OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We've come a long way as a society. An incredibly long way. But racial issues remain a common problem in our country... that continues to divide us to this day.

Hopefully, someday we don't think about race and color.

A few months ago my 10-year-old adopted daughter asked me if she was American. Her sister (my step daughter) who is half Caucasian and half Korean said no you are Korean. I corrected her and said no she is American. She might have been born in Korea and lived their until she was 3, but she wouldn't be considered Korean in Korea. It is a moment I go back to and ponder often.

I think it would be a shame if we didn't pay any attention to race or culture. It would be great if we as a society actually had respect for each other regardless of those things that make us unique. We should also be able to tell any part of our story when we feel fit not have to answer a question like "Where are you really from?"

Culture, yes. Race....would love us to get beyond pure physical traits. Two people who are black may come from COMPLETELY different backgrounds and cultures. Same with two people who are light-skinned and everything in between. Same thing with two females, two short people, two fat people, etc. It is virtually meaningless in terms of capabilities, personality, beliefs, etc.

[TAFKASP]

Same with two people who are light-skinned and everything in between. Same thing with two females, two short people, two fat people, etc. It is virtually meaningless in terms of capabilities, personality, beliefs, etc.

Not really, teh short fat guy can't dunk, gravity is a bitch like that! ;)

[thedoper]

Same with two people who are light-skinned and everything in between. Same thing with two females, two short people, two fat people, etc. It is virtually meaningless in terms of capabilities, personality, beliefs, etc.

Not really, teh short fat guy can't dunk, gravity is a bitch like that! ;)

I didn't write that. Don't know why I'm quoted there.

[bleedspeed]

I think it would be a shame if we didn't pay any attention to race or culture. It would be great if we as a society actually had respect for each other regardless of those things that make us unique. We should also be able to tell any part of our story when we feel fit not have to answer a question like "Where are you really from?"

The thing is she asked if she was American and that is not a race and it is a melting pot of cultures. I still remember the day she came home from school and said someone called her a VSCO girl on the bus.

I had to look it up and found this definition.
VSCO girl is a term, generally used as an insult, for a young, usually white woman who posts trendy pictures of herself edited on the app VSCO.

Stereotypes of the VSCO girl include wearing scrunchies and Birkenstock sandals, drinking out of Hydro Flask reusable water canisters, saying sksksk and I oop, and generally seeking attention online.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/vsco-girl/

[TAFKASP]

Same with two people who are light-skinned and everything in between. Same thing with two females, two short people, two fat people, etc. It is virtually meaningless in terms of capabilities, personality, beliefs, etc.

Not really, teh short fat guy can't dunk, gravity is a bitch like that! ;)

I didn't write that. Don't know why I'm quoted there.

I was trying to shorten the quote on my phone and my fat thumbs fucked it up, sorry!

[TheGrey08]

Throw out the color and race out and look at the real problems.

How many people in jail grew up without a father?
How many were raised by grandparents?
How many have addictions?
How many had abusive parents?
Did they finish high school?

I bet you will see some trends in that.

How many of those fathers were in jail for some weak non violent crime like smoking or selling some cannabis?

Gotta remember this is multi generational and it absolutely snowballs. We can't just look at today's statistics when talking about this stuff, especially in those above terms.

Quite frankly this isn't much different than people denying that humans have ANY effect on climate change. All the evidence and statistics we have clearly point to minorities being targeted for crimes and jailed FAR more than white peeps.

Does it really matter what the exact % of blame falls on a community vs the justice/police systems? If people are objective they will find some amount of blame on multiple sources, but the most important thing is it's extremely hard for a community to rise and do well when systems have a boot on the fucking backs. Just look at black wealth. What % of that wealth do you think is from the entertainment industries vs other?

I'm always seeing people (not saying people on here, but people that I observe in general) trying to deflect from the justice/police system/systemic racism, either denying racism exists at all or trying to put the blame on the community by saying oh but why don't they do this or that or why do they kill themselves so much (whites kill the most whites, shocker I know), etc. It's just ignorance plain and simple. Systemic racism is a thing and quite frankly it doesn't fucking matter to what degree it exists. It's a problem regardless and it needs fixing so the best thing we can do is focus on fixing the parts of our society that are broken whether they're a little broken or a lot broken.

[TheGrey08]

I can pretty much tell down to the person on here where your parents stood on this issue because I heard the same bullshit excuses and racist propaganda when I grew up and many of you are parroting that garbage as if it were written in some book that you hold dear - I dont know, maybe Mein Kampf?

A little judgemental? It sounds like you have turned into the person you want to despise.

