monsterpile wrote:Let's throw out another option for a young player to possibly acquire.
What would you give up for Moses Brown? He was very productive last year and maybe he isn't legit but watching some highlights he is literally behind and reaching over Embiid and getting rebounds and tips. He is 7'1.25" tall without shoes and has a 7'4.75" wingspan. That's a big dude. He is signed for basically the vet min for the next 3 years so that could be an cheap contract if he is a nice player. I haven't seen him play enough to say I would give up a lottery protected first to get him but honestly I'm tempted to do so partly because of that value contract.
I'm a Moses Brown believer. He was on a shortlist of young defensive-minded bigs that I thought would be good trade targets. He's long, athletic, mobile, and as you said, he's locked into a very team-friendly deal.
I'll answer your question by asking another question. If you were the decision-maker for another franchise, what would you be willing to trade for Naz Reid? Their contracts make it that much more difficult, although not impossible, and they're clearly productive in some capacity. I'd have to think a first-round pick is the asking price for Reid unless included in a bigger deal. My assessment would be that Brown is similarly valued. I wonder if Jaylen Nowell would interest Dallas considering they're thinner in the backcourt than they are in the frontcourt.
That's a good question Cam. I agree I don't think I trade Naz for anything less than a 1st rounder either. Here is another question...would you trade Naz for Moses Brown? I'm not sure why Dallas would consider that but would you do it? I would want to be more familiar with Brown's game before I pulled the trigger as I really like Naz.
Dallas would absolutely trade Moses Brown for Naz Reid - in a heartbeat. The only question is whether the Wolves should make the offer. My answer is no. I'm intrigued by Moses Brown and have been high on him for a while, but Naz has shown a lot more game so far in his career and still has a lot of upside left. Would Dallas swap Brown for Jake Layman? I'd like to think so, but I doubt it. Jake and a future 2nd-round pick? Maybe that would be enough for Dallas. If so, I'd pull the trigger on that if I were Rosas. Cam suggested that Dallas might be interested in Nowell. I can see that. Would the Mavs swap Brown for Jaylen? I think so. Should Rosas make that deal if it's available? I'm not sure. I'm still high on Nowell. I'd rather sign Hartenstein as a free agent than give up Nowell to get Moses Brown.
Jake Layman would be a negative asset I'm not sure why you are trying to add him into the Brown trade.
If we could do a Nowell for Brown deal I would consider it. Why? For one thing Brown is locked in for an additional cheap year which is valuable. Q is also making me question Nowell a bit and his summer league performance in the 3 games I have seen was just good and I was hoping for more. At this point I would feel better about dealing away Nowell than Naz like you said.
Monster - Jake is not a negative asset. He's an athletic, fairly long and skilled player with a nice-looking shooting stroke that makes him look like a guy who can be a consistently good 3-point guy. He's also on a relatively cheap, expiring contract. His contract alone gives him value. My hypothetical included the Wolves attaching a 2nd-round pick to the outgoing Layman as part of the deal. That's not a negative haul for Dallas. But as I said, I still don't think Dallas would do it.
I agree with you on preferring to deal Nowell rather than Naz for Brown. But as I said, I wouldn't deal either one if I could sign Hartenstein. Unfortunately, Signing Vanderbilt and Hartenstein would probably require us to trade someone for more financial flexibility. That's where Jake Layman comes in again. He's the key to opening up more room under the luxury tax to sign Hartenstein and also re-sign Vanderbilt. We could probably also sign J-Mac as well.
You would sign Jake Layman this offseason for nearly 4 million?
Depends on who i have on my team, what my team payroll is, who the alternatives are on the free-agent market and what my team's needs are. I like that his contract is modest and expiring. I like that he's still relatively young. He can play. Of course, he's not a highly valuable asset as a player. But he's not a negative. He has skills, can score and by all accounts he's a good teammate. His expiring contract also adds some incremental positive value. Give me a second round pick as part of the deal and I'll definitely consider taking him in exchange for a end-of-bench player on a non-guaranteed or smaller salary contract.
So if you are a theoretical team looking to acquire Layman you are looking to receive a 2nd round pick in the trade?
Monster - You really need to let go on this one! My point was that Layman has SOME value at or north of zero, but not much. My main point is that Layman plus a 2nd-round pick could probably fetch some additional salary space. I said I would like to trade Layman for Brown, but I also noted that Dallas wouldn't do that deal. I think we can move on. :)
monsterpile wrote:Let's throw out another option for a young player to possibly acquire.
What would you give up for Moses Brown? He was very productive last year and maybe he isn't legit but watching some highlights he is literally behind and reaching over Embiid and getting rebounds and tips. He is 7'1.25" tall without shoes and has a 7'4.75" wingspan. That's a big dude. He is signed for basically the vet min for the next 3 years so that could be an cheap contract if he is a nice player. I haven't seen him play enough to say I would give up a lottery protected first to get him but honestly I'm tempted to do so partly because of that value contract.
