Are you ready for 3-0- Pelicans rematch GDT

[Duke13]

I just want to take a step back for a moment. Yes, KAT has to grow up, get his emotions in check and stop whining. But equating his play so far this season or overall with DLO is way off the mark. Without KAT, the Wolves would be 1-2 or 0-3 instead of 2-1 so far this season. He had 32 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steal and 2 blocks last night. He got to the line 8 times and hit all 8. He battled JV the beast on both ends time after time. He had 25 points the previous game and 30 points in the opener. And he's complemented his offensive prowess with good defense so far this season. I won't bother to review DLO's stats.

As for calling KAT a loser, I'll just remind folks that this team made the playoffs with KAT in the 2017-18 season when Butler was here. If Butler hadn't been hurt and missed so many games, the Wolves probably would have been a 4th seed that season. Would I take Embiid or Jokic over KAT as a big guy to build around? Yes. But those players have been "winners" because they've had players around them who helped them win. Even the greatest player of all time, MJ, was a loser until Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant showed up. KAT has been surrounded by G-League-caliber players and one talented player with serious flaws (Wiggins then DLO) every season here except the season when Butler was here. And in that one season, KAT was a winner.

Last night was telling. KAT had 32 points and 14 rebounds while Edwards had 29 points and 9 rebounds. No other player on the team came close to either on in scoring or rebounding contributions. In fact, except for Beverley, the offensive and rebounding production from the rest of the team was horrible. I guarantee that the Wolves would have lost last night with Jokic, Embiid, Gobert or anyone else instead of KAT on the roster. Going forward, the success of the this team will depend on the duo of KAT and Edwards. The question those two have the right players around them to be winners. That remains to be seen. We're only 3 games in.

Because Kat played on 1 team that was a potential 4th seed is some accomplishment worth high praise? And that team needed up bounced in 5 games in the 1st round.

[Coolbreeze44]

I just want to take a step back for a moment. Yes, KAT has to grow up, get his emotions in check and stop whining. But equating his play so far this season or overall with DLO is way off the mark. Without KAT, the Wolves would be 1-2 or 0-3 instead of 2-1 so far this season. He had 32 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steal and 2 blocks last night. He got to the line 8 times and hit all 8. He battled JV the beast on both ends time after time. He had 25 points the previous game and 30 points in the opener. And he's complemented his offensive prowess with good defense so far this season. I won't bother to review DLO's stats.

As for calling KAT a loser, I'll just remind folks that this team made the playoffs with KAT in the 2017-18 season when Butler was here. If Butler hadn't been hurt and missed so many games, the Wolves probably would have been a 4th seed that season. Would I take Embiid or Jokic over KAT as a big guy to build around? Yes. But those players have been "winners" because they've had players around them who helped them win. Even the greatest player of all time, MJ, was a loser until Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant showed up. KAT has been surrounded by G-League-caliber players and one talented player with serious flaws (Wiggins then DLO) every season here except the season when Butler was here. And in that one season, KAT was a winner.

Last night was telling. KAT had 32 points and 14 rebounds while Edwards had 29 points and 9 rebounds. No other player on the team came close to either on in scoring or rebounding contributions. In fact, except for Beverley, the offensive and rebounding production from the rest of the team was horrible. I guarantee that the Wolves would have lost last night with Jokic, Embiid, Gobert or anyone else instead of KAT on the roster. Going forward, the success of the this team will depend on the duo of KAT and Edwards. The question those two have the right players around them to be winners. That remains to be seen. We're only 3 games in.

