Pacers are looking to rebuild

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm not interested in a trade right now because I'm still now sure what we have here.

A halfway decent sub .500 team with glaring holes on the roster.

"halfway decent sub .500"...mmmmm. I think what you are saying is that we are halfway decent by Wolves standards, i.e. we don't have a draft lottery thread up and running yet! In any event, I actually agree with your phrasing, but it would only make sense to a Wolves fan!

As to Lip's point, I also kind of agree. Sabonis is what he is. Turner is what he is. LeVert is what he is. We still have the hope of youth in the likes of Edwards, McDaniels, Vando, and Leo. One can take a dim view of this hope and therefore demand change now. Or one can reserve judgement and see if this group along with the vets can grow into the season more.

I think our front office is probably aligned with Lip for now and I don't see us making any near-term moves.

[DNatagal]

The article says they are ready to tear the team down to the studs, not reload for another run at the championship. The Pacers are over the cap currently. If they go the complete implosion/OKC route, you want cheap contracts and lots of picks. I could see Naz and McDaniels plus 2 first round picks, but I do not know how the cap space stuff works for trades. I believe the Pacers need to take back salary to make the trade work. Beasley could be flipped to contender for more picks and youth (or part of a 3 way trade right away). It really depends on how the Pacers want to go about improving their future chances at being a true contender instead of playoff only team.

[FNG]

I'm not interested in a trade right now because I'm still now sure what we have here.

A halfway decent sub .500 team with glaring holes on the roster.

I would add "entertaining" and "improved defensively" to that description, but otherwise I agree. Q's comment yesterday seems to be quite prescient...it looks like we are a .500 team when we are exceptionally healthy, but not very resilient to injury and worse than .500 when key players are out. That's not good enough for me, so I would like to see Gupta actively pursuing deals right now. And the Indy rumor may be an opportunity to make some changes that can turn us into a playoff team.

Right now we are 11-13, and given past Wolves teams, we should be happy with that record. But we have been unusually healthy and our schedule has been friendly, so most of us would have expected a better record at this stage. Now take a look at the brutal December and January schedule. I see us going 3-8 the rest of December and probably not better than 4-11 in January, which would leave us at 18-32 by the end of January. The schedule eases up then, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us finish the season strong...again. But again out of the playoffs.

I want more than another lottery finish. I hope Gupta jumps on the Indy rumor and offers Naz, Beas and second rounders for Turner. Turner/KAT/Ant/DLo/Pat could be an impressive defensive team. (Obvious disclaimer...our bench could be pretty bad).

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Man, that's a hot take right there. Minnesota went 3-2 in October and 8-8 in November with significant wins over multiple playoff teams, but then they're just going to fall off a cliff the next couple of months? 7-19 from now until February 1st? That's pretty unlikely unless you can see the future and it involves Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell missing significant time. Very puzzling indeed...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Man, that's a hot take right there. Minnesota went 3-2 in October and 8-8 in November with significant wins over multiple playoff teams, but then they're just going to fall off a cliff the next couple of months? 7-19 from now until February 1st? That's pretty unlikely unless you can see the future and it involves Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell missing significant time. Very puzzling indeed...

You can keep whistling in the wind Cam, but the reality is we're 11-13 right now with the toughest stretch still in front of us, not behind us. At the same time, we have no less than four or five rotation guys listed as Questionable for tonight.

I think someone can make a good faith argument that it's entirely possible we go 7-19 in the upcoming stretch. Building in some level of injuries, even if not the devastating variety, is not unreasonable.

[FNG]

The good news is PatBev could be back as early as tonight...a much quicker return than I would have expected with that type of injury. (Relevant since this seems to have morphed into a "state of the Wolves" thread). And while Finch's words seem to indicate DLo is out tonight, I expect him back soon with what appears to be a minor ankle tweak. We can only hope that KAT's wincing on the court last game doesn't mean he isn't really ready to play.

Still, December and January look as brutal as any stretch I've ever seen the Wolves play. I'd love to see them stay almost totally healthy during this stretch, because they have shown they can be competitive against even good teams when they are. But history shouldn't make us too optimistic about the health of our starting backcourt, and while I like Lea, he doesn't seem ready to contribute on the offensive end yet.

December and January are so key to finding out who exactly this team is, we should consider firing up a wins prediction thread for the two month stretch.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Man, that's a hot take right there. Minnesota went 3-2 in October and 8-8 in November with significant wins over multiple playoff teams, but then they're just going to fall off a cliff the next couple of months? 7-19 from now until February 1st? That's pretty unlikely unless you can see the future and it involves Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell missing significant time. Very puzzling indeed...

