Rubio to Cleveland for

[Tactical unit]

I don't understand how people view this Rubio deal as a bad trade. We got a 2nd that projects to be high and have found plenty of late 1st, 2nd round or undrafted players that have shown well since Rosas took over. I would take a cheap / upside play of McDaniels, Bolmaro, Nowell, Reid, and even J-Mac over the dull production of Rubio. That 2nd could be a similar talent to any player I listed. We gained cap space and a player (Prince) that if he can shoot 38-41% from 3pt range and he has shown that's within his skill set, then he himself can probably be traded for a 2nd.

I won't even go into how Rubio affects the team vs what I would expect out of Bolmaro or J-Mac and just keep it short saying it's a plus to move on from Rubio.

Last year James Johnson & #17 for Rubio #25 & #28 with Rubio coming off a really good season in PHX. What was Rubio worth in that deal?

More than a 2nd?

If so by how much?

For the people that thought Rubio was a trade asset that we now don't have, your right we got more value now in a highly projected 2nd and a NBA caliber outside shooter on a cheaper expiring deal. The added benefit of saving money and opening up playing time for Bolmaro who if he was in the draft would have likely went in the teens.

Coming out of PHX on a good year Rubio wasn't worth much to the league, this years trade was a good move!

[Lipoli390]

I don't understand how people view this Rubio deal as a bad trade. We got a 2nd that projects to be high and have found plenty of late 1st, 2nd round or undrafted players that have shown well since Rosas took over. I would take a cheap / upside play of McDaniels, Bolmaro, Nowell, Reid, and even J-Mac over the dull production of Rubio. That 2nd could be a similar talent to any player I listed. We gained cap space and a player (Prince) that if he can shoot 38-41% from 3pt range and he has shown that's within his skill set, then he himself can probably be traded for a 2nd.

I won't even go into how Rubio affects the team vs what I would expect out of Bolmaro or J-Mac and just keep it short saying it's a plus to move on from Rubio.

Last year James Johnson & #17 for Rubio #25 & #28 with Rubio coming off a really good season in PHX. What was Rubio worth in that deal?

More than a 2nd?

If so by how much?

For the people that thought Rubio was a trade asset that we now don't have, your right we got more value now in a highly projected 2nd and a NBA caliber outside shooter on a cheaper expiring deal. The added benefit of saving money and opening up playing time for Bolmaro who if he was in the draft would have likely went in the teens.

Coming out of PHX on a good year Rubio wasn't worth much to the league, this years trade was a good move!

All good points, Tac.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't understand how people view this Rubio deal as a bad trade. We got a 2nd that projects to be high and have found plenty of late 1st, 2nd round or undrafted players that have shown well since Rosas took over. I would take a cheap / upside play of McDaniels, Bolmaro, Nowell, Reid, and even J-Mac over the dull production of Rubio. That 2nd could be a similar talent to any player I listed. We gained cap space and a player (Prince) that if he can shoot 38-41% from 3pt range and he has shown that's within his skill set, then he himself can probably be traded for a 2nd.

I won't even go into how Rubio affects the team vs what I would expect out of Bolmaro or J-Mac and just keep it short saying it's a plus to move on from Rubio.

Last year James Johnson & #17 for Rubio #25 & #28 with Rubio coming off a really good season in PHX. What was Rubio worth in that deal?

More than a 2nd?

If so by how much?

For the people that thought Rubio was a trade asset that we now don't have, your right we got more value now in a highly projected 2nd and a NBA caliber outside shooter on a cheaper expiring deal. The added benefit of saving money and opening up playing time for Bolmaro who if he was in the draft would have likely went in the teens.

Coming out of PHX on a good year Rubio wasn't worth much to the league, this years trade was a good move!

When looking at this trade in pure isolation without considering the other dominoes that may or may not fall, a lot of us feel like Prince is a downgrade compared to Rubio. Now if Rubio craps the bed in the first half of the season again, perhaps we'd be wrong. But given his solid play to end last season and really strong play during the Olympics, it appears that he'll have his legs under him and be in much better shape to start the season.

I'm holding out judgment until we see what Rosas does with that added salary flexibility. Also, I am worried about the backup PG spot.

[Lipoli390]

I don't understand how people view this Rubio deal as a bad trade. We got a 2nd that projects to be high and have found plenty of late 1st, 2nd round or undrafted players that have shown well since Rosas took over. I would take a cheap / upside play of McDaniels, Bolmaro, Nowell, Reid, and even J-Mac over the dull production of Rubio. That 2nd could be a similar talent to any player I listed. We gained cap space and a player (Prince) that if he can shoot 38-41% from 3pt range and he has shown that's within his skill set, then he himself can probably be traded for a 2nd.

I won't even go into how Rubio affects the team vs what I would expect out of Bolmaro or J-Mac and just keep it short saying it's a plus to move on from Rubio.

Last year James Johnson & #17 for Rubio #25 & #28 with Rubio coming off a really good season in PHX. What was Rubio worth in that deal?

More than a 2nd?

If so by how much?

