Free Agent Target List

Any And All Things T-Wolves Related
User avatar
Monster
Posts: 24045
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by Monster »

Camden wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:I think DLO did provide positive value during the regular season, but he's played in two playoff series now and he was terrible in both. The Wolves simply can't afford to be paying a max salary to a guy who disappears at playoff time and who likely will be less needed as Ant takes on more ballhandling responsibilities. Unless DLO can embrace a sixth man role and accept a salary no more than $15 million, he just doesn't have a future here.


Meh. We'll have to agree to disagree per usual. D'Angelo Russell's actual impact, or lack thereof, against Memphis has been vastly overstated on multiple mediums, but that's a conversation for another time. A look under the hood indicates that while he was less productive than he was during the regular season he was close to being a neutral impact player for the series. That's more than most of the Wolves roster can say, including Anthony Edwards and others despite their moments of brilliance.

Also, nobody is advocating for Russell to be extended or re-signed as a max salary player. I have yet to see someone propose that, but what I have seen is those that would let Russell play out the final year of his current deal, which Minnesota should be more than okay with doing. There is little to no risk involved in running this team back with some added pieces.

And as I've also said, we have no real idea what his next contract is going to look like until those talks take place. Previous deals set by the market illustrate that he's looking at anywhere from $20-25-million annually, which would be adequate value for a player of his caliber. Not max money, but also not $15-million per year. Starter-level players who are not on their rookie deals generally make more than that.


KG its puzzling that you are willing to pay Tyus only a couple million less than Russell when we have a similar player on the roster in McLaughlin. Meanwhile you really suggested that we could just roll with Satoranky as a starting PG? I think he probably has more game left than what he showed at times last year but that's basically like saying let's just do what we have done with the PF position the last couple years it will be fine. No it wasn't fine although thankfully Vanderbilt was good enough for the Wolves to win games this year and take a leap but everyone things we need to do better in the front court. That can be addressed with a good player in FA. Why exactly are we trying to dump Russell for fringe starters at PG?

Edwards goes through stretches he doesn't do a lot on offense. That's ok I'm not knocking him for that as a 20 year old 2nd year guy especially since he actually plays some defense. He isn't ready to have the ball nearly every possession and to be honest even at his peak I'm not sure that's the best thing for him especially since it looks like his shooting is for real. I think this season it would still be good for him and a guy like McDaniels to have another shot maker and creator next to him not just a dude that kinda does some stuff above replacement level. I think people really underrate Russell's playmaking passing skills on the whole this year. This season he increased his assists, lowered his turnovers (one of the weaknesses of his game I typically pointed out before this year) and all while having the lowest usage since his rookie year. Did he create enough in the playoffs? No but are we sitting here thinking that a guy like Tyus or Satoranksy or I guess Beverly will? I feel pretty confident that is unlikely. So basically the answer for this team is give the ball to Edwards and Towns and let everyone else just shoot 3's? That's not going to help the double teaming of Towns. They might start double teaming Edwards too because nobody is going to worry about anyone else beating them consistently off the dribble.
User avatar
Duke13
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by Duke13 »

The most logical and likely outcome with Dlo at this time is letting him play out the final year of his deal. I'm fine with that, I don't see him having much trade value.
User avatar
Q-is-here
Posts: 7583
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by Q-is-here »

Camden wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:I think DLO did provide positive value during the regular season, but he's played in two playoff series now and he was terrible in both. The Wolves simply can't afford to be paying a max salary to a guy who disappears at playoff time and who likely will be less needed as Ant takes on more ballhandling responsibilities. Unless DLO can embrace a sixth man role and accept a salary no more than $15 million, he just doesn't have a future here.


Meh. We'll have to agree to disagree per usual. D'Angelo Russell's actual impact, or lack thereof, against Memphis has been vastly overstated on multiple mediums, but that's a conversation for another time. A look under the hood indicates that while he was less productive than he was during the regular season he was close to being a neutral impact player for the series.. That's more than most of the Wolves roster can say, including Anthony Edwards and others despite their moments of brilliance.

Also, nobody is advocating for Russell to be extended or re-signed as a max salary player. I have yet to see someone propose that, but what I have seen is those that would let Russell play out the final year of his current deal, which Minnesota should be more than okay with doing. There is little to no risk involved in running this team back with some added pieces.

And as I've also said, we have no real idea what his next contract is going to look like until those talks take place. Previous deals set by the market illustrate that he's looking at anywhere from $20-25-million annually, which would be adequate value for a player of his caliber. Not max money, but also not $15-million per year. Starter-level players who are not on their rookie deals generally make more than that.


I'm not sure what hood you've looked under, but whatever it is, you've been hoodwinked! He was not close to neutral during the Memphis series. His inability to make shots and his untimely turnovers helped cost us games. Now if Jordan McLaughlin and Pat Beverley had all his minutes would they have ultimately been better? Don't know. But no one can possibly argue that DLO didn't have a poor series.
User avatar
Camden [enjin:6601484]
Posts: 18065
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Q-was-here wrote:I'm not sure what hood you've looked under, but whatever it is, you've been hoodwinked! He was not close to neutral during the Memphis series. His inability to make shots and his untimely turnovers helped cost us games. Now if Jordan McLaughlin and Pat Beverley had all his minutes would they have ultimately been better? Don't know. But no one can possibly argue that DLO didn't have a poor series.


I never said that D'Angelo Russell didn't have a poor series, but rather his play is being overly criticized, especially in regards to how it impacted the team.

