DLO and Beasley

[kekgeek]

I do think the Wolves are close though too being a good team. The 4th Q killed the Wolves.

This is all 4th Q in the series
Towns: 47% on 26 FGA
ANT: 28% on 21 FGA
DLO: 20% on 15 FGA
PAT Bev: 18% on 13 FGA
Beasley: 25% on 12 FGA
McDaniels: 66% on 9 FGA
Prince: 43% on 7 FGA
McLaughlin: 71% on 7 FGA
Naz: 25% on 4 FGA
Vando: 100% on 2 FGA

Looking at the numbers out starting guards and our 6th man really shit the bed down the stretch. Obviously Towns has his faults but they got him the ball and he preformed in the 4th Q.

[Monster]

I think the easiest positions to find are PG and PF. If that's true, the Wolves are in pretty good shape. They have an all NBA big, who is a mental midget but still a very good player. They have the 2-guard position solved for 10 years. I think Jaden will develop into a dynamic starter at the 3. A front office worth their salt should be able to find the PG & PF pieces through a combination of the draft and free agency. We're probably going to need that cap space from DLO's contract though.

Cool I think you are right about the PG or a guard that can play next to Edwards but there are a lot of teams that have struggled to get a PF the last couple years. Part of what makes it so challenging is the league has gone small but yet if you want a good PF they still need to do some PF type things. What is Bobby Portis going to get paid this offseason?

Monster, I think you would agree we didn't even try to find a power forward before this year. Not sure what Rosas was thinking there. Portis signed a two year deal before this season if I remember right. But yes, he would be perfect.

This offseason I'm guessing based on what both Finch and Gupta said in exit interviews they are going to look at personnel to address the defensive rebounding issue. I mean it's not rocket science but it did seem like a blind spot for Rosas.

Portis signed a 2 year deal with a player option for less than 5 million so...I'll be surprised if he doesn't opt out to at least get more money from the Bucks. He has earned that. I've always liked Portis to some extent but I will admit that uncertainty about how good he would be when there were a few PF signings including us resigning Juancho looks bad now even though there was some data to support that skepticism. I will say I think it's fair to consider whether Portis would have been as successful here as he did in Milwaukee. I think even though everyone here would like to have a player of his caliber I think everyone is also happy that he helped the Bucks win a championship. He is a good story.

It would be nice to find a guy like him this offseason. A guy that's talented and has produced some but hasn't quite figured it out. Looking through the FAs available not many stand out maybe Hartenstein? It's hard to not want someone more proven even if they are now starting on the downside of their career.

I'll say this Nathan Knight in theory has some of the aspects this team needs. He plays with a lot of energy is bouncy AND plays somewhat physical and has the body to back that up. I'm not saying he is the answer but I would not be surprised to see them keep him as a cheap depth 2-way contract similar to what they did with McLaughlin. Knight hasn't proven as much as McLaughlin did at the same point IMO but he has played minutes when asked on back to back playoff teams. He wasn't doing it for bad teams that ended up tanking etc.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm popping in here out of respect to Lip, Q, and a handful of others even though it's a near certainty that I'll be chastised by others for this take.

The case for keeping D'Angelo Russell is a simple one. He was an integral piece of perhaps the best and most exciting Timberwolves team in nearly 20-years this past season. He produced the third-highest net rating (4.7) on the team behind Karl-Anthony Towns (5.3) and Jarred Vanderbilt (5.0). The majority of Minnesota's most-productive lineup combinations include Russell, perhaps most-notably the starting five with a net rating of 12.8 in 439 minutes. He produced the 11th-highest APG and AST% in the league. Additionally, only seven other players matched or exceeded 18.0 points per game and 7.0 assists per game. His 2.8 assist/turnover ratio also exceeded that of other high usage guards such as LaMelo Ball, Trae Young, Jrue Holiday, Fred VanVleet, James Harden, and C.J. McCollum. I believe all of this shows the versatility he brings in being able to take on a scoring role while operating as a facilitator. If it was easy to achieve both, there would be more players with those numbers. However, he's far from a perfect player, as we all know. His overall efficiency left a lot to be desired given the inconsistencies from month to month shooting the basketball. He was a flamethrower from January through February (.612 TS% in those 21 games), but it was overall an up and down season in that regard. In the 39 wins Russell played in this season he produced a .576 TS%, whereas he struggled to the tune of a .496 TS% in the 26 losses he played in. Ideally, you wouldn't like there to be that large of a gap.

