2022 Off-Season Around the League

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

A backcourt of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell would be pretty exciting, but very small. They'd still need to add another star-caliber player to the mix, in my opinion. I think the Knicks will end up emptying the cupboard for Mitchell and having an annual playoff team, but zero chance of actually contending.

[Lipoli390]

A backcourt of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell would be pretty exciting, but very small. They'd still need to add another star-caliber player to the mix, in my opinion. I think the Knicks will end up emptying the cupboard for Mitchell and having an annual playoff team, but zero chance of actually contending.

I predict the same, Cam. However, the development of Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett could make the Knicks a formidable playoff team. Moreover, I think they'll have significant cap space next summer. Having Donovan Mitchell, Brunson, Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett, combined with the allure of New York, could attract another star via free agency. Have to credit Leon Rose for being pretty savvy in the way he's set things up in New York - thinking several steps ahead.

Here's a deal I can see happening:

Knicks get: Donovan Mitchell and Jarred Vanderbilt

Utah gets the following: (1) Quickley; (2) Toppin; (3) Reddish; (4) Fournier (5) Knicks own 2023, 2025, 2027 & 2029 1st round picks unprotected; (6) Milwaukee's 2025 1st-round pick top 4 protected; (7) 2026 pick swap; and (8) Utah's 2024 2nd-round pick. Fournier is just for salary match purposes.

Do you think that would be enough to get it done and, if so, do you think the Knicks would do it?

[Monster]

A backcourt of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell would be pretty exciting, but very small. They'd still need to add another star-caliber player to the mix, in my opinion. I think the Knicks will end up emptying the cupboard for Mitchell and having an annual playoff team, but zero chance of actually contending.

Brunson and Donovan Mitchell in the backcourt together...David Kahn's vision would finally have come together.

Where is FNG to lay out the vast separation between Gobert's value and Mitchell's?

I think Cam is probably right the Knicks getting Mitchell might not get them to be a contender but I'll say this...getting Brunson and Mitchell in one offseason would be a pretty good haul. This could put the Knicks back on the map and bring some excitement to a franchise that could use some. It would also have a bunch of ball handlers on one team it would be interesting to see how they would manage that. I will likely not be very disappointed that we didn't acquire Mitchell instead of Gobert.

[Monster]

Nuggets sign KCP to a 2 year 30 million extension. That's a pretty solid deal for both sides and now the Nuggets have that spot locked up for 3 years.

Pacers waived some players to make the Ayton Max offer. Anyone interested in Duane Washington? I assume some team makes a waiver claim on him if he is any good.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

A backcourt of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell would be pretty exciting, but very small. They'd still need to add another star-caliber player to the mix, in my opinion. I think the Knicks will end up emptying the cupboard for Mitchell and having an annual playoff team, but zero chance of actually contending.

I predict the same, Cam. However, the development of Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett could make the Knicks a formidable playoff team. Moreover, I think they'll have significant cap space next summer. Having Donovan Mitchell, Brunson, Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett, combined with the allure of New York, could attract another star via free agency. Have to credit Leon Rose for being pretty savvy in the way he's set things up in New York - thinking several steps ahead.

Here's a deal I can see happening:

Knicks get: Donovan Mitchell and Jarred Vanderbilt

Utah gets the following: (1) Quickley; (2) Toppin; (3) Reddish; (4) Fournier (5) Knicks own 2023, 2025, 2027 & 2029 1st round picks unprotected; (6) Milwaukee's 2025 1st-round pick top 4 protected; (7) 2026 pick swap; and (8) Utah's 2024 2nd-round pick. Fournier is just for salary match purposes.

Do you think that would be enough to get it done and, if so, do you think the Knicks would do it?

Yeah, I think that's a realistic package for Donovan Mitchell and one New York would gladly agree to, but I have to wonder if Danny Ainge will want any package to begin with R.J. Barrett in return. They didn't acquire any youthful centerpiece in the Rudy Gobert trade besides Walker Kessler and he's a far cry as a prospect to Barrett. That will be an interesting discussion point as these talks move along.

Also, Jarred Vanderbilt can't be traded with another salaried player for a handful of months. That's not a big deal, but I thought I would mention it.