For the people that thought Rubio was a trade asset that we now don't have, your right we got more value now in a highly projected 2nd and a NBA caliber outside shooter on a cheaper expiring deal. The added benefit of saving money and opening up playing time for Bolmaro who if he was in the draft would have likely went in the teens.

Coming out of PHX on a good year Rubio wasn't worth much to the league, this years trade was a good move!

When looking at this trade in pure isolation without considering the other dominoes that may or may not fall, a lot of us feel like Prince is a downgrade compared to Rubio. Now if Rubio craps the bed in the first half of the season again, perhaps we'd be wrong. But given his solid play to end last season and really strong play during the Olympics, it appears that he'll have his legs under him and be in much better shape to start the season.

I'm holding out judgment until we see what Rosas does with that added salary flexibility. Also, I am worried about the backup PG spot.

Those are my thoughts, too, Q. I think we've downgraded going from Ricky to Price. But like you, I see potential benefit in the additional salary flexibility the deal has provided. And the more I reflect, the more I see value in the 2022 2nd-round pick we received as part of the deal. Because it's the Wizards' pick and, therefore, likely to be fairly high, I think it has meaningful trade value for the Wolves as they pursue deals for an impactful big.

To that end, here's what I would consider a fairly attractive package of future picks to include with a player or two in exchange for a big:

- Wolves 2023 1st-round pick (top 10 protected)
- Wolves own 2022 2nd-round pick
- Wizards 2022 2nd round pick acquired in Rubio deal

[Monster]

I don't understand how people view this Rubio deal as a bad trade. We got a 2nd that projects to be high and have found plenty of late 1st, 2nd round or undrafted players that have shown well since Rosas took over. I would take a cheap / upside play of McDaniels, Bolmaro, Nowell, Reid, and even J-Mac over the dull production of Rubio. That 2nd could be a similar talent to any player I listed. We gained cap space and a player (Prince) that if he can shoot 38-41% from 3pt range and he has shown that's within his skill set, then he himself can probably be traded for a 2nd.

I won't even go into how Rubio affects the team vs what I would expect out of Bolmaro or J-Mac and just keep it short saying it's a plus to move on from Rubio.

Last year James Johnson & #17 for Rubio #25 & #28 with Rubio coming off a really good season in PHX. What was Rubio worth in that deal?

More than a 2nd?

If so by how much?

For the people that thought Rubio was a trade asset that we now don't have, your right we got more value now in a highly projected 2nd and a NBA caliber outside shooter on a cheaper expiring deal. The added benefit of saving money and opening up playing time for Bolmaro who if he was in the draft would have likely went in the teens.

Coming out of PHX on a good year Rubio wasn't worth much to the league, this years trade was a good move!

When looking at this trade in pure isolation without considering the other dominoes that may or may not fall, a lot of us feel like Prince is a downgrade compared to Rubio. Now if Rubio craps the bed in the first half of the season again, perhaps we'd be wrong. But given his solid play to end last season and really strong play during the Olympics, it appears that he'll have his legs under him and be in much better shape to start the season.

I'm holding out judgment until we see what Rosas does with that added salary flexibility. Also, I am worried about the backup PG spot.

Those are my thoughts, too, Q. I think we've downgraded going from Ricky to Price. But like you, I see potential benefit in the additional salary flexibility the deal has provided. And the more I reflect, the more I see value in the 2022 2nd-round pick we received as part of the deal. Because it's the Wizards' pick and, therefore, likely to be fairly high, I think it has meaningful trade value for the Wolves as they pursue deals for an impactful big.

To that end, here's what I would consider a fairly attractive package of future picks to include with a player or two in exchange for a big:

- Wolves 2023 1st-round pick (top 10 protected)
- Wolves own 2022 2nd-round pick
- Wizards 2022 2nd round pick acquired in Rubio deal

Wolves also have the 2nd they acquired for Butler which isn't a big deal but it's something.

2022 -- Owed the higher second-rounder from the Philadelphia 76ers or the Denver Nuggets (Wilson Chandler, Jimmy Butler). -Basketball Insiders


The Wolves also got 2.5 million in cash which Marc Lore and Arod have pledged to distribute to fans once they take over the franchise. lol jk FWIW Jon K said Lore and Arod are going to jump in and be involved pretty much right away in terms of some of the business parts of the franchise. It sounds like they are going to be specifically doing things working on marketing the team and adding to the fan experience.

As Tac basically pointed out Rubio did have positive value. Nearly 5 million in saved salary and a decent player in Prine plus a possibly valuable 2nd round pick plus the Wolves got some cash means there was likely at least another offer out there. In some ways this trade is like when the Wolves traded Rubio the first time. It's not about what the Wolves got back from the trade it's what they did with it. The first time they used that cap space to sign Teague and that was not a good use of resources over the life of the contract. Okogie has been a decent player with that pick but he isn't a good enough player to make the trade a win. I still think the first trade for Rubio was a good one at the time and Okogie was a decent pick outside the lottery but ultimately what the Wolves got from dealing Rubio was not super exciting. I think for his faults Teague was a legit contributor to the playoff run though but I'm lot sure he would have been significantly better than Rubio. I know I'm a big fan of drafting guys because eod what they can become but...Okogie while I still like him is an example of if you can trade for a guy that can help now might be worthwhile.

