If Collins isn't the guy to throw money at..

[Porckchop]

What player at his tier or better is realistic? If you don't want him for this 8 win team than who? And if you think a top 3 pick is unlikely than what are your hopes for getting better? Improvement from Okogie and Culver seem out the window. Nowell, McDaniel and Reid are nice bench players, maybe even a little more with experience. But they ain't moving this team from the cellar. Someone mentioned how Aaron Gordon is 7 years in and he is what he is. And I agree. But Towns is 6 years in. Is next year the season that he elevates the players around him plus takes his own play to the next level? I'm just not sure where this team goes from here without hitting on that lottery pick next year.

[Coolbreeze44]

Without some significant luck, our hopes for getting better hinge on the development of our young players. The DLO trade hamstrung us in multiple ways. And unless we can send DLO out in a potential trade for Collins, we really can't afford him. There is no get out of jail free card when you make franchise crippling moves. Eventually the bill comes due. Maybe luck will shine on us for the 2nd straight year, but the odds suggest otherwise. We need to stop making bad trades and signing the wrong free agents. And then we need to continue to draft well and develop those players.

[Porckchop]

Without some significant luck, our hopes for getting better hinge on the development of our young players. The DLO trade hamstrung us in multiple ways. And unless we can send DLO out in a potential trade for Collins, we really can't afford him. There is no get out of jail free card when you make franchise crippling moves. Eventually the bill comes due. Maybe luck will shine on us for the 2nd straight year, but the odds suggest otherwise. We need to stop making bad trades and signing the wrong free agents. And then we need to continue to draft well and develop those players.

Bad trades and wrong free agent yes but continuing to draft well imply that Okogie and Culver were good decisions. DLO is an easy target but let's face it. Two first rounders in a row that contribute next to nothing doesn't help. It's almost like they've been so bad that their just dismissed at this point.

[Coolbreeze44]

Without some significant luck, our hopes for getting better hinge on the development of our young players. The DLO trade hamstrung us in multiple ways. And unless we can send DLO out in a potential trade for Collins, we really can't afford him. There is no get out of jail free card when you make franchise crippling moves. Eventually the bill comes due. Maybe luck will shine on us for the 2nd straight year, but the odds suggest otherwise. We need to stop making bad trades and signing the wrong free agents. And then we need to continue to draft well and develop those players.

Bad trades and wrong free agent yes but continuing to draft well imply that Okogie and Culver were good decisions. DLO is an easy target but let's face it. Two first rounders in a row that contribute next to nothing doesn't help. It's almost like they've been so bad that their just dismissed at this point.

You know I'm referring to Edwards and McDaniels

[AbeVigodaLive]

Without some significant luck, our hopes for getting better hinge on the development of our young players. The DLO trade hamstrung us in multiple ways. And unless we can send DLO out in a potential trade for Collins, we really can't afford him. There is no get out of jail free card when you make franchise crippling moves. Eventually the bill comes due. Maybe luck will shine on us for the 2nd straight year, but the odds suggest otherwise. We need to stop making bad trades and signing the wrong free agents. And then we need to continue to draft well and develop those players.

Bad trades and wrong free agent yes but continuing to draft well imply that Okogie and Culver were good decisions. DLO is an easy target but let's face it. Two first rounders in a row that contribute next to nothing doesn't help. It's almost like they've been so bad that their just dismissed at this point.

You know I'm referring to Edwards and McDaniels

Yes. Okogie and Culver are lost causes. It's over. They will not be key rotation players on a winning team here.

Yes. Edwards and McDaniels have a lot of potential. They could be really good... eventually. One year in, they've done more harm than good. Edwards potential is unavoidable. He looks magical... sometimes. McDaniels... I'm just not as high on him long-term as others. We can hope though.

I'd love the Collins trade IF Russell wasn't here. That's simply a lot of money tied up in three non-super-duper elite players (to varying degrees).

[Lipoli390]

Without some significant luck, our hopes for getting better hinge on the development of our young players. The DLO trade hamstrung us in multiple ways. And unless we can send DLO out in a potential trade for Collins, we really can't afford him. There is no get out of jail free card when you make franchise crippling moves. Eventually the bill comes due. Maybe luck will shine on us for the 2nd straight year, but the odds suggest otherwise. We need to stop making bad trades and signing the wrong free agents. And then we need to continue to draft well and develop those players.

I'm with Cool on this. It's the point I've been making. I think my phrase was you don't fix dumb with dumber. If we can move DLO for Collins, then count me in. Otherwise, I don't like giving up assets for a second max-contract player who hasn't proven worthy of a max deal. I think Cam has suggested a couple arguably reasonable deals for Collins that don't involve DLO. Those deals are tempting, but I'd still probably say no. Unfortunately, I think Rosas will do a deal for Collins and he'll give up a lot more than Cam suggested in his two hypotheticals.

