lipoli390 wrote:Gobert had 15 points, 9 rebounds and 1 block against Hungry yesterday. I didn't see any NBA players on Hungary's roster. Meanwhile, Valanciunas had 34 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks against Germany. Maybe Gobert is just going through the motions. I'm imagining a 30 year old Shaq or Mutombo playing for France yesterday against Hungry. Shaq would have probably had 4 blocks, 15 rebounds and 35 points. Mutombo would have probably had 7 blocks and 15 rebounds.
I'm not sure this is a knock on Rudy Gobert, Lip. We know what Gobert is and isn't at this point in his career, and he isn't a big that you can simply drop the ball off into the post and let him operate. His offense is largely reliant on his team's guard play and his ability to attack the offensive glass for putbacks. It should also be noted that France's guard play has been underwhelming, to say the least -- a far cry from what he'll have around him with the Timberwolves.
Gobert is limited on that end, no doubt, but he's elite at what he actually can do in terms of scoring around the rim and setting screens (ranking number one last season in screen assists by a solid margin). We won't be relying on him to score, but rather his value will come in the flow of the offense and as an absolute anchor defensively. I'm not expecting many 30-point games from Gobert over the course of his tenure with Minnesota, but I am expecting a steady influx of wins and top-ranked defenses. That's just what he does.
A couple things to consider if just looking at box scores:
Gobert played 25 mins in the game against Hungry. Jonas played 35 mins in a double OT game.
France had 31 rebounds and Hungry had 22. So Gobert grabbed 9 of the 53 rebounds in 25 minutes.
Lip, I recognize you're providing a service to the board by trying to temper our expectations a little...we do tend to get a little overly exuberant here. But I find Rudy's stats last season in the NBA much more valuable in assessing who he currently is than his stats in the Euro tournament. He's being double teamed regularly over there (KAT and Ant can only hope that defenses throw double teams at him this season) and admittedly not handling it well. Let's face it...Gobert's offense is not designed to beat double teams! But the defenses he sees with the Wolves will allow him to be the efficient scorer he has always been. We're not going to see the real Gobert until the NBA season starts, and unless he plays fewer than 60 games (which has happened only once in his 8 years as a starter), I'm confident he'll be a key element of a 50+ win season.
If Gobert were a rookie or 2nd/3rd year player, I'd probably take more interest in his stat lines in Eurobasket. But the reality is it just isn't meaningful when he has a massive body of work already under his belt in the NBA.
Having said that, I do think Finch probably needs to get Gobert some early post touches or elbow touches to give him a vote of confidence and differentiate to a degree how he was used (and sometimes neglected) on offense in Utah. The point isn't because Gobert somehow has untapped hidden talent. The point is that it's a smart political move by the head coach to get his most veteran leader involved and engaged early. Obviously in crunch time we aren't running actions for Rudy.
(BTW, this is a page out of the Pat Riley and Phil Jackson book of coaching. Riley would always get the ball early to Kareem during the Lakers run, even after he was well past his prime. Jackson would do the same thing with Bill Cartwright on those Jordan-led teams, getting him a couple of early post touches).
FNG wrote:Lip, I recognize you're providing a service to the board by trying to temper our expectations a little...we do tend to get a little overly exuberant here. But I find Rudy's stats last season in the NBA much more valuable in assessing who he currently is than his stats in the Euro tournament. He's being double teamed regularly over there (KAT and Ant can only hope that defenses throw double teams at him this season) and admittedly not handling it well. Let's face it...Gobert's offense is not designed to beat double teams! But the defenses he sees with the Wolves will allow him to be the efficient scorer he has always been. We're not going to see the real Gobert until the NBA season starts, and unless he plays fewer than 60 games (which has happened only once in his 8 years as a starter), I'm confident he'll be a key element of a 50+ win season.
FNG - I'm doing my best to manage the home-town exuberance. :)
I watched the 3rd Q of that France Hungary game live. There is so many little things Gobert does that do not show up in the box score.
There were 2 possessions in particular where a France guard s was driving the lane and Gobert boxed out the Hungry center and allowed for 2 uncontested layups that would of been heavily contested if Gobert didn't swallow up the defender.
2 other possessions Gobert rolled hard and caught the pass and dunked it and the other time he made a great pass what should of been an easy layup but the France guard dished it to Yabaselle (the former Celtics F) for a mid range jumper.
There is so much Gobert does that will not be seen in the box score that impact winning (like I gave 4 examples what lead to 8 easy points but in this 4 possessions only 2 pts/0 ast/0 reb were credited to Gobert).
He is a bad back to the basket player but he is trying out moves what is good even though he is a below average player when it comes to back to the basket.
We also shouldn't be looking to much into international stats. Patty Mills would be a HOF, Okogie would be an elite NBA scorer (was nigeria go to option) and Shved would of been an all star (2nd option on a bronze medal team).
I know you didn't like the trade Lip but I think more than any other player in the NBA you can't look at box score when it comes to Gobert you need to watch him play to realize how freaking good he is
EuroBasket 2022 Round of 16 started with an amazing game in Berlin, as France managed to survive against Turkey and get the 87-86 overtime win. Rudy Gobert was the MVP of the game, with an impressive display under the basket: 20 points and 17 rebounds for the French center. - via EuroHoops.net
This is the Gobert I was hoping for in the Euro tournament.
Jorge Sierra: Per @Alberto de Roa's Global Rating, Rudy Gobert has been the 43rd-best player at the Eurobasket so far (between Estonia's Maik Kotsar and Greece's Kostas Sloukas). France is 3-1 in the tournament. 4 days ago - via Twitter hoopshype
