Wiggins vaccination appeal denied

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Also, kudos to those that truly believe that they're responsible for the health of their neighbors and the well-being of their community. That's morally superior and you are all exemplary human beings. The unvaccinated are selfish and awful people who should be shunned from society until the end of time. Not only should states impose COVID vaccine and mask mandates, but they should require quarterly booster shots and refusal to do so should result in public humiliation and eternal damnation. All hail Lord Fauci! :)

[Lipoli390]

Also, kudos to those that truly believe that they're responsible for the health of their neighbors and the well-being of their community. That's morally superior and you are all exemplary human beings. The unvaccinated are selfish and awful people who should be shunned from society until the end of time. Not only should states impose COVID vaccine and mask mandates, but they should require quarterly booster shots and refusal to do so should result in public humiliation and eternal damnation. All hail Lord Fauci! :)

Lol. Glad you got that off your chest, Cam. Now go get the vaccine! :)

[WildWolf2813]

According to molecular biologist Christina parks who spoke on house bill 4471 she stated that the vaccines do not impact transmission. https://youtu.be/nF4yVDt6RBw

Also if we are so concerned about having hospital beds why on earth are we forcing people to leave that do not get vaccinated. Seems to me you would want more workers not less.

None of this is about public health anymore, if it ever was. We have many intelligent Americans in this country. Far too many have succumbed to the fear-mongering over a virus that kills less than two-percent of the people it actually infects. And of those deaths, about 79-percent (!) have been people 65-years and older. Those numbers are pulled from the CDC themselves who have been hit or miss throughout this entire process on their guidance.

Let's think logically here. In 2019, roughly 16.5-percent of the American population was 65-years old or over. Why are there even discussions of vaccine mandates when this virus primarily affects the elderly? Like I said before, 79-percent of COVID deaths have been people 65 and over, but yet they make up under 20-percent of the U.S. population. Perhaps the elderly should receive the vaccine as well as staying home and away from everybody else. Let the rest of the world operate under normal conditions. Enough is enough.

Forget the life and death aspect of it. The symptoms in of themselves feel like something I never wanna experience.


As someone who lives in NY State and has an excelsior pass (an app that says your name, DOB and whether or not you're vaccinated), I have not once felt like my liberties have been compromised as a result of this. Growing up being a government /authority cynic, compared to other methods of compromising my civil liberties, none of this feels invasive at all.

Speaking as someone who lives in an area that was once one of the three hardest hit counties in the country with Covid, life since the vaccine has been as close to normal as it could be.

[TAFKASP]

As I see it vaccines are a defensive measure thus it should be no surprise that Wiggins would avoid it at all costs!

[Monster]

As I see it vaccines are a defensive measure thus it should be no surprise that Wiggins would avoid it at all costs!

Someone posted on Twitter:

"Wiggins has always struggled with shot selection."

[TheGrey08]

First I want to say there's been a lot of good dialogue in this thread so far. I agree with a lot of what Lip, Q, Drew and others have said and even those I more so disagree with have made some good points.

- I'm 100% for getting the vaccine/booster/whatever you want to call it for multiple reasons. It reduces the severity of illness should you get it, reduces your chance of getting it and by reducing the spread of it, also reducing the chance it mutates and gets worse. I have family with higher risk factors. My mom has a few auto immune issues and while I'm very very confident in my immune system (I rarely ever get sick), I also have a history of asthma.

- I don't feel great about government mandates, but understand why they happen for certain things and in some cases are necessary (all the big ones we get as kids that stop horribly maiming/deadly diseases). I just wish people would just stop listening to BS and trust the actual experts who do the work, study it and have spent years on it.

- One of the biggest issues I have with how everything was handled is how they didn't talk about physical health and obesity, especially early on. I support wearing masks, social distancing, getting the vaccine, etc, but it doesn't just stop there. They needed to talk about physical health, getting exercise/going for walks, getting fresh air, etc. It's so frustrating how our society & country so often fail attack problems from many angles.

- The media and politicians certainly have played a role in the divisive shit show it has become. While I think certain outlets/politicians have done far far more harm than others, there's some fault with all areas of the spectrum. We've had people sensationalize, exaggerate or twist Covid stats/information, spew nonsense and conspiracy garbage, others act like it's the same as the flu, etc. It's disgusting and disappointing how people politicized a public health issue.

- Yes, you are responsible for other people's health & safety to some degree. It is your responsibility to mitigate any ill effects you can pass to or cause another person. It's really that simple. You obviously are not responsible for people's individual health, but you are responsible for your effect on others. If you disregard the fact you are sick and knowingly go around an immune compromised person, they get what you have and get badly sick or die or you go to work with the flu and get half your office sick, you would absolutely be at fault there. Just a couple examples of personal responsibility toward others.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I hope this is my final comment in this thread, but given that I seem to be one of the few people -- maybe the only one -- on this board that has an opposing view on this matter I feel responsible for expressing the other side of the argument.

