Camden wrote:Not that Ricky Rubio's the singular reason for this Wolves team losing or even at the top of that list, but how is this board not exhausted of watching them lose with him in uniform? This is his seventh season in Minnesota and they are 183-335 (.353) in those seasons and counting. Maybe he's just not the straw that stirs a winning drink. Frankly, I'd like this franchise to distance itself from the losers of its past and try anything different. Give me a team full of shooters. Give me a team full of rangy, explosive athletes. Give me a team that defends like crazy but struggles to score. Anything besides what we've seen from the past. And that includes Rubio.
Rubio without a doubt in my mind cost this team wins in the first half of the year. He was giving the team 4 points on terrible shooting, 4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out. (ok not exact stats but in the ballpark)
You lose multiple games by 3-4 points and yes it's arguable that Rubio's terrible play resulted in more losses.
I'm sure we are all fine trading him for a pick and player if that is possible. Wether that pick is decent or player is younger with potential to be a player either is fine with me. Rubio is not a long term answer and his mediocre play and leadership are not enough for me to consider the future.
"Not exact stats but in the ballpark"...
Apparently, wolvesfan's ballpark is 1,038 feet down the foul lines.
This is not an endorsement of Rubio... only pointing out the shadiness of the post.
If you are going to debate my stats then do it by actually calculating them. Because I remember he was avg about 6 points a game and was joking how we could replace them and his turnovers.
So yes, my stats were in the ballpark unless you can prove otherwise.
Rubio was also turning the ball over more then any PG in the league based on per minute played, only one player was worse and it was McConnell!!!
So garbage points on terrible shooting and almost turning the ball over more then any other. I was being KIND in my first post!
We'd have 5-6 more wins if he was merely avg!!!!!
You wrote... "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Then acted offended that I teased you on that ridiculous stat/hyperbole. So here you go big guy...
Ricky Rubio has not had a game with more TOs than assists this season.
Rubio in December:
4.5 assists / 1.3 TO
Rubio in January:
6.2 assists / 2.5 TO
Rubio in February:
6.9 assists / 1.8 TO
Rubio in March:
8.4 assists / 2.0 TO
Happy now?
[Note: Rubio is 14th best in the league in Assist/TO ratio... McConnell is 13th. I don't know what source you're using for your stats... but you might want to find a different one.]
Camden wrote:Not that Ricky Rubio's the singular reason for this Wolves team losing or even at the top of that list, but how is this board not exhausted of watching them lose with him in uniform? This is his seventh season in Minnesota and they are 183-335 (.353) in those seasons and counting. Maybe he's just not the straw that stirs a winning drink. Frankly, I'd like this franchise to distance itself from the losers of its past and try anything different. Give me a team full of shooters. Give me a team full of rangy, explosive athletes. Give me a team that defends like crazy but struggles to score. Anything besides what we've seen from the past. And that includes Rubio.
Rubio without a doubt in my mind cost this team wins in the first half of the year. He was giving the team 4 points on terrible shooting, 4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out. (ok not exact stats but in the ballpark)
You lose multiple games by 3-4 points and yes it's arguable that Rubio's terrible play resulted in more losses.
I'm sure we are all fine trading him for a pick and player if that is possible. Wether that pick is decent or player is younger with potential to be a player either is fine with me. Rubio is not a long term answer and his mediocre play and leadership are not enough for me to consider the future.
"Not exact stats but in the ballpark"...
Apparently, wolvesfan's ballpark is 1,038 feet down the foul lines.
This is not an endorsement of Rubio... only pointing out the shadiness of the post.
If you are going to debate my stats then do it by actually calculating them. Because I remember he was avg about 6 points a game and was joking how we could replace them and his turnovers.
So yes, my stats were in the ballpark unless you can prove otherwise.
Rubio was also turning the ball over more then any PG in the league based on per minute played, only one player was worse and it was McConnell!!!
So garbage points on terrible shooting and almost turning the ball over more then any other. I was being KIND in my first post!
We'd have 5-6 more wins if he was merely avg!!!!!
You wrote... "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Then acted offended that I teased you on that ridiculous stat/hyperbole. So here you go big guy...
Ricky Rubio has not had a game with more TOs than assists this season.
Rubio in December:
4.5 assists / 1.3 TO
Rubio in January:
6.2 assists / 2.5 TO
Rubio in February:
6.9 assists / 1.8 TO
Rubio in March:
8.4 assists / 2.0 TO
Happy now?
[Note: Rubio is 14th best in the league in Assist/TO ratio... McConnell is 13th. I don't know what source you're using for your stats... but you might want to find a different one.]