I'd also argue that this might be an opportune time to extend Russell, if possible. You cannot assume he'll shoot as poorly from the perimeter (34.0% in 65 games) next year. He's shown to be much more dangerous from the perimeter in recent seasons (37.2% combined in 168 games over last three seasons prior to 2021-22). This was also the first season of his career in which he was asked to be the main facilitator instead of a top scoring option. Naturally, there was going to be some growing pains as he had to pick his spots more carefully, which may or may not have affected his own rhythm as a scorer. Because of that, there's optimism that he'll be more comfortable in that role next season and it could show statistically. Lastly, Minnesota should be looking to add a quality big with size to the mix. Ideally, this big would be capable of setting high ball screens and rolling to the hoop. The pick-and-roll is a massive part of Russell's game and it has yet to be fully utilized in Minnesota. The front office, as well as Chris Finch, has instead forced Russell to create in isolation, which only makes his athletic limitations more glaring. He needs to be able to weave and probe after coming off of a ball screen as it's the screen that gives him the separation that he cannot always create by himself. I would NOT extend Russell if that meant signing him to a max contract, but I continue to believe that isn't a realistic asking price from his camp. Anything in the ballpark of four-years, $100-million (or less) would be solid value for Russell, especially in comparison to his peers. If he's unwilling to settle for that price, then you allow him to bet on himself and play out the final year of his deal while reevaluating his future prior to the trade deadline.

To conclude, there's value in continuity and simply running this team back next year is a pretty good option for Minnesota's decision-makers -- whoever that may be. Personally, I would not look to disrupt this nucleus, which I still believe to be made up of Towns, Russell, and Anthony Edwards. The Wolves were 39-24 (.619) in the regular season this year when both Towns and Russell suited up. They're 52-36 (.591) together since the trade that brought Russell to Minnesota. That's a pretty good place to start, in my opinion, and that's without mentioning the certain ascent of Edwards. The focus should be on continuing to build this group, not dismantling it after their first successful season together.

[Monster]

I'm popping in here out of respect to Lip, Q, and a handful of others even though it's a near certainty that I'll be chastised by others for this take.

The case for keeping D'Angelo Russell is a simple one. He was an integral piece of perhaps the best and most exciting Timberwolves team in nearly 20-years this past season. He produced the third-highest net rating (4.7) on the team behind Karl-Anthony Towns (5.3) and Jarred Vanderbilt (5.0). The majority of Minnesota's most-productive lineup combinations include Russell, perhaps most-notably the starting five with a net rating of 12.8 in 439 minutes. He produced the 11th-highest APG and AST% in the league. Additionally, only seven other players matched or exceeded 18.0 points per game and 7.0 assists per game. His 2.8 assist/turnover ratio also exceeded that of other high usage guards such as LaMelo Ball, Trae Young, Jrue Holiday, Fred VanVleet, James Harden, and C.J. McCollum. I believe all of this shows the versatility he brings in being able to take on a scoring role while operating as a facilitator. If it was easy to achieve both, there would be more players with those numbers. However, he's far from a perfect player, as we all know. His overall efficiency left a lot to be desired given the inconsistencies from month to month shooting the basketball. He was a flamethrower from January through February (.612 TS% in those 21 games), but it was overall an up and down season in that regard. In the 39 wins Russell played in this season he produced a .576 TS%, whereas he struggled to the tune of a .496 TS% in the 26 losses he played in. Ideally, you wouldn't like there to be that large of a gap.

