swallow. I know some will go for some moral victory that we hang in there and we will get more ping pong balls etc.. but i want us to learn to win games.
Wiggins needs to get more involved. From what I have seen, He moves without the ball, crashes the boards. Get to a spot that wont hurt the spacing of the offense and run the break. Its just that he is the 5th option there with rubio dominating the ball and pek, thad and martin getting the plays run for them. I dont know what more wiggins can do out there outside of leaking on the break that will get him more shots.
You're right World. And reading your post has me even angrier. And you know who the biggest culprit is? It's Ricky. Andrew seems at least mildly more involved when someone else is running the offense. Flip has to wake up.
Yeah cool. Rubio needs to do a better job and develop better chemistry with wiggins. They are the future of the team. It looks like rubio has very good chemistry with both martin and pek. Rubio always look to set up martin. Rubio has played a ton with martin and pek though and very little with wiggins so its understandable that he knows those two more. But I hope he develop that chemistry with wiggins sooner.
Wiggins has shown improvement moving without the ball but take into consideration he is playing with 3 new guys in the starting lineup in pek, rubio and martin lately. Im willing to give it more time for them to figure out how to get wiggins going but it sure as hell been frustrating watching him being the 5th option out there.
I was at the game. I may do a full game report tomorrow.
But for now, I want to clear something up. The problem with Wiggins tonight was Wiggins -- not Ricky or anyone else. Wiggins was NOT moving without the ball. He would find a spot in the offense and stand there, sometimes moving to another spot. When he moved, his movements were casual and his "cuts" round and lazy. He'd watch from his corner perch as his teammates put up shots but would make no attempt to crash the boards for a putback attempt. And his body language was terrible. it was a repeat of his play and attitude the second half of the Atlanta game. Some or maybe a lot of it might be pure physical and mental fatigue from all the minutes Flip has played him. That part's on Flip. But what I've seen from Wiggins the past 6 quarters isn't acceptable from someone looked upon as a cornerstone of this franchise. He had a reputation for passivity coming out of college and that's a demon in his character that has to be exorcised if he's going to become an elite player.
Regarding Ricky, as Flip said, Ricky's still effectively in training camp and doesn't fully have his legs under him yet, so he's struggled a bit the last couple games. But he was a gamer tonight as he nearly led the Wolves to an improbably win with a 4th quarter comeback.
Thad was terrific tonight. Another guy, like Ricky, who you can count on for effort. Pek also played well and gave a great effort. I'm surprised by the criticism of Martin tonight. He was the main reason we had a chance to win tonight. He put points on the board and surprisingly did a nice job defending Thompson.
The main problems with the team tonight were the abysmal passive play of Wiggins and the lack of production from our bench. I like seeing LaVine get minutes, but I don't understand why Flip didn't have Brown in there as our second unit's PG with LaVine at SG and Shabazz at SF. Why he played Chase mystifies me.
As for Payne, the bad news is that he looks a bit fat. But perhaps he could have given us some long-range shooting and scoring off the bench tonight.
Dieng looked horrible tonight. The more I see of him, the more apparent how far he has to go to be a good player in this League. If I could swap him for Gobert or Whiteside I'd do it in a heartbeat.
But the good news is that the Wolves almost beat what might be the best team in the West. Almost beat the Warriors even though Ricky's not back at full strength and more than half our starters (Martin, Pek, and Ricky) haven't played together for 3 months. Wiggins needs some rest and an infusion of some of Shabazz's toughness, aggressiveness and intensity. LaVine needs to play SG rather than PG. I still see the Wolves winning at least 10 games the rest of the way. I just to see Wiggins back on the path to greatness.
I don't know, guys...I just finished reading the GDT after fast forwarding through last night's game, and I'm having a difficult time understanding the gloom and doom in most of the posts in this thread. This is what I saw:
1) We lost to a top 3 team in the league, and had a chance to beat them if Pek could have converted an easy layup.
2) Our defensive intensity was impressive, especially Ricky and two much-maligned guys...Thad Young and Kevin Martin. A cynic might conclude that Green, Curry and Thompson just had a poor shooting night, but I think our defense had a big role in it...many more contested shots than I have seen this season. Rubio worked his ass off, fighting through screens rather than ducking under, and Young and Martin were consistently active.
3) Kevin Marin continues to be our most reliable scorer, and is terrific offensively when he works hard on offense. I'm relieved when Flip dismisses any talk of him being available to trade.
4) Rubio continues to look confident with his shot, and the results were there again tonight. Steals and rebounds were also impressive. His 5 assists in the box score look substandard, but Pek might have cost him 5 more alone by missing layups. Without looking at the box, I would have thought Ricky had a triple double. Lip is right that this is still preseason for him after his long layoff...I'm excited to see how he's going to produce when he is in mid-season form.
To be sure there were several negatives last night too. The bench was terrible...how in the hell did we take GS down to the wire with the bench shooting 1-17???? Pek is clearly hurt...the TV crew showed him grimacing a few times. but he still needs to make those easy shots. Wiggins might need the All Star break more than anyone. His lack of production was not the fault of the offense...he didn't work hard enough tonight to get open. It's clear to me that he has hit the rookie wall, and that Flip needed to give more of his minutes to Shabazz last night.
But all in all, this game was yet another example of how good this team is with Rubio on the court. He didn't seem to favor his ankle at all tonight, and Flip rewarded him with 32 minutes...looks like the minutes restriction is history. Overall, a very solid, entertaining game, and very encouraging for the rest of the season.
I see at least one poster railing about Wiggins not getting the ball.
The Wolves played the league's best defensive team. They are loaded with rangy defenders and a great defensive scheme. Wiggins is a rookie who's still learning how to play in the NBA in some ways. It might be easier to take him out of the game than some might realize.
We can blame everybody but Wiggins. Or, give credit to a really good fucking team just a little bit, too.