Based on 100 possessions and the percent of time you turn it over.
Those goalposts are moving quickly.
1. You specifically wrote by minutes played.
2. And you specifically wrote "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Neither one is true. Again... Rubio has not even had a single game this season with more TOs than assists.
[Note: None of this is to excuse Rubio's very shoddy play earlier this season. He was terrible. And the Covid excuse seems weird to me. When I hear "out of shape", I think poor conditioning. I also find in inexcusable for guys making $17M like Rubio or $7M like Hernangomez to come in out of shape. They should be ripped for that.]
Camden wrote:Not that Ricky Rubio's the singular reason for this Wolves team losing or even at the top of that list, but how is this board not exhausted of watching them lose with him in uniform? This is his seventh season in Minnesota and they are 183-335 (.353) in those seasons and counting. Maybe he's just not the straw that stirs a winning drink. Frankly, I'd like this franchise to distance itself from the losers of its past and try anything different. Give me a team full of shooters. Give me a team full of rangy, explosive athletes. Give me a team that defends like crazy but struggles to score. Anything besides what we've seen from the past. And that includes Rubio.
Rubio without a doubt in my mind cost this team wins in the first half of the year. He was giving the team 4 points on terrible shooting, 4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out. (ok not exact stats but in the ballpark)
You lose multiple games by 3-4 points and yes it's arguable that Rubio's terrible play resulted in more losses.
I'm sure we are all fine trading him for a pick and player if that is possible. Wether that pick is decent or player is younger with potential to be a player either is fine with me. Rubio is not a long term answer and his mediocre play and leadership are not enough for me to consider the future.
"Not exact stats but in the ballpark"...
Apparently, wolvesfan's ballpark is 1,038 feet down the foul lines.
This is not an endorsement of Rubio... only pointing out the shadiness of the post.
If you are going to debate my stats then do it by actually calculating them. Because I remember he was avg about 6 points a game and was joking how we could replace them and his turnovers.
So yes, my stats were in the ballpark unless you can prove otherwise.
Rubio was also turning the ball over more then any PG in the league based on per minute played, only one player was worse and it was McConnell!!!
So garbage points on terrible shooting and almost turning the ball over more then any other. I was being KIND in my first post!
We'd have 5-6 more wins if he was merely avg!!!!!
You wrote... "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Then acted offended that I teased you on that ridiculous stat/hyperbole. So here you go big guy...
Ricky Rubio has not had a game with more TOs than assists this season.
Rubio in December:
4.5 assists / 1.3 TO
Rubio in January:
6.2 assists / 2.5 TO
Rubio in February:
6.9 assists / 1.8 TO
Rubio in March:
8.4 assists / 2.0 TO
Happy now?
[Note: Rubio is 14th best in the league in Assist/TO ratio... McConnell is 13th. I don't know what source you're using for your stats... but you might want to find a different one.]
Based on 100 possessions and the percent of time you turn it over.
Those goalposts are moving quickly.
1. You specifically wrote by minutes played.
2. And you specifically wrote "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Neither one is true. Again... Rubio has not even had a single game this season with more TOs than assists.
[Note: None of this is to excuse Rubio's very shoddy play earlier this season. He was terrible. And the Covid excuse seems weird to me. When I hear "out of shape", I think poor conditioning. I also find in inexcusable for guys making $17M like Rubio or $7M like Hernangomez to come in out of shape. They should be ripped for that.]
I was flying by the seat of my pants. Hyperbole exposed! lol
He was still terrible by every measure though and we can at least be happy he's not playing that way anymore. Because I was hoping to see Dave Benz sub in for Ricky at times.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Let me ask a question about this debate, and I'll be blunt. Why is the reason for Ricky's malaise at the beginning of the season important now?
It's not important. That's my blunt answer. :). You nailed it, Cool. It was the main point of my prior posts on this subject.
I offered an explanation for his bad play earlier this season. I could easily be wrong and I could care less whether I'm right. What I care about is the Wolves making the right decision on Ricky going forward after, in my view, erring in their decision to acquire him in the first place. My view is that the Wolves should value Ricky, as player and trade asset, at the level he's been playing over the past 6 weeks. If potential trade partners discount Ricky's value based on his terrible early-season play, then Rosas will simply need to hold onto to Ricky.
I'd still like to see the Wolves move DLO, in which case it would make more sense to keep Ricky. But I know that trading DLO is not realistic.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Let me ask a question about this debate, and I'll be blunt. Why is the reason for Ricky's malaise at the beginning of the season important now?