I'd also argue that this might be an opportune time to extend Russell, if possible. You cannot assume he'll shoot as poorly from the perimeter (34.0% in 65 games) next year. He's shown to be much more dangerous from the perimeter in recent seasons (37.2% combined in 168 games over last three seasons prior to 2021-22). This was also the first season of his career in which he was asked to be the main facilitator instead of a top scoring option. Naturally, there was going to be some growing pains as he had to pick his spots more carefully, which may or may not have affected his own rhythm as a scorer. Because of that, there's optimism that he'll be more comfortable in that role next season and it could show statistically. Lastly, Minnesota should be looking to add a quality big with size to the mix. Ideally, this big would be capable of setting high ball screens and rolling to the hoop. The pick-and-roll is a massive part of Russell's game and it has yet to be fully utilized in Minnesota. The front office, as well as Chris Finch, has instead forced Russell to create in isolation, which only makes his athletic limitations more glaring. He needs to be able to weave and probe after coming off of a ball screen as it's the screen that gives him the separation that he cannot always create by himself. I would NOT extend Russell if that meant signing him to a max contract, but I continue to believe that isn't a realistic asking price from his camp. Anything in the ballpark of four-years, $100-million (or less) would be solid value for Russell, especially in comparison to his peers. If he's unwilling to settle for that price, then you allow him to bet on himself and play out the final year of his deal while reevaluating his future prior to the trade deadline.

To conclude, there's value in continuity and simply running this team back next year is a pretty good option for Minnesota's decision-makers -- whoever that may be. Personally, I would not look to disrupt this nucleus, which I still believe to be made up of Towns, Russell, and Anthony Edwards. The Wolves were 39-24 (.619) in the regular season this year when both Towns and Russell suited up. They're 52-36 (.591) together since the trade that brought Russell to Minnesota. That's a pretty good place to start, in my opinion, and that's without mentioning the certain ascent of Edwards. The focus should be on continuing to build this group, not dismantling it after their first successful season together.

Lots of good stuff here Cam I'm gonna add a couple things to what you said.

First of all somewhat like Towns many folks said Russell wasn't a guy that was a winner and couldn't be part of a team that was worthwhile defensively. Well...both were key players this season in a winning team that also defended. So even with Russell's offensive inconsistencies it seems to me he was valuable to winning as some of the evidence Cam and geek referenced in have their posts suggest.

Finch in his exit interview mentioned he should have run more sets for Russell to get him going off the ball in the Grizzlies series. He mentioned during that interview about how with a more free flowing offense that can lead to some of the situations we saw in the playoffs and also in the regular season. He also mentioned he needed to do something's to help Towns too when teams do the double team but he also didn't seem too concerned about it. I thought it was great that he took some responsibility himself that will likely be appreciated by players and fans. The other thing that was mentioned was the chemistry offensively with Russell and Towns after seeing some nice growth with Edwards and Towns. Finch was pretty clear that he didn't think it was very good yet and he hopes it can improve. He said part of that is injury and part is because they tend to play Russell with bench players so he doesn't play a lot with Towns.

Like Cam said I think adding to this group (and I mean the team overall not just the top players whoever you might put in that category) is what I would do. The Wolves have growth they can do from within, draft picks, a couple tradable players and the mid-level and bi-annual exception they can use to add FAs and some real room to operate without concern about the luxury tax. Also they just completed a season where they were actually good so they might be able to attract someone seeing them as a team legitimately on the rise. That's a big deal.

[thedoper]

The playoff problems ended up being this team's offense and not their D. Losing both DLo and Beasley could put a lot of scoring pressure on guys that may not be that good at it. Generally I'm better with staying the course and trying to upgrade the 4. I don't know if we have the tools to do that though with just exemptions and the like. Maybe there is a team that really likes Naz out there ;)? If Beasley Naz and a pick could get us a legit 4 and allow us to resign Prince I'd be all over it. I just dont see that clearly now.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The playoff problems ended up being this team's offense and not their D. Losing both DLo and Beasley could put a lot of scoring pressure on guys that may not be that good at it. Generally I'm better with staying the course and trying to upgrade the 4. I don't know if we have the tools to do that though with just exemptions and the like. Maybe there is a team that really likes Naz out there ;)? If Beasley Naz and a pick could get us a legit 4 and allow us to resign Prince I'd be all over it. I just dont see that clearly now.

Good stuff, doper. I definitely think Naz Reid could be on the move this summer. I would nitpick a bit and argue that Minnesota's rebounding, or lack thereof, is what eventually did them in... just as we expected all year.

