lipoli390 wrote:Abe - It's not about the Bulls doing a favor for the Wolves. It's about the fact that they have no bargaining power because it's totally up to Markkanen. He'll decide who he want to play for - probably based mainly on how much he can make. Then the Bulls will have to decide whether to let him go in a sign-and-trade or keep him in spite of his desire to leave and end up getting nothing for him when he leaves as an UFA next summer.
Also, while the Bulls execs have no interest in appeasing Wolves management, they will definitely want to avoid pissing off Markkanen's agent. All NBA execs are careful to cultivate favor with agents. It's part of the business of basketball. It's a minor factor, but it's definitely a factor.
Bottom line is that Markkanen will end up where he wants to go and the Bulls can't expect anything more than a nominal return, which is better than keeping a guy they don't want and getting no return next year. If the Bulls decide the hold on to him in the hope they can trade him later this year, in spite of what Markkanen and his agent might want, then so be it. It's not like Marrkanen is going to be a franchise-turner for the Wolves. But I think the real issue now is whether the Wolves and Markkanen can come to agreement on a contract. If it's true that Markkanen is seeking $20M per year, then let him stay in Chicago and be miserable for a year.
But they want him more than Culver, Layman and Juancho.
They might want Kekgeek, Q and Cam more than they want those guys. Sadly for our trio here... none of them are in the playoff rotation for a team desperate to make the playoffs based on recent signings and trades. They're already mortgaging their future to make the playoffs. Why change course now... if the only return is bad NBA players and middling mathematically unlikely-to-pan-out draft picks?
lipoli390 wrote:Abe - It's not about the Bulls doing a favor for the Wolves. It's about the fact that they have no bargaining power because it's totally up to Markkanen. He'll decide who he want to play for - probably based mainly on how much he can make. Then the Bulls will have to decide whether to let him go in a sign-and-trade or keep him in spite of his desire to leave and end up getting nothing for him when he leaves as an UFA next summer.
Also, while the Bulls execs have no interest in appeasing Wolves management, they will definitely want to avoid pissing off Markkanen's agent. All NBA execs are careful to cultivate favor with agents. It's part of the business of basketball. It's a minor factor, but it's definitely a factor.
Bottom line is that Markkanen will end up where he wants to go and the Bulls can't expect anything more than a nominal return, which is better than keeping a guy they don't want and getting no return next year. If the Bulls decide the hold on to him in the hope they can trade him later this year, in spite of what Markkanen and his agent might want, then so be it. It's not like Marrkanen is going to be a franchise-turner for the Wolves. But I think the real issue now is whether the Wolves and Markkanen can come to agreement on a contract. If it's true that Markkanen is seeking $20M per year, then let him stay in Chicago and be miserable for a year.
But they want him more than Culver, Layman and Juancho.
They might want Kekgeek, Q and Cam more than they want those guys. Sadly for our trio here... none of them are in the playoff rotation for a team desperate to make the playoffs based on recent signings and trades. They're already mortgaging their future to make the playoffs. Why change course now... if the only return is bad NBA players and middling mathematically unlikely-to-pan-out draft picks?
Lol. Abe, you're on a roll this morning. My take-away from your post is to include Kek, Q and Cam in the offer. :)
I am with Abe on this one. There is just no way the Bulls accept a S&T that features the likes of Culver, Juancho and other garbage. Oh, and the vaunted 2nd rounder.
I get the point Lip makes about the Bulls having little power.....but the team with even LESS influence and power are the Wolves. We clearly can't sign an offer sheet without a S&T in place, as we have no cap room. I am NOT one that believes a team will agree to horrible trade just to stay in good graces with an agent or two.
If the Bulls make a trade, it is HIGHLY likely they see much better assets than guys being discussed here. While Mark is a flawed player, I think we saw many examples in past week of severely flawed players making bank. Mark is no different.
Meh, I don't think he moves the needle for Wolves anyways. Not a fan.
lipoli390 wrote:Abe - It's not about the Bulls doing a favor for the Wolves. It's about the fact that they have no bargaining power because it's totally up to Markkanen. He'll decide who he want to play for - probably based mainly on how much he can make. Then the Bulls will have to decide whether to let him go in a sign-and-trade or keep him in spite of his desire to leave and end up getting nothing for him when he leaves as an UFA next summer.
Also, while the Bulls execs have no interest in appeasing Wolves management, they will definitely want to avoid pissing off Markkanen's agent. All NBA execs are careful to cultivate favor with agents. It's part of the business of basketball. It's a minor factor, but it's definitely a factor.
Bottom line is that Markkanen will end up where he wants to go and the Bulls can't expect anything more than a nominal return, which is better than keeping a guy they don't want and getting no return next year. If the Bulls decide the hold on to him in the hope they can trade him later this year, in spite of what Markkanen and his agent might want, then so be it. It's not like Marrkanen is going to be a franchise-turner for the Wolves. But I think the real issue now is whether the Wolves and Markkanen can come to agreement on a contract. If it's true that Markkanen is seeking $20M per year, then let him stay in Chicago and be miserable for a year.
But they want him more than Culver, Layman and Juancho.