It's not important. That's my blunt answer. :). You nailed it, Cool. It was the main point of my prior posts on this subject.
I offered an explanation for his bad play earlier this season. I could easily be wrong and I could care less whether I'm right. What I care about is the Wolves making the right decision on Ricky going forward after, in my view, erring in their decision to acquire him in the first place. My view is that the Wolves should value Ricky, as player and trade asset, at the level he's been playing over the past 6 weeks. If potential trade partners discount Ricky's value based on his terrible early-season play, then Rosas will simply need to hold onto to Ricky.
I'd still like to see the Wolves move DLO, in which case it would make more sense to keep Ricky. But I know that trading DLO is not realistic.
Here is another kind of crazy thought. One of the benefits of having DLO out there with Edwards and KAT is that he can help space the floor a lot better than Rubio. But what if we made Ant our starting PG and kept Beasley to start at SG and traded DLO? Rubio would still get significant minutes at PG and Nowell would be the 4th guard.
I don't even know if I like the idea myself because it doubles-down even more on Ant, who is still a fairly undisciplined decision-maker. But he ultimately might be better suited to be more of a pure lead guard ala Harden or Kyrie Irving than a wing.
Camden wrote:Not that Ricky Rubio's the singular reason for this Wolves team losing or even at the top of that list, but how is this board not exhausted of watching them lose with him in uniform? This is his seventh season in Minnesota and they are 183-335 (.353) in those seasons and counting. Maybe he's just not the straw that stirs a winning drink. Frankly, I'd like this franchise to distance itself from the losers of its past and try anything different. Give me a team full of shooters. Give me a team full of rangy, explosive athletes. Give me a team that defends like crazy but struggles to score. Anything besides what we've seen from the past. And that includes Rubio.
Rubio without a doubt in my mind cost this team wins in the first half of the year. He was giving the team 4 points on terrible shooting, 4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out. (ok not exact stats but in the ballpark)
You lose multiple games by 3-4 points and yes it's arguable that Rubio's terrible play resulted in more losses.
I'm sure we are all fine trading him for a pick and player if that is possible. Wether that pick is decent or player is younger with potential to be a player either is fine with me. Rubio is not a long term answer and his mediocre play and leadership are not enough for me to consider the future.
"Not exact stats but in the ballpark"...
Apparently, wolvesfan's ballpark is 1,038 feet down the foul lines.
This is not an endorsement of Rubio... only pointing out the shadiness of the post.
If you are going to debate my stats then do it by actually calculating them. Because I remember he was avg about 6 points a game and was joking how we could replace them and his turnovers.
So yes, my stats were in the ballpark unless you can prove otherwise.
Rubio was also turning the ball over more then any PG in the league based on per minute played, only one player was worse and it was McConnell!!!
So garbage points on terrible shooting and almost turning the ball over more then any other. I was being KIND in my first post!
We'd have 5-6 more wins if he was merely avg!!!!!
You wrote... "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Then acted offended that I teased you on that ridiculous stat/hyperbole. So here you go big guy...
Ricky Rubio has not had a game with more TOs than assists this season.
Rubio in December:
4.5 assists / 1.3 TO
Rubio in January:
6.2 assists / 2.5 TO
Rubio in February:
6.9 assists / 1.8 TO
Rubio in March:
8.4 assists / 2.0 TO
Happy now?
[Note: Rubio is 14th best in the league in Assist/TO ratio... McConnell is 13th. I don't know what source you're using for your stats... but you might want to find a different one.]
Based on 100 possessions and the percent of time you turn it over.
Those goalposts are moving quickly.
1. You specifically wrote by minutes played.
2. And you specifically wrote "4 turnovers and 1 assist night in and out."
Neither one is true. Again... Rubio has not even had a single game this season with more TOs than assists.
[Note: None of this is to excuse Rubio's very shoddy play earlier this season. He was terrible. And the Covid excuse seems weird to me. When I hear "out of shape", I think poor conditioning. I also find in inexcusable for guys making $17M like Rubio or $7M like Hernangomez to come in out of shape. They should be ripped for that.]
I was flying by the seat of my pants. Hyperbole exposed! lol
He was still terrible by every measure though and we can at least be happy he's not playing that way anymore. Because I was hoping to see Dave Benz sub in for Ricky at times.
Fair enough.
So why fight it? Just write that the first time and move on.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Let me ask a question about this debate, and I'll be blunt. Why is the reason for Ricky's malaise at the beginning of the season important now?