[Monster]

A backcourt of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell would be pretty exciting, but very small. They'd still need to add another star-caliber player to the mix, in my opinion. I think the Knicks will end up emptying the cupboard for Mitchell and having an annual playoff team, but zero chance of actually contending.

I predict the same, Cam. However, the development of Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett could make the Knicks a formidable playoff team. Moreover, I think they'll have significant cap space next summer. Having Donovan Mitchell, Brunson, Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett, combined with the allure of New York, could attract another star via free agency. Have to credit Leon Rose for being pretty savvy in the way he's set things up in New York - thinking several steps ahead.

Here's a deal I can see happening:

Knicks get: Donovan Mitchell and Jarred Vanderbilt

Utah gets the following: (1) Quickley; (2) Toppin; (3) Reddish; (4) Fournier (5) Knicks own 2023, 2025, 2027 & 2029 1st round picks unprotected; (6) Milwaukee's 2025 1st-round pick top 4 protected; (7) 2026 pick swap; and (8) Utah's 2024 2nd-round pick. Fournier is just for salary match purposes.

Do you think that would be enough to get it done and, if so, do you think the Knicks would do it?

Yeah, I think that's a realistic package for Donovan Mitchell and one New York would gladly agree to, but I have to wonder if Danny Ainge will want any package to begin with R.J. Barrett in return. They didn't acquire any youthful centerpiece in the Rudy Gobert trade besides Walker Kessler and he's a far cry as a prospect to Barrett. That will be an interesting discussion point as these talks move along.

Also, Jarred Vanderbilt can't be traded with another salaried player for a handful of months. That's not a big deal, but I thought I would mention it.

Yep it's worth remembering there will be various players that can't be traded for a while with other players. Of course with Lip's deal Utah and NY could do all the rest of the deal suggested and also do a trade of Vanderbilt for Reddish.

I'd wonder if Ainge would tell the Knicks that Fournier is basically a negative asset since he won't want to pay him beyond this year. Maybe he will demand Rose instead. :)

Let's say the deal Lip laid it is what Utah would get for Mitchell. They would have even more guards than they have now. They would have a ridiculous amount of draft picks and while they are Utah so they aren't exactly a hot bed of the NBA they would have assets to be one of the teams that could make moves to get into conversations of assets for players.

Also if they dump more good players they will likely have at least one high draft pick coming for themselves after this season. Can Ainge get some more somewhat intriguing young player back for older guys still on his roster? Can they find other solid players among some young guys? Can they rehab/add value to players and deal them at the trade deadline etc? If I was a Utah fan I would not be the thrilled to be completely rebuilding but the possible amount of assets that Utah could be acquiring may be absolutely massive. It could be exciting in a way. It would also help a lot knowing that Ainge, Zanik and even Lindsey are the guys making these decisions for the next few years.

[Lipoli390]

A backcourt of Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell would be pretty exciting, but very small. They'd still need to add another star-caliber player to the mix, in my opinion. I think the Knicks will end up emptying the cupboard for Mitchell and having an annual playoff team, but zero chance of actually contending.

I predict the same, Cam. However, the development of Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett could make the Knicks a formidable playoff team. Moreover, I think they'll have significant cap space next summer. Having Donovan Mitchell, Brunson, Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett, combined with the allure of New York, could attract another star via free agency. Have to credit Leon Rose for being pretty savvy in the way he's set things up in New York - thinking several steps ahead.

Here's a deal I can see happening:

Knicks get: Donovan Mitchell and Jarred Vanderbilt

Utah gets the following: (1) Quickley; (2) Toppin; (3) Reddish; (4) Fournier (5) Knicks own 2023, 2025, 2027 & 2029 1st round picks unprotected; (6) Milwaukee's 2025 1st-round pick top 4 protected; (7) 2026 pick swap; and (8) Utah's 2024 2nd-round pick. Fournier is just for salary match purposes.

Do you think that would be enough to get it done and, if so, do you think the Knicks would do it?