For the most part, unvaccinated people are not expressing that people should or should not get the vaccine. That's not the issue on their minds. On the contrary, the belief is that every American can and should educate themselves to the best of their abilities and make their own decisions based on their individual risk factors and medical history. Right or wrong, it's their choice to make. That's the key. I'll also add that from what I've seen there has been no ill will from unvaccinated folks towards those that chose to receive the vaccine. I wish I could say the same vice versa. There's been a lot of ugliness from one particular side of things.

Additionally, there's a major flaw in the argument of those that support vaccine mandates including the Biden-Harris Administration who are implementing them.

"The bottom line: We're going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers." - Joe Biden; 9 September 2021

If you believe that the vaccine is safe and effective, and you have chosen to get vaccinated, then you are protected from said virus. Agreed? That's the thought anyways, right? Well, the idea that the federal government needs to impose mandates to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated even though the former are already protected because they received said vaccine is absolutely ludicrous. There is no refuting how ridiculous that strategy is. That is like saying we must protect people that use contraceptives from people that don't. It's mental gymnastics.

Furthermore, we must stop this idea that the experts have one singular conclusion. That could not be further from the truth during this entire pandemic. We must also stop accusing those on the other side of not "following the science" or trusting the experts. What some virologists/epidemiologists conclude may differ from their colleagues. They are all experts in their fields regardless of if their findings differ from your position.

Simply put, Americans who chose to receive the vaccine have made their decision. Americans who chose NOT to receive the vaccine have also made their decision. The prior administration successfully accomplished the mission of getting these vaccines and being able to distribute them. The current administration should continue to educate -- EDUCATE, not persuade or bribe -- the American people so that they can make the best decisions for themselves. That's it.

Lastly, none of us are responsible for each other's health. Apparently, that is an ideological difference. I truly applaud those that feel like they should take certain measures for their fellow citizens, but it is not your responsibility to do so. Personal accountability gets lost in this discussion. Every American should be doing whatever they feel is necessary to stay healthy and alive. If someone has more risk factors, then they should be taking even more action than others to protect themselves. Whether that means wearing masks, getting vaccinated, quarantining, etc., it's up to them to do so. My responsibility is to make sure that I've done what I feel is necessary to stay healthy. For me, that means daily exercise and sun exposure, balanced nutrition, adequate hydration, and practicing good personal hygiene. For others, that may look different. But it's on you and whatever resources you value to create and follow your own strategy -- not me (or anyone else). And it certainly isn't the federal government's responsibility to force us to do anything related to personal health and well-being.

That's where I'll leave this. I've said what I wanted to say in response to this thread and I do sincerely hope that everyone on this board stays healthy, educated, and protected regardless of our differences.

[TAFKASP]

I hope this is my final comment in this thread, but given that I seem to be one of the few people -- maybe the only one -- on this board that has an opposing view on this matter I feel responsible for expressing the other side of the argument.

For the most part, unvaccinated people are not expressing that people should or should not get the vaccine. That's not the issue on their minds. On the contrary, the belief is that every American can and should educate themselves to the best of their abilities and make their own decisions based on their individual risk factors and medical history. Right or wrong, it's their choice to make. That's the key. I'll also add that from what I've seen there has been no ill will from unvaccinated folks towards those that chose to receive the vaccine. I wish I could say the same vice versa. There's been a lot of ugliness from one particular side of things.

Additionally, there's a major flaw in the argument of those that support vaccine mandates including the Biden-Harris Administration who are implementing them.

"The bottom line: We're going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers." - Joe Biden; 9 September 2021

If you believe that the vaccine is safe and effective, and you have chosen to get vaccinated, then you are protected from said virus. Agreed? That's the thought anyways, right? Well, the idea that the federal government needs to impose mandates to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated even though the former are already protected because they received said vaccine is absolutely ludicrous. There is no refuting how ridiculous that strategy is. That is like saying we must protect people that use contraceptives from people that don't. It's mental gymnastics.

Furthermore, we must stop this idea that the experts have one singular conclusion. That could not be further from the truth during this entire pandemic. We must also stop accusing those on the other side of not "following the science" or trusting the experts. What some virologists/epidemiologists conclude may differ from their colleagues. They are all experts in their fields regardless of if their findings differ from your position.

Simply put, Americans who chose to receive the vaccine have made their decision. Americans who chose NOT to receive the vaccine have also made their decision. The prior administration successfully accomplished the mission of getting these vaccines and being able to distribute them. The current administration should continue to educate -- EDUCATE, not persuade or bribe -- the American people so that they can make the best decisions for themselves. That's it.

Lastly, none of us are responsible for each other's health. Apparently, that is an ideological difference. I truly applaud those that feel like they should take certain measures for their fellow citizens, but it is not your responsibility to do so. Personal accountability gets lost in this discussion. Every American should be doing whatever they feel is necessary to stay healthy and alive. If someone has more risk factors, then they should be taking even more action than others to protect themselves. Whether that means wearing masks, getting vaccinated, quarantining, etc., it's up to them to do so. My responsibility is to make sure that I've done what I feel is necessary to stay healthy. For me, that means daily exercise and sun exposure, balanced nutrition, adequate hydration, and practicing good personal hygiene. For others, that may look different. But it's on you and whatever resources you value to create and follow your own strategy -- not me (or anyone else). And it certainly isn't the federal government's responsibility to force us to do anything related to personal health and well-being.