The playoffs are difficult enough and the Wolves didn't make it any easier on themselves by giving the Grizzlies extra possession after possession. You have to rebound the basketball to end the offensive possession and Minnesota failed terribly there. Brandon Clarke should never be that big of a difference-maker in the post-season and the Wolves frontcourt made him look All-World. I think solving this issue should be the top priority regardless of any other moves they make. They have to get bigger and better on the glass. That should mean utilizing the draft and/or free agency to make additions to the frontcourt and playing their guys at their true positions-- specifically, Jaden McDaniels should never play the four ever again.

[Monster]

The playoff problems ended up being this team's offense and not their D. Losing both DLo and Beasley could put a lot of scoring pressure on guys that may not be that good at it. Generally I'm better with staying the course and trying to upgrade the 4. I don't know if we have the tools to do that though with just exemptions and the like. Maybe there is a team that really likes Naz out there ;)? If Beasley Naz and a pick could get us a legit 4 and allow us to resign Prince I'd be all over it. I just dont see that clearly now.

Good stuff, doper. I definitely think Naz Reid could be on the move this summer. I would nitpick a bit and argue that Minnesota's rebounding, or lack thereof, is what eventually did them in... just as we expected all year.

The playoffs are difficult enough and the Wolves didn't make it any easier on themselves by giving the Grizzlies extra possession after possession. You have to rebound the basketball to end the offensive possession and Minnesota failed terribly there. Brandon Clarke should never be that big of a difference-maker in the post-season and the Wolves frontcourt made him look All-World. I think solving this issue should be the top priority regardless of any other moves they make. They have to get bigger and better on the glass. That should mean utilizing the draft and/or free agency to make additions to the frontcourt and playing their guys at their true positions-- specifically, Jaden McDaniels should never play the four ever again.

I was thinking of the guys that are or can be expiring deals that do also have value as player (this thread discusses Russell and Beasley) Naz might be a guy that makes as much sense to deal as anyone (almost started a thread about this very subject) because he is cheap and because the Wolves will very likely add to the frontcourt that means he will probably play less (along with Vanderbilt) than he did this year. I'm not sure I see an obvious trading partner for him but at his salary it's much more easy to imagine him being a piece of a smaller trade or a bigger one. I might be the biggest fan of Naz on this board but if we can trade him for value this offseason that should absolutely be considered.

[Duke13]

Classic Cam, ending your post saying Jaden should never play the 4 ever again. He definitely looked overmatched during the series. I think you can make the argument with added strength and experience he might be able to handle some minutes at the 4 down the road. But no chance of that according to Cam.

Reasonable NBA observers could make an argument Dlo should never play Pg for the wolves again.

Cam how much worse would Dlo have had to play in the Memphis series for you to moderately change your stance on him?

[Lipoli390]

So glad you weighed in, Cam! As usual, your comments were substantive and analytical. I wanted this thread to provide some perspective and counter to the generally negative narrative regarding DLO. I think much of that negative narrative is well deserved based on how DLO performed in the playoffs. But it's important to temper the recency effect with a broader perspective that encompasses the entire season and you did that.

My frustration with DLO all season long has been two-fold: (1) his tendency to slow the ball and stifle ball movement; and (2) his really inconsistent shooting game to game. Regarding the former, I think you might be right that the main problem in in how he's used and that DLO would be much better if the Wolves played more pick-and-roll. On the second point, I don't know what to think. He was generally either great or terrible shooting the ball.

[Carlos Danger]

While I understand why people promote the Wolves record with Towns/Russell, I'm not 100% sold that is the best measuring stick. Personally, I trust the advanced stats to determine a players worth. Based on that, Towns is by far our best player. So logically, anyone paired with him for the purposes of "record with Towns and Player X" should be better than the record when they don't play. But that's more because of Towns than whatever player you plug into that equation. What's the Wolves record when Towns/Jmac suit up? I don't have a site to get this info, but I did a manual count and came up with 34-21 (.618). Almost exactly the same as Towns/DLO. Now - even though I'm not a fan of DLO, I would concede DLO gave more value to the team this season than JMac (but not in the playoffs). The advanced stats support that. I'm just pointing out the team record with those two argument isn't an iron clad show stopper in my mind.