Camden0916 wrote:This will be the first season in a while where the team doesn't have to hope and pray for nightly production out of one of their highest paid players. Andrew Wiggins is gone and replaced by a more consistent, better contributor in D'Angelo Russell. That alone will make a significant difference over the course of an 82-game season. Now, not all of the woes Minnesota has were Wiggins' fault, but I think the current building blocks will mesh much better with each other and create more of that "gravitational pull" than previous duos we've had therefore making it easier to compliment them with other pieces.
Will this core ever become a title contender? Not without some key moves along the way, but I think they should be a legit playoff team more often than not.
Love the optimism. Do you think this year? I think they are still quite lacking with their wings, makes it hard for me to see a playoff team in that. I hope you're right though.
This year would be the season I'm least confident in for the future of this core for the same reason you pointed out. I don't love our situation at the wing positions. I think Malik Beasley is probably best-suited to be a sixth man on a good team, but he's likely to be our starter. I think Josh Okogie is nothing more than a solid rotation player albeit with possible defensive accolades in his future. I think Jarrett Culver is very similar to Okogie in that regard, though he plays under more control. That also means he can't muck up a game like Okogie can, for better and for worse.
That's also why I would not shy away from a Buddy Hield trade. Or a Luke Kennard. Or a Kevin Huerter. But I also wouldn't overpay for those guys either, obviously.
I believe that Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell can carry an offense between themselves. They're that skilled, in my opinion. But right now, as of today, I don't think there's enough complimentary pieces around them. There isn't that defensive big. There isn't a reliable 3/D wing or two. There isn't that spark plug scorer off the bench. The good thing is that those pieces are more attainable than an All-Star and the Wolves objectively have two to work with for the foreseeable future.
Yeah this draft is huge either from our selections or potential trades. Imagine if we hit it and actually got some talent that could push us over that threshold? I think your trajectory for Towns and Russell is probably accurate if they stay. The real question is how much uglier can the situation get if we have another year missing the playoffs. The patience is harder to come by in today's league if there isn't marked progress with winning. Big offseason and year ahead for the Wolves, with a potential sale I really think the future sustainability of this franchise in Minnesota is ultimately at stake not to get too dark and depressing.
If we were going to blow it up, it would have much better to do so before we traded away our 2021 first round pick. I don't think a roster full of one way players has a very high ceiling, and the only hope I see for a serious title contending team to emerge is for Culver to figure out how to shoot (he did impress with his defense) and Rosas to nail this year's draft pick. Any hope in the Rosas regime is predicated on two low probability events, and if Culver doesn't become much better than Okogie 2.0 and Rosas doesn't walk away with a two way star or at least one of the top players from this year's draft, I will be onboard with a full rebuild as soon as Rosas is canned.
KG4Ever wrote:If we were going to blow it up, it would have much better to do so before we traded away our 2021 first round pick. I don't think a roster full of one way players has a very high ceiling, and the only hope I see for a serious title contending team to emerge is for Culver to figure out how to shoot (he did impress with his defense) and Rosas to nail this year's draft pick. Any hope in the Rosas regime is predicated on two low probability events, and if Culver doesn't become much better than Okogie 2.0 and Rosas doesn't walk away with a two way star or at least one of the top players from this year's draft, I will be onboard with a full rebuild as soon as Rosas is canned.
Sometimes guys emerge from unexpected places. We have a number of young irons in the fire, any one of which could take a big leap (especially if this were Miami and not Minnesota!).
I think Jarred Vanderbilt and Jaylen Nowell have just as much of a chance to potentially make a big impact as Culver.....or not. I guess my point is I wouldn't single out Culver or our draft pick as "the key".
#1 pick or trade
#17 pick or trade
Culver
Okogie
Vanderbilt
Nowell
We only need one or two of these guys to really pop along with a healthy DLO and KAT to put together a competitive squad. I'm not necessarily optimistic, but hoping for the best....
KG4Ever wrote:If we were going to blow it up, it would have much better to do so before we traded away our 2021 first round pick. I don't think a roster full of one way players has a very high ceiling, and the only hope I see for a serious title contending team to emerge is for Culver to figure out how to shoot (he did impress with his defense) and Rosas to nail this year's draft pick. Any hope in the Rosas regime is predicated on two low probability events, and if Culver doesn't become much better than Okogie 2.0 and Rosas doesn't walk away with a two way star or at least one of the top players from this year's draft, I will be onboard with a full rebuild as soon as Rosas is canned.
Sometimes guys emerge from unexpected places. We have a number of young irons in the fire, any one of which could take a big leap (especially if this were Miami and not Minnesota!).