That's where I'll leave this. I've said what I wanted to say in response to this thread and I do sincerely hope that everyone on this board stays healthy, educated, and protected regardless of our differences.

I got the vaccine, but I am 100% in favor of people making their own choices. I am 100% against any sort of mandate, and 110% against passports. It's a free country, I am not a subject of the government, the government works for us.

Edit: I realized after posting the above how stupid it sounds to say this disfunctional government works for anything, especially us.

Carry on

[Coolbreeze44]

I hope this is my final comment in this thread, but given that I seem to be one of the few people -- maybe the only one -- on this board that has an opposing view on this matter I feel responsible for expressing the other side of the argument.

For the most part, unvaccinated people are not expressing that people should or should not get the vaccine. That's not the issue on their minds. On the contrary, the belief is that every American can and should educate themselves to the best of their abilities and make their own decisions based on their individual risk factors and medical history. Right or wrong, it's their choice to make. That's the key. I'll also add that from what I've seen there has been no ill will from unvaccinated folks towards those that chose to receive the vaccine. I wish I could say the same vice versa. There's been a lot of ugliness from one particular side of things.

Additionally, there's a major flaw in the argument of those that support vaccine mandates including the Biden-Harris Administration who are implementing them.

"The bottom line: We're going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers." - Joe Biden; 9 September 2021

If you believe that the vaccine is safe and effective, and you have chosen to get vaccinated, then you are protected from said virus. Agreed? That's the thought anyways, right? Well, the idea that the federal government needs to impose mandates to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated even though the former are already protected because they received said vaccine is absolutely ludicrous. There is no refuting how ridiculous that strategy is. That is like saying we must protect people that use contraceptives from people that don't. It's mental gymnastics.

Furthermore, we must stop this idea that the experts have one singular conclusion. That could not be further from the truth during this entire pandemic. We must also stop accusing those on the other side of not "following the science" or trusting the experts. What some virologists/epidemiologists conclude may differ from their colleagues. They are all experts in their fields regardless of if their findings differ from your position.

Simply put, Americans who chose to receive the vaccine have made their decision. Americans who chose NOT to receive the vaccine have also made their decision. The prior administration successfully accomplished the mission of getting these vaccines and being able to distribute them. The current administration should continue to educate -- EDUCATE, not persuade or bribe -- the American people so that they can make the best decisions for themselves. That's it.

Lastly, none of us are responsible for each other's health. Apparently, that is an ideological difference. I truly applaud those that feel like they should take certain measures for their fellow citizens, but it is not your responsibility to do so. Personal accountability gets lost in this discussion. Every American should be doing whatever they feel is necessary to stay healthy and alive. If someone has more risk factors, then they should be taking even more action than others to protect themselves. Whether that means wearing masks, getting vaccinated, quarantining, etc., it's up to them to do so. My responsibility is to make sure that I've done what I feel is necessary to stay healthy. For me, that means daily exercise and sun exposure, balanced nutrition, adequate hydration, and practicing good personal hygiene. For others, that may look different. But it's on you and whatever resources you value to create and follow your own strategy -- not me (or anyone else). And it certainly isn't the federal government's responsibility to force us to do anything related to personal health and well-being.

That's where I'll leave this. I've said what I wanted to say in response to this thread and I do sincerely hope that everyone on this board stays healthy, educated, and protected regardless of our differences.

I got the vaccine, but I am 100% in favor of people making their own choices. I am 100% against any sort of mandate, and 110% against passports. It's a free country, I am not a subject of the government, the government works for us.

Edit: I realized after posting the above how stupid it sounds to say this disfunctional government works for anything, especially us.

Carry on

I'm totally with SP and I endorse this post.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Cam, I realize your argument is made in good faith. I don't believe the personal responsibility difference is an ideological one in my case - it's a situationall one. I do indeed believe there is a societal obligation when it comes to battling pandemics that goes beyond taking care of yourself.

Here is the difference.....If a person without natural immunity (i.e. having had covid in the recent past) decides not to get a vaccine and then proceeds to get covid without any symptoms (not uncommon in younger, healthy people), that person could unwittingly spread it to others assuming he or she moves about freely and lives his or her life normally. Some of those people that it spreads to may have unpreventable health conditions - like old age, duh! - that make them more vulnerable, even after having received a vaccine. So if that elderly person catches the virus from the unvaccinated person, where does the personal responsibility lie? Does it sit with the elderly person for being....old? Well, that's kind of ridiculous. Or does it sit with the young, healthy person that never bothered to get vaccinated and passed it on to the older person?

Of course the other more rudimentary example from a different sphere that has been mentioned previously is someone that decides to get drunk, drive a car, and then proceeds to badly injure another driver in an accident. Is the person that decided to get drunk not at all obligated to the health and safety of others on the road?

In both cases, there is absolutely some obligation by the individual to be mindful of the health and well being of the broader community.