Q12543 wrote:Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.
I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.
The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.
As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).
---
As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.
His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.
One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.
I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?
Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.
And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.
If you actually paid attention to my posts instead of being so enamored with your own ranting, you would realize that I actually am NOT the biggest KAT fan. In fact, I wanted to trade him last year!
My argument is less "pro-KAT" than it is saying that Simmons has had better players around him and plays a weaker schedule. Believe it or not, the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation do matter.
My argument is that they are both in the same tier below the elite players of the league. I don't see Simmons head and shoulders above KAT and your argument based only on team win percentage is weak when you compare the rest of the rosters.
My argument is the All-NBA defense, primary ball handling play maker who can drop a triple double any night while being able to play any position in the NBA is a big factor as to why Ben's teams win more than KAT. I do view a guy who does all that for his team as a tier above an elite efficient scorer who rebounds. If KAT was a wing he'd be just fine in this league, but he plays the most impactful defensive position in the game and he's a negative which really hinders his team's ability to win a lot of games and win important games.
Q12543 wrote:Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.
I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.
The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.
As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).
---
As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.
His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.
One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.
I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?
Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.
And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.
If you actually paid attention to my posts instead of being so enamored with your own ranting, you would realize that I actually am NOT the biggest KAT fan. In fact, I wanted to trade him last year!
My argument is less "pro-KAT" than it is saying that Simmons has had better players around him and plays a weaker schedule. Believe it or not, the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation do matter.
My argument is that they are both in the same tier below the elite players of the league. I don't see Simmons head and shoulders above KAT and your argument based only on team win percentage is weak when you compare the rest of the rosters.
My argument is the All-NBA defense, primary ball handling play maker who can drop a triple double any night while being able to play any position in the NBA is a big factor as to why Ben's teams win more than KAT. I do view a guy who does all that for his team as a tier above an elite efficient scorer who rebounds. If KAT was a wing he'd be just fine in this league, but he plays the most impactful defensive position in the game and he's a negative which really hinders his team's ability to win a lot of games and win important games.
Westbrook has averaged a triple double, Harden can, Giannis can, Ben can, LeBron can, Blake had a chance.
Only a few have played at a high level on both sides all the time LeBron.
Only one of them can shoot and play D consistently, LeBron.
Only one has won anything, LeBron.
You do not win if you cannot shoot, especially if it is your best player.
Q12543 wrote:Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.
I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.
The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.
As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).
---
As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.
His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.
One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.
I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?
Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.
And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.
If you actually paid attention to my posts instead of being so enamored with your own ranting, you would realize that I actually am NOT the biggest KAT fan. In fact, I wanted to trade him last year!
My argument is less "pro-KAT" than it is saying that Simmons has had better players around him and plays a weaker schedule. Believe it or not, the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation do matter.
My argument is that they are both in the same tier below the elite players of the league. I don't see Simmons head and shoulders above KAT and your argument based only on team win percentage is weak when you compare the rest of the rosters.
My argument is the All-NBA defense, primary ball handling play maker who can drop a triple double any night while being able to play any position in the NBA is a big factor as to why Ben's teams win more than KAT. I do view a guy who does all that for his team as a tier above an elite efficient scorer who rebounds. If KAT was a wing he'd be just fine in this league, but he plays the most impactful defensive position in the game and he's a negative which really hinders his team's ability to win a lot of games and win important games.
Westbrook has averaged a triple double, Harden can, Giannis can, Ben can, LeBron can, Blake had a chance.
Only a few have played at a high level on both sides all the time LeBron.
Only one of them can shoot and play D consistently, LeBron.
Only one has won anything, LeBron.
You do not win if you cannot shoot, especially if it is your best player.