I think Jarred Vanderbilt and Jaylen Nowell have just as much of a chance to potentially make a big impact as Culver.....or not. I guess my point is I wouldn't single out Culver or our draft pick as "the key".
#1 pick or trade
#17 pick or trade
Culver
Okogie
Vanderbilt
Nowell
We only need one or two of these guys to really pop along with a healthy DLO and KAT to put together a competitive squad. I'm not necessarily optimistic, but hoping for the best....
I get what you are saying, but I don't see Nowell, Vanderbilt or Okogie having any better chance of emerging into an elite two way player than someone we could draft at 17 or 33 in this year's draft or a diamond in the rough free agent signee. Given that the Wolves have never had a single second round draft pick or undrafted free agent end up being a star, I won't assume things change now. While Jordan McLaughlin has a chance to be a good player, I just don't see him becoming a foundational star.
Another concern about Rosas is that he seems to be hellbent to try to recreate Houston without the benefit of Harden and I fear he will bypass good opportunities to add some much needed rim protection. While I am trying to keep an open mind, I'm admittedly not very optimistic.
KG4Ever wrote:If we were going to blow it up, it would have much better to do so before we traded away our 2021 first round pick. I don't think a roster full of one way players has a very high ceiling, and the only hope I see for a serious title contending team to emerge is for Culver to figure out how to shoot (he did impress with his defense) and Rosas to nail this year's draft pick. Any hope in the Rosas regime is predicated on two low probability events, and if Culver doesn't become much better than Okogie 2.0 and Rosas doesn't walk away with a two way star or at least one of the top players from this year's draft, I will be onboard with a full rebuild as soon as Rosas is canned.
Sometimes guys emerge from unexpected places. We have a number of young irons in the fire, any one of which could take a big leap (especially if this were Miami and not Minnesota!).
I think Jarred Vanderbilt and Jaylen Nowell have just as much of a chance to potentially make a big impact as Culver.....or not. I guess my point is I wouldn't single out Culver or our draft pick as "the key".
#1 pick or trade
#17 pick or trade
Culver
Okogie
Vanderbilt
Nowell
We only need one or two of these guys to really pop along with a healthy DLO and KAT to put together a competitive squad. I'm not necessarily optimistic, but hoping for the best....
I get what you are saying, but I don't see Nowell, Vanderbilt or Okogie having any better chance of emerging into an elite two way player than someone we could draft at 17 or 33 in this year's draft or a diamond in the rough free agent signee. Given that the Wolves have never had a single second round draft pick or undrafted free agent end up being a star, I won't assume things change now. While Jordan McLaughlin has a chance to be a good player, I just don't see him becoming a foundational star.
Another concern about Rosas is that he seems to be hellbent to try to recreate Houston without the benefit of Harden and I fear he will bypass good opportunities to add some much needed rim protection. While I am trying to keep an open mind, I'm admittedly not very optimistic.
KG4Ever wrote:If we were going to blow it up, it would have much better to do so before we traded away our 2021 first round pick. I don't think a roster full of one way players has a very high ceiling, and the only hope I see for a serious title contending team to emerge is for Culver to figure out how to shoot (he did impress with his defense) and Rosas to nail this year's draft pick. Any hope in the Rosas regime is predicated on two low probability events, and if Culver doesn't become much better than Okogie 2.0 and Rosas doesn't walk away with a two way star or at least one of the top players from this year's draft, I will be onboard with a full rebuild as soon as Rosas is canned.
Sometimes guys emerge from unexpected places. We have a number of young irons in the fire, any one of which could take a big leap (especially if this were Miami and not Minnesota!).
I think Jarred Vanderbilt and Jaylen Nowell have just as much of a chance to potentially make a big impact as Culver.....or not. I guess my point is I wouldn't single out Culver or our draft pick as "the key".
#1 pick or trade
#17 pick or trade
Culver
Okogie
Vanderbilt
Nowell
We only need one or two of these guys to really pop along with a healthy DLO and KAT to put together a competitive squad. I'm not necessarily optimistic, but hoping for the best....
I get what you are saying, but I don't see Nowell, Vanderbilt or Okogie having any better chance of emerging into an elite two way player than someone we could draft at 17 or 33 in this year's draft or a diamond in the rough free agent signee. Given that the Wolves have never had a single second round draft pick or undrafted free agent end up being a star, I won't assume things change now. While Jordan McLaughlin has a chance to be a good player, I just don't see him becoming a foundational star.