I'm a Moses Brown believer. He was on a shortlist of young defensive-minded bigs that I thought would be good trade targets. He's long, athletic, mobile, and as you said, he's locked into a very team-friendly deal.
I'll answer your question by asking another question. If you were the decision-maker for another franchise, what would you be willing to trade for Naz Reid? Their contracts make it that much more difficult, although not impossible, and they're clearly productive in some capacity. I'd have to think a first-round pick is the asking price for Reid unless included in a bigger deal. My assessment would be that Brown is similarly valued. I wonder if Jaylen Nowell would interest Dallas considering they're thinner in the backcourt than they are in the frontcourt.
That's a good question Cam. I agree I don't think I trade Naz for anything less than a 1st rounder either. Here is another question...would you trade Naz for Moses Brown? I'm not sure why Dallas would consider that but would you do it? I would want to be more familiar with Brown's game before I pulled the trigger as I really like Naz.
Dallas would absolutely trade Moses Brown for Naz Reid - in a heartbeat. The only question is whether the Wolves should make the offer. My answer is no. I'm intrigued by Moses Brown and have been high on him for a while, but Naz has shown a lot more game so far in his career and still has a lot of upside left. Would Dallas swap Brown for Jake Layman? I'd like to think so, but I doubt it. Jake and a future 2nd-round pick? Maybe that would be enough for Dallas. If so, I'd pull the trigger on that if I were Rosas. Cam suggested that Dallas might be interested in Nowell. I can see that. Would the Mavs swap Brown for Jaylen? I think so. Should Rosas make that deal if it's available? I'm not sure. I'm still high on Nowell. I'd rather sign Hartenstein as a free agent than give up Nowell to get Moses Brown.
Jake Layman would be a negative asset I'm not sure why you are trying to add him into the Brown trade.
If we could do a Nowell for Brown deal I would consider it. Why? For one thing Brown is locked in for an additional cheap year which is valuable. Q is also making me question Nowell a bit and his summer league performance in the 3 games I have seen was just good and I was hoping for more. At this point I would feel better about dealing away Nowell than Naz like you said.
Monster - Jake is not a negative asset. He's an athletic, fairly long and skilled player with a nice-looking shooting stroke that makes him look like a guy who can be a consistently good 3-point guy. He's also on a relatively cheap, expiring contract. His contract alone gives him value. My hypothetical included the Wolves attaching a 2nd-round pick to the outgoing Layman as part of the deal. That's not a negative haul for Dallas. But as I said, I still don't think Dallas would do it.
I agree with you on preferring to deal Nowell rather than Naz for Brown. But as I said, I wouldn't deal either one if I could sign Hartenstein. Unfortunately, Signing Vanderbilt and Hartenstein would probably require us to trade someone for more financial flexibility. That's where Jake Layman comes in again. He's the key to opening up more room under the luxury tax to sign Hartenstein and also re-sign Vanderbilt. We could probably also sign J-Mac as well.
You would sign Jake Layman this offseason for nearly 4 million?
Depends on who i have on my team, what my team payroll is, who the alternatives are on the free-agent market and what my team's needs are. I like that his contract is modest and expiring. I like that he's still relatively young. He can play. Of course, he's not a highly valuable asset as a player. But he's not a negative. He has skills, can score and by all accounts he's a good teammate. His expiring contract also adds some incremental positive value. Give me a second round pick as part of the deal and I'll definitely consider taking him in exchange for a end-of-bench player on a non-guaranteed or smaller salary contract.
So if you are a theoretical team looking to acquire Layman you are looking to receive a 2nd round pick in the trade?
Monster - You really need to let go on this one! My point was that Layman has SOME value at or north of zero, but not much. My main point is that Layman plus a 2nd-round pick could probably fetch some additional salary space. I said I would like to trade Layman for Brown, but I also noted that Dallas wouldn't do that deal. I think we can move on. :)
Sorry I'm still wildly confused how in your mind Layman isn't a negative asset when I have to give up a draft pick to move him. That's basically the definition of a negative trade asset.
Sorry you're so confused, Monster. I think that $3.9M of additional salary space right now might be worth more than Layman, which is why I would contemplate including a 2nd-round pick. But that doesn't mean he has negative value. In any trade, it's the value of outgoing assets relative to the value of incoming assets. You wouldn't necessarily have to include a 2nd-round pick to trade Layman. But I think at this point, with most teams over the cap with full rosters, a 2nd-round pick would probably have to be included with Layman if you want to get his $3.9M salary slot cleared via a non-guaranteed contract player. Otherwise, I'm sure there are teams that would be willing to trade one of their non-rotation guys for Layman straight up. We might even be able to get a future 2nd round pick if we were willing to take a non-rotation player with more than one guaranteed year left on his contract. The latter would reflect the value of the expiring nature of Layman's contract.