This is what I'm talking about. People see the stats and the talent, but they don't see the whole story. I'm not singling you out here Lip, just using the example. It's more fact than opinion when I say KAT is a loser because the ball doesn't lie. Stephen Curry is winning with Wiggins as his #2. That's because a lot more goes into winning than hollow stats. (see Kevin Love)DL

KAT is obviously not a #1 on a championship team. You all think DLO is better than Wiggins (he's not by the way), so why aren't we contenders? We've got the great KAT, DLO the magnificent, the runner up for rookie of the year, and a ton of depth. Why aren't we winners? You tell me.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

This is what I'm talking about. People see the stats and the talent, but they don't see the whole story. I'm not singling you out here Lip, just using the example. It's more fact than opinion when I say KAT is a loser because the ball doesn't lie. Stephen Curry is winning with Wiggins as his #2. That's because a lot more goes into winning than hollow stats. (see Kevin Love)DL

KAT is obviously not a #1 on a championship team. You all think DLO is better than Wiggins (he's not by the way), so why aren't we contenders? We've got the great KAT, DLO the magnificent, the runner up for rookie of the year, and a ton of depth. Why aren't we winners? You tell me.

Steph Curry is "winning" because:

A.) He's a top-15 player all-time. Some would say top-10, but I'm not there.
B.) He's got a former DPOY and likely Hall of Famer in Draymond Green as his real number two. Nice try on that one.

I'll also note that the Warriors weren't even that great last year due to a pretty weak roster overall, and that includes Wiggins. They were six games over .500 with two All-NBA players leading the way. They essentially played 44-win basketball. Shouldn't they have been contenders based on your reasoning? One player can't do it all. Two players can't even do it all. Not in today's NBA.

The facts are that Minnesota hasn't even seen a full season of Karl-Anthony Towns paired with D'Angelo Russell. But we have seen five years of Towns with Wiggins. We've already seen better results in the limited time the KAT/D-Lo pairing has been on the court together than any point in time during the Towns/Wiggins era that didn't involve Jimmy Butler. Let's all be patient and wait for some more basketball to be played.

[thedoper]

KAT was 4-14 in the first half and his immature tirade put us in a hole we couldnt climb out of. Then he got 7 points when the game was out of reach (down by 14 with 2 mins left) to pad his stats. Robson's article rightly points out that last nights game was a great example of KATs often empty calories in his stats not translating into winning. Celebrating KATs stat line last night doesnt vindicate his play in my mind.


Dlo is not the talent KAT is, but his years in the league, his salary, and him and KAT showing preference to eachother in offensive sets make them a package of our leadership. Dlo was hot garbage the last two game no doubt. But Its their roles as leaders together that get me. I get no sense of composure or professionalism from either them. It's all hipster rhetoric without proving anything. I believe both have the talent to be winners and want to see it. Whining like a baby and having JV live in your head is not how to get it. And for DLo, lazily moving around the court and casually jacking up 3s wont do it either. Players can grow up thankfully, I hope KAT and DLo do it.

[Lipoli390]

I just want to take a step back for a moment. Yes, KAT has to grow up, get his emotions in check and stop whining. But equating his play so far this season or overall with DLO is way off the mark. Without KAT, the Wolves would be 1-2 or 0-3 instead of 2-1 so far this season. He had 32 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steal and 2 blocks last night. He got to the line 8 times and hit all 8. He battled JV the beast on both ends time after time. He had 25 points the previous game and 30 points in the opener. And he's complemented his offensive prowess with good defense so far this season. I won't bother to review DLO's stats.

As for calling KAT a loser, I'll just remind folks that this team made the playoffs with KAT in the 2017-18 season when Butler was here. If Butler hadn't been hurt and missed so many games, the Wolves probably would have been a 4th seed that season. Would I take Embiid or Jokic over KAT as a big guy to build around? Yes. But those players have been "winners" because they've had players around them who helped them win. Even the greatest player of all time, MJ, was a loser until Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant showed up. KAT has been surrounded by G-League-caliber players and one talented player with serious flaws (Wiggins then DLO) every season here except the season when Butler was here. And in that one season, KAT was a winner.

Last night was telling. KAT had 32 points and 14 rebounds while Edwards had 29 points and 9 rebounds. No other player on the team came close to either on in scoring or rebounding contributions. In fact, except for Beverley, the offensive and rebounding production from the rest of the team was horrible. I guarantee that the Wolves would have lost last night with Jokic, Embiid, Gobert or anyone else instead of KAT on the roster. Going forward, the success of the this team will depend on the duo of KAT and Edwards. The question those two have the right players around them to be winners. That remains to be seen. We're only 3 games in.