Another concern about Rosas is that he seems to be hellbent to try to recreate Houston without the benefit of Harden and I fear he will bypass good opportunities to add some much needed rim protection. While I am trying to keep an open mind, I'm admittedly not very optimistic.
Mmmm, may be my bar is lower than yours. I don't think we need any of these guys to develop into an "elite 2-way player" for us to be a competitive team next season. My definition of competitive is ~ .500 ball. While that might be the definition of mediocrity, it would be a major improvement over last season and demonstrate tangible progress.
I do agree that ultimately we'd probably need an elite 2-way wing if we were ever to have a hope of contending with KAT and DLO. I just want to see the team win half their games, then start worrying about next steps.
Camden0916 wrote:This will be the first season in a while where the team doesn't have to hope and pray for nightly production out of one of their highest paid players. Andrew Wiggins is gone and replaced by a more consistent, better contributor in D'Angelo Russell. That alone will make a significant difference over the course of an 82-game season. Now, not all of the woes Minnesota has were Wiggins' fault, but I think the current building blocks will mesh much better with each other and create more of that "gravitational pull" than previous duos we've had therefore making it easier to compliment them with other pieces.
Will this core ever become a title contender? Not without some key moves along the way, but I think they should be a legit playoff team more often than not.
Love the optimism. Do you think this year? I think they are still quite lacking with their wings, makes it hard for me to see a playoff team in that. I hope you're right though.
This year would be the season I'm least confident in for the future of this core for the same reason you pointed out. I don't love our situation at the wing positions. I think Malik Beasley is probably best-suited to be a sixth man on a good team, but he's likely to be our starter. I think Josh Okogie is nothing more than a solid rotation player albeit with possible defensive accolades in his future. I think Jarrett Culver is very similar to Okogie in that regard, though he plays under more control. That also means he can't muck up a game like Okogie can, for better and for worse.
That's also why I would not shy away from a Buddy Hield trade. Or a Luke Kennard. Or a Kevin Huerter. But I also wouldn't overpay for those guys either, obviously.
I believe that Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell can carry an offense between themselves. They're that skilled, in my opinion. But right now, as of today, I don't think there's enough complimentary pieces around them. There isn't that defensive big. There isn't a reliable 3/D wing or two. There isn't that spark plug scorer off the bench. The good thing is that those pieces are more attainable than an All-Star and the Wolves objectively have two to work with for the foreseeable future.
Another way to look at Wiggins is him being basically replaced by Beasley. I think Wiggins is less bad as a defender but Beasley likely helps the offense more. Meanwhile Russell has the potential to be a big factor when it comes to the offense as the lead guard.
You have to try to build around towns and russel first before thinking anout trading them. They are 2 elite offensive players that can carry your team on that end. Try to surround them with elite role players and another star if possible and see what happens.
We have some specialty guys on the roster now with okogie and culver on defense and beasley shooting 3s. If those 3 can be elite consistently in those roles then that would be huge. We
need to nail this pick and significantly improve the forward positions then we are in good shape with towns and dlo as the 2 stars.
A team to look to for potential success without wings are the Trailblazers. They have been a consistent playoff team because of an All-Star backcourt and some skilled big men. They've been able to get away with not having all-star wings and while they've never really been contenders they've been a consistent playoff team and even made a couple second rounds with league average wing play. Russell and Towns, if they are the real deal, should be able to pull off similar success with this team around them. If we aren't competitive for a bottom 4 playoff seed this year it's time to dump Towns. I'm open to keeping Russell because his skill set is something that you can build a good team around more so than a big who can't defend. There aren't many all-star caliber primary ball handling scorers floating around ready to be acquired so I'd hang on to him and see what I could build with the assets from KAT's trade.
khans2k5 wrote:A team to look to for potential success without wings are the Trailblazers. They have been a consistent playoff team because of an All-Star backcourt and some skilled big men. They've been able to get away with not having all-star wings and while they've never really been contenders they've been a consistent playoff team and even made a couple second rounds with league average wing play. Russell and Towns, if they are the real deal, should be able to pull off similar success with this team around them. If we aren't competitive for a bottom 4 playoff seed this year it's time to dump Towns. I'm open to keeping Russell because his skill set is something that you can build a good team around more so than a big who can't defend. There aren't many all-star caliber primary ball handling scorers floating around ready to be acquired so I'd hang on to him and see what I could build with the assets from KAT's trade.
In the event that the Wolves did decide to trade Karl-Anthony Towns, I'd imagine they could put together a competent team with the pieces acquired from that deal plus D'Angelo Russell. That is an even easier transition if James Wiseman is able to simply slide in the center spot full-time.
In a way, Wiseman provides some insurance should Towns get traded.