I think the point of coming so hard in these statements is to counter comments that directly take focus off or minimalize systemic racism and point at the community (which is just as judgemental). One community can't change or reform societal systems on their own. Everyone has to acknowledge flaws so they can be fixed.

[TheGrey08]

This is an actual quote, there is audio of this - this is the advisor to President Nixon: "You want to know what this was really all about?" Ehrlichman asked, referring to the war on drugs. "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news." "Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did," he concluded, according to Baum.

There is literally no proof that the quote is legit and plenty of reason to believe it's made up. Funny the person who makes the claim didn't include in the book he was interviewing for and only shared more than a decade after the man died.

Made up for what gain exactly? Holding onto a quite depicting Nixon as a racist until years after his death and his aids death so he could sell a paper?
Would it be the first time someone came out years after a person's death and say how shitty of a person they were or to illuminate some shitty deed of theirs?

I mean c'mon dude.. it's not a stretch to see racism was involved in the war on drugs to some degree and there's actual tape of Nixon saying racist crap. Whether it was all about race or just partially about race, does it really matter? It was bad regardless.

[Monster]

We've come a long way as a society. An incredibly long way. But racial issues remain a common problem in our country... that continues to divide us to this day.

Hopefully, someday we don't think about race and color.

A few months ago my 10-year-old adopted daughter asked me if she was American. Her sister (my step daughter) who is half Caucasian and half Korean said no you are Korean. I corrected her and said no she is American. She might have been born in Korea and lived their until she was 3, but she wouldn't be considered Korean in Korea. It is a moment I go back to and ponder often.

I think it would be a shame if we didn't pay any attention to race or culture. It would be great if we as a society actually had respect for each other regardless of those things that make us unique. We should also be able to tell any part of our story when we feel fit not have to answer a question like "Where are you really from?"

Culture, yes. Race....would love us to get beyond pure physical traits. Two people who are black may come from COMPLETELY different backgrounds and cultures. Same with two people who are light-skinned and everything in between. Same thing with two females, two short people, two fat people, etc. It is virtually meaningless in terms of capabilities, personality, beliefs, etc.

Agreed. I also think there In some cases there is a connection between race and culture which IMO can have value to have some sort of awareness of. Again this is difficult to process because our brains have a basic idea of categorizing things making a rule and then following it. We are more likely to make a stereotype based on what might be worthwhile 22.3% of the time or whatever. A novel example is some people are proud to be from their home town or home state. Some people don't really care all that much or quite frankly can't wait to leave! And back to your point sometimes we really can't tell who may be part of a culture heritage or not. I guess maybe what I am trying to get at is I find value in learning about various cultures and I don't think that's done well now and I wonder if "not seeing color" makes it even easier to ignore. Not on an individual basis as much as a societal one.

Technically saying you are "American" means you are from 2 continents. Way to narrow it down! ;) Just to be clear Bleed I absolutely agree that both of your step daughters are American (from the USA). :)

Below is a light hearted song about being an "American" from a Canadian musical comedy act.

https://youtu.be/29g57XTYgLE

[TAFKASP]

This is an actual quote, there is audio of this - this is the advisor to President Nixon: "You want to know what this was really all about?" Ehrlichman asked, referring to the war on drugs. "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news." "Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did," he concluded, according to Baum.

There is literally no proof that the quote is legit and plenty of reason to believe it's made up. Funny the person who makes the claim didn't include in the book he was interviewing for and only shared more than a decade after the man died.

Made up for what gain exactly? Holding onto a quite depicting Nixon as a racist until years after his death and his aids death so he could sell a paper?
Would it be the first time someone came out years after a person's death and say how shitty of a person they were or to illuminate some shitty deed of theirs?

I mean c'mon dude.. it's not a stretch to see racism was involved in the war on drugs to some degree and there's actual tape of Nixon saying racist crap. Whether it was all about race or just partially about race, does it really matter? It was bad regardless.

No, not held until after Nixon died, held up until after the person being quoted died. It's convenient that the man never said it to anybody else and is no longer around to rebut or confirm it. As for Nixon, yes he was racist and we have actual evidence, but we don't for that quote.

As for why would someone claim it was said, political gain. It's much like the unproven claim that LBJ said he'd "Have all those ******* voting Democrat for the next 100 years", unproven but used because most people just accept these things as fact when they're not. It's like women who come out of the woodwork after decades to claim someone raped them and can offer zero evidence, it's dirty politics.

I'm not saying he didn't, but if he did why sit on it for more than a decade, until long after the man quoted died? The interview in which it's claimed he said it was for a book on the topic and yet it wasn't worthy of inclusion? There are plenty of reasons to think it's a lie, and given Nixon was clearly racist there are reasons to think even if it wasn't said, it may well have been intended. Either way stating it as a fact is inaccurate.