This is what I'm talking about. People see the stats and the talent, but they don't see the whole story. I'm not singling you out here Lip, just using the example. It's more fact than opinion when I say KAT is a loser because the ball doesn't lie. Stephen Curry is winning with Wiggins as his #2. That's because a lot more goes into winning than hollow stats. (see Kevin Love)DL

KAT is obviously not a #1 on a championship team. You all think DLO is better than Wiggins (he's not by the way), so why aren't we contenders? We've got the great KAT, DLO the magnificent, the runner up for rookie of the year, and a ton of depth. Why aren't we winners? You tell me.

Cool - We just disagree on this. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they tell a significant part of the story. I look at the players KAT has had around him - context - and I don't see any top player being a "winner" on any of those teams. My point was that the one season he had another all-star caliber player with him, the Wolves made that playoffs. Every other season here KAT hasn't had even one teammate remotely close to all-star caliber. I'm not sure what your point is about Kevin Love. I think he won a championship when paired with LeBron and Kyrie. He failed to win when he didn't have a lot of talent around him. The Wolves were actually one of the hottest teams in the League with Love and Rubio when Ricky tore his ACL. He was a winner when teamed with really good players and he was a loser when he wasn't. Even the winner LeBron barely made the playoffs last season when, with injuries, the talent around him wasn't sufficient.

[Lipoli390]

KAT was 4-14 in the first half and his immature tirade put us in a hole we couldnt climb out of. Then he got 7 points when the game was out of reach (down by 14 with 2 mins left) to pad his stats. Robson's article rightly points out that last nights game was a great example of KATs often empty calories in his stats not translating into winning. Celebrating KATs stat line last night doesnt vindicate his play in my mind.


Dlo is not the talent KAT is, but his years in the league, his salary, and him and KAT showing preference to eachother in offensive sets make them a package of our leadership. Dlo was hot garbage the last two game no doubt. But Its their roles as leaders together that get me. I get no sense of composure or professionalism from either them. It's all hipster rhetoric without proving anything. I believe both have the talent to be winners and want to see it. Whining like a baby and having JV live in your head is not how to get it. And for DLo, lazily moving around the court and casually jacking up 3s wont do it either. Players can grow up thankfully, I hope KAT and DLo do it.

OK, so KAT only had 25 points and 14 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 steals and 7 assists before he started padding his stats with an extra 7 points. You're reaching a bit with that one, Doper. Most of his impressive stats were in the heat of competition when the game was on the line, and that includes his clutch 8-8 free-throw shooting. I don't like his whining either, but in my view he's not part of the problem. He's part of the solution. The problem is that we don't have the other parts except for Edwards and possible Beverley.

Otherwise, I do get where you're coming from about KAT. His immaturity is particularly bad given the fact that he's the team's best player. When your best player acts like a child, it hurts the team in a way that subtracts some of the value that player provides through his performance. We're MUCH better with him than without him, but we'd be better still if he would grow up. So honestly, I'm as frustrated by his immaturity after 6 years in the League as anyone on this Board. I'm just suggesting the need for a little more perspective. KAT's not a loser and we'd be much worse off without him. I agree he has to grow up and I wonder if he ever will. He also has to make quicker decisions with the ball. But the real key to this team getting to the playoffs will be whether there is anyone other than KAT and Edwards who can produce on a consistent basis. So far, no one else has even produced offensively, much less on a consistent basis. The good news is that everyone, including KAT and DLO are playing well defensively. So I'm not going to get too bent out of shape over last night's loss and a 2-1 record to start the season.

[Porckchop]

KG willed less talented team's to the playoffs with half the skill set Kat has. He seems to lack that inner dog. The ability to play so hard that the players around him find another level out of respect for the effort the best player is putting forth. KG always hustled his ass back on defense. Kat's energy is wasted complaining to the refs.