It's not important. That's my blunt answer. :). You nailed it, Cool. It was the main point of my prior posts on this subject.
I offered an explanation for his bad play earlier this season. I could easily be wrong and I could care less whether I'm right. What I care about is the Wolves making the right decision on Ricky going forward after, in my view, erring in their decision to acquire him in the first place. My view is that the Wolves should value Ricky, as player and trade asset, at the level he's been playing over the past 6 weeks. If potential trade partners discount Ricky's value based on his terrible early-season play, then Rosas will simply need to hold onto to Ricky.
I'd still like to see the Wolves move DLO, in which case it would make more sense to keep Ricky. But I know that trading DLO is not realistic.
Here is another kind of crazy thought. One of the benefits of having DLO out there with Edwards and KAT is that he can help space the floor a lot better than Rubio. But what if we made Ant our starting PG and kept Beasley to start at SG and traded DLO? Rubio would still get significant minutes at PG and Nowell would be the 4th guard.
I don't even know if I like the idea myself because it doubles-down even more on Ant, who is still a fairly undisciplined decision-maker. But he ultimately might be better suited to be more of a pure lead guard ala Harden or Kyrie Irving than a wing.
I love the idea Q, but how are you going to trade DLO? If my head moron theory is correct, he may not be tradeable anymore. The only thing I can think of is if a contending team sees other teams beefing up and they get desperate to add a shooter. But even then, how many contenders can send back enough salary to make it work?
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Let me ask a question about this debate, and I'll be blunt. Why is the reason for Ricky's malaise at the beginning of the season important now?
It's not important. That's my blunt answer. :). You nailed it, Cool. It was the main point of my prior posts on this subject.
I offered an explanation for his bad play earlier this season. I could easily be wrong and I could care less whether I'm right. What I care about is the Wolves making the right decision on Ricky going forward after, in my view, erring in their decision to acquire him in the first place. My view is that the Wolves should value Ricky, as player and trade asset, at the level he's been playing over the past 6 weeks. If potential trade partners discount Ricky's value based on his terrible early-season play, then Rosas will simply need to hold onto to Ricky.
I'd still like to see the Wolves move DLO, in which case it would make more sense to keep Ricky. But I know that trading DLO is not realistic.
Here is another kind of crazy thought. One of the benefits of having DLO out there with Edwards and KAT is that he can help space the floor a lot better than Rubio. But what if we made Ant our starting PG and kept Beasley to start at SG and traded DLO? Rubio would still get significant minutes at PG and Nowell would be the 4th guard.
I don't even know if I like the idea myself because it doubles-down even more on Ant, who is still a fairly undisciplined decision-maker. But he ultimately might be better suited to be more of a pure lead guard ala Harden or Kyrie Irving than a wing.
Interesting thought, Q. I've been thinking the same thing. In my view, the best future scenario for this team has Edwards as our lead guard. If he develops into the elite player he has the potential to be, then I think that's by far the best role for him and there isn't any room for DLO in that scenario. Whether Edwards will eventually develop into that caliber player and, if so, when, are open questions. As much as I like what we've seen from Edwards lately, I'm not ready to place a bet on Vegas on Edwards reaching that level. But I think he has to reach that level of this team is going to become a true contender down the road.
If it were up to me, I'd seek to trade DLO and keep Ricky as our starting PG and continue to develop Edwards in the hope that he will continue progressing and eventually become our lead guard and other star next to KAT. Unfortunately, I don't see a realistic potential deal out there for DLO before the deadline or even in the upcoming off season.
If you want Anthony Edwards to develop into a lead guard or the main ball-handler, which is the best-case scenario for him as a player, then why on earth would you want to play Ricky Rubio next to him at any time? This is something I've never understood when watching Rubio play next to other lead guards in two-guard lineups. If he's not handling the ball, he's hurting your team offensively, in my opinion, because teams know that he can't shoot the basketball. At the very least, D'Angelo Russell is a very good shooter. He requires defensive attention if for nothing else besides his ability to make shots from the perimeter. That skill makes Edwards' job as a slasher much easier. It makes everyone's job easier, actually, but especially him in this case. Rubio standing in the corner or at the break with his defender ignoring him at the painted area means more traffic and less room for everybody.
I think the reality is that Beasley is much easier to trade and in fact could yield back something quite useful. If you pair DLO and Edwards in the backcourt, then you have to believe that he and Edwards will essentially share the PG duties on a possession-to-possession basis. If Edwards improves his decision making and shot making, then it's inevitable that he eventually becomes our lead guard.