They might want Kekgeek, Q and Cam more than they want those guys. Sadly for our trio here... none of them are in the playoff rotation for a team desperate to make the playoffs based on recent signings and trades. They're already mortgaging their future to make the playoffs. Why change course now... if the only return is bad NBA players and middling mathematically unlikely-to-pan-out draft picks?
Lol. Abe, you're on a roll this morning. My take-away from your post is to include Kek, Q and Cam in the offer. :)
Sorry, I've got a no-trade clause. To counter that, the Wolves put in a "no play and stay away" clause into my deal.
Lip the Bulls still have plenty of leverage. That's why it's called Restrictive Free agency. :) I think the Bulls would rather let Markkanen walk and sign FAs of their own choosing than to add guys they don't really want that are way overpaid just for a 2nd rounder. I'm sure the Bulls would be just fine getting Markkanen back for the qualifying offer even if they get nothing if he walks next season. They don't exactly have any depth at PF right now. I also think if they got what the wanted in terms of a draft pick or some other asset they probably wouldn't hate having Juancho as a guy they could play some minutes. He isn't great but he doesn't suck it's just he is overpaid for being maybe a rotation player.
Markkanen can flex by saying where he wants to go but if the team that wants him doesn't meet their demands (which could be fair) then he is stuck. Would you be ok if the spurs offered Vanderbilt 10 million a year (see I can be funny too) and said we will give you a 2nd round pick and you have to take Aminu back. No way would you ok that and go into the Luxury tax for a 2nd round pick and an old guy that might be useful but no way we would want to have to pay him 10 million.
Sidenote: I've thought of of some various minor trades where the Wolves move a guy or a couple of guys to get Aminu but nothing has made much sense.
monsterpile wrote:Lip the Bulls still have plenty of leverage. That's why it's called Restrictive Free agency. :) I think the Bulls would rather let Markkanen walk and sign FAs of their own choosing than to add guys they don't really want that are way overpaid just for a 2nd rounder. I'm sure the Bulls would be just fine getting Markkanen back for the qualifying offer even if they get nothing if he walks next season. They don't exactly have any depth at PF right now. I also think if they got what the wanted in terms of a draft pick or some other asset they probably wouldn't hate having Juancho as a guy they could play some minutes. He isn't great but he doesn't suck it's just he is overpaid for being maybe a rotation player.
Markkanen can flex by saying where he wants to go but if the team that wants him doesn't meet their demands (which could be fair) then he is stuck. Would you be ok if the spurs offered Vanderbilt 10 million a year (see I can be funny too) and said we will give you a 2nd round pick and you have to take Aminu back. No way would you ok that and go into the Luxury tax for a 2nd round pick and an old guy that might be useful but no way we would want to have to pay him 10 million.
Sidenote: I've thought of of some various minor trades where the Wolves move a guy or a couple of guys to get Aminu but nothing has made much sense.
That analogy doesn't make sense. I want to keep Vanderbilt, so I extended the QO in an effort to keep him without paying more than I perceive his market value to be. In contrast, the Bulls don't want to keep Markkanen. They extended the QO to see if they can get something in return if he signs elsewhere, but they're not interested in keeping him.
Nevertheless, in you hypothetical, even though I like and really want to keep Vanderbilt, if a team offered him $10M per year, I'm obviously not going to match and he'll end up leaving as a restricted free agent.
Shams Charania: The Charlotte Hornets have emerged with strong interest in a potential offer sheet for Chicago restricted free agent Lauri Markkanen...
Time to move on from Markkanen. Focus on Hartenstein, WCS or even Kaminsky. Or focus on getting a defensive wing like Winslow or Oubre. The Wolves simply don't have the assets to be a major player in the free agent or trade market this summer. That shouldn't be a surprise. The time to strike is next summer when we'll have far more financial flexibility and a number of draft picks. We ought to keep the little powder we have dry and light the fuse when we have more ammo next year.
Shams Charania: The Charlotte Hornets have emerged with strong interest in a potential offer sheet for Chicago restricted free agent Lauri Markkanen...
Time to move on from Markkanen. Focus on Hartenstein, WCS or even Kaminsky. Or focus on getting a defensive wing like Winslow or Oubre. The Wolves simply don't have the assets to be a major player in the free agent or trade market this summer. That shouldn't be a surprise. The time to strike is next summer when we'll have far more financial flexibility and a number of draft picks. We ought to keep the little powder we have dry and light the fuse when we have more ammo next year.
Not sure Oubre recognizes defense any better than DLO does....
Shams Charania: The Charlotte Hornets have emerged with strong interest in a potential offer sheet for Chicago restricted free agent Lauri Markkanen...
Time to move on from Markkanen. Focus on Hartenstein, WCS or even Kaminsky. Or focus on getting a defensive wing like Winslow or Oubre. The Wolves simply don't have the assets to be a major player in the free agent or trade market this summer. That shouldn't be a surprise. The time to strike is next summer when we'll have far more financial flexibility and a number of draft picks. We ought to keep the little powder we have dry and light the fuse when we have more ammo next year.
Not sure Oubre recognizes defense any better than DLO does....
Interesting. I've always assumed he's a good defensive player. But I confess I haven't watching him play much and I've never looked at his defensive stats. Is he really that bad, Q?