You can keep whistling in the wind Cam, but the reality is we're 11-13 right now with the toughest stretch still in front of us, not behind us. At the same time, we have no less than four or five rotation guys listed as Questionable for tonight.

I think someone can make a good faith argument that it's entirely possible we go 7-19 in the upcoming stretch. Building in some level of injuries, even if not the devastating variety, is not unreasonable.

Whistling in the wind? You're joking. It really wasn't that long ago the team was 4-9 and some on the board had thrown in the towel. The same few declared this another lost season. What happened? The Wolves promptly won seven out of eight games because they're a very talented group. We know this team can compete against just about any team. They've secured wins against some of the better teams in the league along the way. They were literally a couple clutch makes/stops from beating the Nets on their home court without Karl-Anthony Towns. We know what they're capable of by now.

This is the situation I discussed several game threads ago as we were heading into December. I cautioned against this sort of reaction. Minnesota loses a couple of games and it's irrational doom and gloom around here once again. I just think it's played out. 7-19 only happens if Towns or D'Angelo Russell are sidelined for that long. If you have a crystal ball that indicates that, then please let me know.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Man, that's a hot take right there. Minnesota went 3-2 in October and 8-8 in November with significant wins over multiple playoff teams, but then they're just going to fall off a cliff the next couple of months? 7-19 from now until February 1st? That's pretty unlikely unless you can see the future and it involves Karl-Anthony Towns or D'Angelo Russell missing significant time. Very puzzling indeed...

You can keep whistling in the wind Cam, but the reality is we're 11-13 right now with the toughest stretch still in front of us, not behind us. At the same time, we have no less than four or five rotation guys listed as Questionable for tonight.

I think someone can make a good faith argument that it's entirely possible we go 7-19 in the upcoming stretch. Building in some level of injuries, even if not the devastating variety, is not unreasonable.

Whistling in the wind? You're joking. It really wasn't that long ago the team was 4-9 and some on the board had thrown in the towel. The same few declared this another lost season. What happened? The Wolves promptly won seven out of eight games because they're a very talented group. We know this team can compete against just about any team. They've secured wins against some of the better teams in the league along the way. They were literally a couple clutch makes/stops from beating the Nets on their home court without Karl-Anthony Towns. We know what they're capable of by now.

This is the situation I discussed several game threads ago as we were heading into December. I cautioned against this sort of reaction. Minnesota loses a couple of games and it's irrational doom and gloom around here once again. I just think it's played out. 7-19 only happens if Towns or D'Angelo Russell are sidelined for that long. If you have a crystal ball that indicates that, then please let me know.

I think we'll do better than 7-19 during that stretch too, but I do think it's what I would call within the range of being rational when you include all possible variables (competition, road games, injuries, etc.). There is certainly room for a rational more optimistic take too.

[FNG]

Cam, I guess it depends on our respective definitions of "gloom and doom". If we win 35 games, that's a 12 win increase over last year (or 9 wins or 35% more wins if you normalize last year to 82 games). Only a handful of teams will have 35% more wins this year than last, and being in that group doesn't strike me as gloom and doom. Many of us here think Rosas made some key mistakes which have left us with an unbalanced roster ill-equipped to be much more than a .500 club, so based on the roster Chris Finch was given, I'll be happy with a 35% increase in wins...that's improvement. We have celebrated the improved defense, but lamented the lack of ball movement and also expressed concerns about not getting to .500 despite unusually great health and a favorable schedule. And we've pointed out that a road game against a playoff team (and we have plenty of those coming up the next two months) is a tougher assignment than a home game against Houston (although they are surprisingly resurgent recently.

But one thing I think we can all agree on...the next two months will determine if this roster is good enough. I'll start a thread.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

FNG, with all due respect, you're forecasting the Wolves to be 18-32 (.360) through 50 games, or before February 1st. That's a 30-win pace for the year. You're projecting them to be no better than 7-19 over that stretch. That is what I'd consider to be highly pessimistic and pretty irrational given where the team is right now and what they've shown already.

I also think you're overrating the difficulty of the schedule in January. There are six games (LAC, GS, BRK, GS, PHX, UTA) where the Wolves will be significant underdogs. The other nine are games Minnesota will either be favored in or close to even odds. That's not exactly a death sentence for the season.