[Coolbreeze44]

This is what I'm talking about. People see the stats and the talent, but they don't see the whole story. I'm not singling you out here Lip, just using the example. It's more fact than opinion when I say KAT is a loser because the ball doesn't lie. Stephen Curry is winning with Wiggins as his #2. That's because a lot more goes into winning than hollow stats. (see Kevin Love)DL

KAT is obviously not a #1 on a championship team. You all think DLO is better than Wiggins (he's not by the way), so why aren't we contenders? We've got the great KAT, DLO the magnificent, the runner up for rookie of the year, and a ton of depth. Why aren't we winners? You tell me.

Steph Curry is "winning" because:

A.) He's a top-15 player all-time. Some would say top-10, but I'm not there.
B.) He's got a former DPOY and likely Hall of Famer in Draymond Green as his real number two. Nice try on that one.

I'll also note that the Warriors weren't even that great last year due to a pretty weak roster overall, and that includes Wiggins. They were six games over .500 with two All-NBA players leading the way. They essentially played 44-win basketball. Shouldn't they have been contenders based on your reasoning? One player can't do it all. Two players can't even do it all. Not in today's NBA.

The facts are that Minnesota hasn't even seen a full season of Karl-Anthony Towns paired with D'Angelo Russell. But we have seen five years of Towns with Wiggins. We've already seen better results in the limited time the KAT/D-Lo pairing has been on the court together than any point in time during the Towns/Wiggins era that didn't involve Jimmy Butler. Let's all be patient and wait for some more basketball to be played.

Haha, you haven't seen Draymond Green play in a while.

[Coolbreeze44]

This is what I'm talking about. People see the stats and the talent, but they don't see the whole story. I'm not singling you out here Lip, just using the example. It's more fact than opinion when I say KAT is a loser because the ball doesn't lie. Stephen Curry is winning with Wiggins as his #2. That's because a lot more goes into winning than hollow stats. (see Kevin Love)DL

KAT is obviously not a #1 on a championship team. You all think DLO is better than Wiggins (he's not by the way), so why aren't we contenders? We've got the great KAT, DLO the magnificent, the runner up for rookie of the year, and a ton of depth. Why aren't we winners? You tell me.

Steph Curry is "winning" because:

A.) He's a top-15 player all-time. Some would say top-10, but I'm not there.
B.) He's got a former DPOY and likely Hall of Famer in Draymond Green as his real number two. Nice try on that one.

I'll also note that the Warriors weren't even that great last year due to a pretty weak roster overall, and that includes Wiggins. They were six games over .500 with two All-NBA players leading the way. They essentially played 44-win basketball. Shouldn't they have been contenders based on your reasoning? One player can't do it all. Two players can't even do it all. Not in today's NBA.

The facts are that Minnesota hasn't even seen a full season of Karl-Anthony Towns paired with D'Angelo Russell. But we have seen five years of Towns with Wiggins. We've already seen better results in the limited time the KAT/D-Lo pairing has been on the court together than any point in time during the Towns/Wiggins era that didn't involve Jimmy Butler. Let's all be patient and wait for some more basketball to be played.

Also, you argued last year that Steph was not a top 15 player of all time. Now you conveniently slip that in there. Poor form.

[Lipoli390]

KG willed less talented team's to the playoffs with half the skill set Kat has. He seems to lack that inner dog. The ability to play so hard that the players around him find another level out of respect for the effort the best player is putting forth. KG always hustled his ass back on defense. Kat's energy is wasted complaining to the refs.

I'll grant you that KAT is no KG by a long shot. You might be right about him lacking the inner dog. I think it's more a manner of having too much inner child. :). Seriously, it's hard to expect grown men to follow the leadership of a whiny child. I've always thought that KAT needs to be a team's #2. Talk about immaturity - how about the time Scottie Pippen refused to go back on the court in a playoff game after a timeout because he was pissed that Jackson had Kukoc instead of Scottie take the big shot before the timeout. And that was a playoff game when the game was on the line. But Pippen might be the best #2 player we've ever seen in the NBA. And he wasn't a loser. I'm hoping that Edwards can become the team's #1. If not Edwards, I don't know who it will be. I know it won't be KAT.