Yeah, I think that's a realistic package for Donovan Mitchell and one New York would gladly agree to, but I have to wonder if Danny Ainge will want any package to begin with R.J. Barrett in return. They didn't acquire any youthful centerpiece in the Rudy Gobert trade besides Walker Kessler and he's a far cry as a prospect to Barrett. That will be an interesting discussion point as these talks move along.

Also, Jarred Vanderbilt can't be traded with another salaried player for a handful of months. That's not a big deal, but I thought I would mention it.

Forgot about that rule on recently acquired players like Vanderbilt.

I've read a number of reports today that confirm you're probably right about Ainge wanting RJ Barrett as part of any package for Donovan. I liken it to Ainge wanting McDaniels, although I think Barrett is a slightly more valuable trade asset than McDaniels. Apparently, Ainge wants any package in a Miami deal to begin with Herro. But I can't see any Miami package, even with Herro, that could outbid what the Knicks can provide with or without Barrett.

But I wonder how insistent Ainge will be on getting Barrett. Once the Jazz have traded Donovan, they've essentially stripped their team down to the studs. Does it really make sense start a ground-up rebuild with RJ Barrett? I like him, his defense and his upside, but he was an inefficient 20-point scorer last year and doesn't strike me as anything close to a budding star. Ainge is a wily negotiator. I think he picks the best young player who might be gettable as his target and explores how much additional draft capital and other assets he can also get. Then he pivots to demanding every possible future draft asset he can get in lieu of getting the young upside player he initially demanded. Ainge will have a treasure chest of draft assets if he gets the sort of draft capital he can likely get from New York for Donovan. Those picks plus the picks he just got from MN, the pick he got for O'Neal and Utah's own picks would be a great foundation for a ground-up rebuild. They could use those draft assets for both picks and trades. I think that's where Danny will end up.

[thedoper]

Suns deserve to be fucked over for not figuring out Ayton earlier. The Sarver v Taylor battle for weird contract ineptitude continues with Sarver stretching ahead and Taylor (maybe??) phasing out of the NBA.

[Lipoli390]

More reporting on a possible Knicks deal to acquire Donovan Mitchell:

The Knicks naturally hope to complete the actual acquisition of Donovan Mitchell now without surrendering more than, say, four or five of those eight future firsts and by keeping RJ Barrett out of the deal. While Barrett's exclusion is likely fine with the Jazz, Utah (gulp) is said to want at least six of the eight picks. - via Marc Stein @

New York's recently re-signed center Mitchell Robinson is ineligible to be traded before Dec. 15, creating another hurdle, but the presence of Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride, Immanuel Quickley, Cam Reddish and Obi Toppin on its roster seemingly gives Rose optionality when it comes to packaging promising young players with his array of picks, with Grimes believed to be at the top of Utah's wish list. The Knicks' most pressing fear appears to be: Don't outbid yourself and end up being second-guessed leaguewide like Minnesota after what the Wolves gave up for Gobert. - via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

It's amazing to witness the impact the Wolves are having on the League - not by setting a high bar for success, winning, savvy or sound management, but by making a deal that almost everyone associated with the game considers heavily lopsided against the Wolves. I know there's a sense among some locally that the national take isn't fair; that they just don't respect us or fully understand the situation here. But I find that a bit like Andy Kaufman's character, Latina Gravas, who he portrayed in the TV series, "Taxi." When Latka would be ridiculed for saying or doing dumb things, he would say in a made-up foreign accident, "everybody stupid." It was a laugh line because the audience knew it wasn't everyone else who was stupid; it was Latka.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

And yet whoever gets the best player in the trade usually -- not always -- winds up satisfied with the move. The media ridicules the Timberwolves for nearly any "big" move that they make so this isn't anything new.

Had a team located in New York, Miami, or Los Angeles made the same exact trade -- even with the overpay -- it's likely that the tone would be much different. There would be more praise for that organization acquiring an elite player and enhancing their chances of contending. The difference here is that it's a mid-market team pushing in the chips and none of them had any clue that it was in the works.

Here's another more positive way that I've thought about this Rudy Gobert trade. Would I trade Karl-Anthony Towns for what the Utah Jazz just received for Gobert? And the answer I firmly stand by is that I would not.