He shot the ball terribly, but he did some good things too. I thought he actually played the best defense on Desmond Bane of anyone on the roster by being smart enough to play his shot and not respect the drive. He posted a solid 2.4 assist/turnover ratio. His net rating for the series (-1.7) was second-HIGHEST on the team behind Jaden McDaniels. And while his shot was abysmal, he never took more than 12 shots in any game of the series besides Game 3 when he was basically the only player to show up to the arena. He limited the damage of his own inefficiency by being self-aware and taking a back seat. Not to mention, he had a positive plus-minus in four of the six games played, for those that tend to value that stat.

Did D-Lo do enough to help the Wolves win? No, he certainly did not. Did D-Lo somehow lose the series for Minnesota? Also, no he did not. Are fans overreacting to a tough stretch of games for him to finish the season? Unquestionably, yes.
User avatar
thedoper
Posts: 11008
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by thedoper »

Camden wrote:
Q-was-here wrote:I'm not sure what hood you've looked under, but whatever it is, you've been hoodwinked! He was not close to neutral during the Memphis series. His inability to make shots and his untimely turnovers helped cost us games. Now if Jordan McLaughlin and Pat Beverley had all his minutes would they have ultimately been better? Don't know. But no one can possibly argue that DLO didn't have a poor series.


I never said that D'Angelo Russell didn't have a poor series, but rather his play is being overly criticized, especially in regards to how it impacted the team.

He shot the ball terribly, but he did some good things too. I thought he actually played the best defense on Desmond Bane of anyone on the roster by being smart enough to play his shot and not respect the drive. He posted a solid 2.4 assist/turnover ratio. His net rating for the series (-1.7) was second-HIGHEST on the team behind Jaden McDaniels. And while his shot was abysmal, he never took more than 12 shots in any game of the series besides Game 3 when he was basically the only player to show up to the arena. He limited the damage of his own inefficiency by being self-aware and taking a back seat. Not to mention, he had a positive plus-minus in four of the six games played, for those that tend to value that stat.

Did D-Lo do enough to help the Wolves win? No, he certainly did not. Did D-Lo somehow lose the series for Minnesota? Also, no he did not. Are fans overreacting to a tough stretch of games for him to finish the season? Unquestionably, yes.


I do think there were some overreactions in the moment to DLo's performance, but now that the dust has settles his performance seems to have put everyone well in their camps that were established going into the playoffs. I fall on the side of that DLo is not a perfect player, but I don't see us improving his position via trade. Most people think he is overrpaid (not an overreaction). Most people seem to be fine with re-signing him for 15-25 mil per (also pretty reasonable opinions). I do see the challenges coming if DLo is not willing to accept a pay cut.

On his playoff play I do think there were many missed opportunities with his play this playoff series, but I also believe that no singular player loses a game for their team. Too many moving parts. Better play from DLo likely could have resulted in a win or two though in that series. Our 4th quarter offense was too stagnant not to assign some impact to the point guard.
User avatar
Carlos Danger
Posts: 2402
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by Carlos Danger »

Camden wrote:
Q-was-here wrote:I'm not sure what hood you've looked under, but whatever it is, you've been hoodwinked! He was not close to neutral during the Memphis series. His inability to make shots and his untimely turnovers helped cost us games. Now if Jordan McLaughlin and Pat Beverley had all his minutes would they have ultimately been better? Don't know. But no one can possibly argue that DLO didn't have a poor series.


I never said that D'Angelo Russell didn't have a poor series, but rather his play is being overly criticized, especially in regards to how it impacted the team.

He shot the ball terribly, but he did some good things too. I thought he actually played the best defense on Desmond Bane of anyone on the roster by being smart enough to play his shot and not respect the drive. He posted a solid 2.4 assist/turnover ratio. His net rating for the series (-1.7) was second-HIGHEST on the team behind Jaden McDaniels. And while his shot was abysmal, he never took more than 12 shots in any game of the series besides Game 3 when he was basically the only player to show up to the arena. He limited the damage of his own inefficiency by being self-aware and taking a back seat. Not to mention, he had a positive plus-minus in four of the six games played, for those that tend to value that stat.

Did D-Lo do enough to help the Wolves win? No, he certainly did not. Did D-Lo somehow lose the series for Minnesota? Also, no he did not. Are fans overreacting to a tough stretch of games for him to finish the season? Unquestionably, yes.


DLO was hands down our worst player during the playoffs based on the stats I trust most. Factor out Nowell, Okogie and Monroe (those guys played a total of 21 minutes - combined). DLO had the worst:

PER
TS%,
WS/48
VORP (tied)

He got pulled in the 4th quarter for JMac because he was just plain bad. I think it's a pretty tough sell to try and spin anything positive from what he did in that series. Fans have a right to be pissed.
User avatar
Q-is-here
Posts: 7583
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:00 am

Re: Free Agent Target List

Post by Q-is-here »

Yeah, I'll agree that DLO wasn't the singular cause for our series loss, but had he simply played like he did in the regular season, I can almost guarantee we would have won. But despite his poor performance, we still were in a good position to win the series.

KAT and Ant contributed to the 4th quarter lost leads with ill-advised shots and clanks. And then there is poor Jaden McDaniels. I'll never forget the three bad plays in a row by Jaden that turbo-charged one of the Grizzlies' epic comebacks - two fumbled passes that would have led to easy dunks and a dumb pass on an outlet pass that was easily picked off. Otherwise, he had a great series!
Post Reply