So when we look at what the Wolves got back in this deal:

What are the Wolves and Rosas going to do with the addition salary flexibility?

Will Prince be a solid player for the team this year?

Will the 2nd round pick end up being a worthwhile player or used wisely in a trade?

Will some other young player step up with the opportunity of Rubio being gone?

Do the Wolves sign a solid vet PG for cheap to replace Rubio?

Idk we have to wait and see. To be honest if this trade is what allows the Wolves to just keep Vanderbilt it MIGHT be a win just for that reason. There are a lot of ways for this trade to go well (or make sense) for the Wolves. The Wolves currently don't have a backup PG but moving Rubio does still open up at least a little more opportunities for a team which a bunch of perimeter players.

[Tactical unit]

I don't understand how people view this Rubio deal as a bad trade. We got a 2nd that projects to be high and have found plenty of late 1st, 2nd round or undrafted players that have shown well since Rosas took over. I would take a cheap / upside play of McDaniels, Bolmaro, Nowell, Reid, and even J-Mac over the dull production of Rubio. That 2nd could be a similar talent to any player I listed. We gained cap space and a player (Prince) that if he can shoot 38-41% from 3pt range and he has shown that's within his skill set, then he himself can probably be traded for a 2nd.

I won't even go into how Rubio affects the team vs what I would expect out of Bolmaro or J-Mac and just keep it short saying it's a plus to move on from Rubio.

Last year James Johnson & #17 for Rubio #25 & #28 with Rubio coming off a really good season in PHX. What was Rubio worth in that deal?

More than a 2nd?

If so by how much?

For the people that thought Rubio was a trade asset that we now don't have, your right we got more value now in a highly projected 2nd and a NBA caliber outside shooter on a cheaper expiring deal. The added benefit of saving money and opening up playing time for Bolmaro who if he was in the draft would have likely went in the teens.

Coming out of PHX on a good year Rubio wasn't worth much to the league, this years trade was a good move!

When looking at this trade in pure isolation without considering the other dominoes that may or may not fall, a lot of us feel like Prince is a downgrade compared to Rubio. Now if Rubio craps the bed in the first half of the season again, perhaps we'd be wrong. But given his solid play to end last season and really strong play during the Olympics, it appears that he'll have his legs under him and be in much better shape to start the season.

I'm holding out judgment until we see what Rosas does with that added salary flexibility. Also, I am worried about the backup PG spot.

Prince isn't the prize in this deal, his expiring deal and being paid less are major factors in the deal. If McDaniels is the starting SF like I think he will be then Prince as a backup SF that has shown ability to shoot threes well is an upgrade to Layman & Hernangomez.

I'm a lot more excited to think of what our 2nd unit might produce with Bolmaro or J-Mac running the show. Even if the money were used to go another route at PG which I don't think it will be, but if it was another guy I would still be more excited for the 2nd unit. The reasoning being that I kinda know what Rubio will do and with new blood striving to prove themselves I see it as a path to improve this team. Also a new PG is probably on a longer deal where Rubio was likely gone after this year and aging. Getting slightly better production out of Rubio as he is only getting older wasn't a lock to me, and this squad needs to improve. Giving Bolmaro the keys to the 2nd unit is one way we can hope for improvement and if he's less productive than Rubio then J-Mac or the next man up gets a shot. At least you have hope in finding a better player and long term option.

We all want a rim protector, rebounder or defensive minded big and this is where the prize of the trade comes into play that 2nd from Washington is likely to be high. In my opinion your best path to maxing out value is via the draft and while we try and figure out trades or what FA would be great the most likely path to MN finding that desired big is probably with a draft pick. I tried to stick with defensive or rebounding bigs only and here is what teams have found late in the 1st and 2nd round. R. WIllimas III, M. Robinson, Siakam, Nance Jr, Looney, Harrell, Capela, Jokic, Gobert, D. Green :) I'll take anyone of those players for Ricky add in that there were other good players taken and you see why the prize of that trade was the draft pick for both it's potential to land a good player being used organically or as a trading chip.

[Monster]

I think it's worth noting that the Raptors a team that would have made sense as a Rubio landing spot ended up with Dragic who is just slightly more expensive than Rubio and Precious A. who has a lot of fans here. It would not be surprising if Rosas had an inkling that the Raptors already had their guy lined up.

[kekgeek]

The Taurean Prince deal being completed before the new year means Prince's contract cannot be aggregated in another trade.

For Cleveland, the motivation, a source says, of acting now is that the cash they send out is from this past season's allotment rather than next season's.

Per Dane

[kekgeek]

To clarify here:
- Had the Wolves waited til Aug 6, the trade exception they got would have been for $4.8M rather than $4M
- Finalizing deal makes it so Prince cannot be traded w/ another player (aka aggregated)
- CLE can now use full amount of cash in a trade next calendar year

Per Dane

[kekgeek]

In other words, to take in the $2.5M in cash from CLE in the Rubio-Prince trade, those were the sacrifices made.

Perhaps it leads to more out-of-pocket spending.

Per Dane