[thedoper]

I dont see the downside of signing Collins. We add talent at a position of need. That would give us legit talent at every position. I could care less about the impact on Glen's finances. The pain points dont change whatsoever if we make a commitment to Collins. We're not getting anywhere near his talent by any other mechanism. If we dont keep our pick that means next year is do our die, because there is no way in hell Towns makes it all the way through another tanking season. What would we be doing with that money anyway? If we can get Collins without trading Beasley, we'd be crazy not to do it. If we need to trade Beasley and a protected pick do it.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I dont see the downside of signing Collins. We add talent at a position of need. That would give us legit talent at every position. I could care less about the impact on Glen's finances. The pain points dont change whatsoever if we make a commitment to Collins. We're not getting anywhere near his talent by any other mechanism. If we dont keep our pick that means next year is do our die, because there is no way in hell Towns makes it all the way through another tanking season. What would we be doing with that money anyway? If we can get Collins without trading Beasley, we'd be crazy not to do it. If we need to trade Beasley and a protected pick do it.

On top of that, it appears as if Gersson Rosas may have a front office capable of unearthing unrecognized talent whether that be undrafted free agents or second-round picks. We could argue quite easily that Jaylen Nowell and Naz Reid were stolen first-round talents. Jaden McDaniels may have wound up going in the second round if not for Minnesota taking him at pick 28 overall.

For this reason, right or wrong, I think Rosas is confident using his first-round picks as trade ammunition. I think that he believes his front office can find talent where others cannot. I expect him to make a meaningful trade by this season's deadline using that 2024 first-round pick. My hope is that it's in pursuit of John Collins and not Aaron Gordon.

[FNG]

While not totally ignoring the idea that Culver could turn things around, I think we would all agree that Rosas had a swing and a miss on that pick. But although the jury is still out on his other draft picks and free agent pickups, isn't there some indication that he deserves at least a B, and may even be moving toward an A?

Edwards: It now looks like he will be the top scoring rookie this year, and he is showing potential as a passer. His defense needs a lot of work, but his on-ball defense shows promise. Plus, he is an exciting player to watch.

Nowell: Somehow Rosas got the Pac 10 player of the year in the second round. Nowell started slowly (except for being outstanding in G League), but is now starting to look at least like a high-scoring option off the bench. Major steal in the second round.

Reid: Outstanding post game and scorer. Great free agent pick-up

McDaniels: Has surprised many of us with his maturity, poise, and defensive mobility. Looks like another steal to me as a late 1st rounder.

J-Mac: Runs an offense very well and surprisingly productive scorer. Underrated defender. Another terrific free agent pick-up.

We can argue about his trades...a lot of differing opinions here. But if the trends continue, he may have carved out a reputation as a very good drafter. Another reason why losing a first round pick really hurts, and why we can't afford to give up any more picks.

[AbeVigodaLive]

While not totally ignoring the idea that Culver could turn things around, I think we would all agree that Rosas had a swing and a miss on that pick. But although the jury is still out on his other draft picks and free agent pickups, isn't there some indication that he deserves at least a B, and may even be moving toward an A?

Edwards: It now looks like he will be the top scoring rookie this year, and he is showing potential as a passer. His defense needs a lot of work, but his on-ball defense shows promise. Plus, he is an exciting player to watch.

Nowell: Somehow Rosas got the Pac 10 player of the year in the second round. Nowell started slowly (except for being outstanding in G League), but is now starting to look at least like a high-scoring option off the bench. Major steal in the second round.

Reid: Outstanding post game and scorer. Great free agent pick-up

McDaniels: Has surprised many of us with his maturity, poise, and defensive mobility. Looks like another steal to me as a late 1st rounder.

J-Mac: Runs an offense very well and surprisingly productive scorer. Underrated defender. Another terrific free agent pick-up.

We can argue about his trades...a lot of differing opinions here. But if the trends continue, he may have carved out a reputation as a very good drafter. Another reason why losing a first round pick really hurts, and why we can't afford to give up any more picks.

Giving up an asset (PF) to take a guy unworthy of a rookie extension at #6 lowers that grade significantly. That was an F move... and that should disqualify any talk of an A grade.

As for Edwards... yes. Promising. But Rosas had the #1 pick. So he would be expected to take the best player in the draft, right? And 2/3 of the way through season 1... it doesn't look like that happened. Could have been worse... could have been better.

By the way, he doesn't play huge minutes, but has anybody seen how well Saric is playing in Phoenix?

19 mpg
11.4 ppg
4.2 reb
49/39/90 splits

Meanwhile... Hernangomez (with worse defense):

16 mpg
6.0 ppg
4.3 reb
41/32/65 splits

Saric makes $2M more.