You also do not win if you can't play defense so which do you want? Be a consistent playoff team that can make it to some conference finals potentially, but not win because he can't shoot or always fight for the 8 seed and miss out on it more times than not because he can't play defense? If you don't have a top 5 player in the NBA you aren't winning a title so why does that mentality still come up when we are nowhere near landing a guy of that caliber? Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. If you don't have 1 of those 4 players you haven't won a title since 2011. That guy isn't coming here so why do you guys have title or bust attitudes? It just baffles me that people don't want to get better just because it means they likely aren't winning a title when we are already in that boat.
Q12543 wrote:Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.
I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.
The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.
As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).
---
As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.
His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.
One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.
I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?
Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.
And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.
If you actually paid attention to my posts instead of being so enamored with your own ranting, you would realize that I actually am NOT the biggest KAT fan. In fact, I wanted to trade him last year!
My argument is less "pro-KAT" than it is saying that Simmons has had better players around him and plays a weaker schedule. Believe it or not, the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation do matter.
My argument is that they are both in the same tier below the elite players of the league. I don't see Simmons head and shoulders above KAT and your argument based only on team win percentage is weak when you compare the rest of the rosters.
My argument is the All-NBA defense, primary ball handling play maker who can drop a triple double any night while being able to play any position in the NBA is a big factor as to why Ben's teams win more than KAT. I do view a guy who does all that for his team as a tier above an elite efficient scorer who rebounds. If KAT was a wing he'd be just fine in this league, but he plays the most impactful defensive position in the game and he's a negative which really hinders his team's ability to win a lot of games and win important games.
Westbrook has averaged a triple double, Harden can, Giannis can, Ben can, LeBron can, Blake had a chance.
Only a few have played at a high level on both sides all the time LeBron.
Only one of them can shoot and play D consistently, LeBron.
Only one has won anything, LeBron.
You do not win if you cannot shoot, especially if it is your best player.
You also do not win if you can't play defense so which do you want? Be a consistent playoff team that can make it to some conference finals potentially, but not win because he can't shoot or always fight for the 8 seed and miss out on it more times than not because he can't play defense? If you don't have a top 5 player in the NBA you aren't winning a title so why does that mentality still come up when we are nowhere near landing a guy of that caliber? Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. If you don't have 1 of those 4 players you haven't won a title since 2011. That guy isn't coming here so why do you guys have title or bust attitudes? It just baffles me that people don't want to get better just because it means they likely aren't winning a title when we are already in that boat.
I do not care to play to lose.
Go get it all, nothing else matters in sports, and there is a prototype now in basketball. Shoot or die.
Q12543 wrote:Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.
I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.
The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.
As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).
---
As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.
His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.
One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.
I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?
Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.
And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.
If you actually paid attention to my posts instead of being so enamored with your own ranting, you would realize that I actually am NOT the biggest KAT fan. In fact, I wanted to trade him last year!
My argument is less "pro-KAT" than it is saying that Simmons has had better players around him and plays a weaker schedule. Believe it or not, the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation do matter.
My argument is that they are both in the same tier below the elite players of the league. I don't see Simmons head and shoulders above KAT and your argument based only on team win percentage is weak when you compare the rest of the rosters.
My argument is the All-NBA defense, primary ball handling play maker who can drop a triple double any night while being able to play any position in the NBA is a big factor as to why Ben's teams win more than KAT. I do view a guy who does all that for his team as a tier above an elite efficient scorer who rebounds. If KAT was a wing he'd be just fine in this league, but he plays the most impactful defensive position in the game and he's a negative which really hinders his team's ability to win a lot of games and win important games.
Westbrook has averaged a triple double, Harden can, Giannis can, Ben can, LeBron can, Blake had a chance.
Only a few have played at a high level on both sides all the time LeBron.
Only one of them can shoot and play D consistently, LeBron.
Only one has won anything, LeBron.
You do not win if you cannot shoot, especially if it is your best player.
You also do not win if you can't play defense so which do you want? Be a consistent playoff team that can make it to some conference finals potentially, but not win because he can't shoot or always fight for the 8 seed and miss out on it more times than not because he can't play defense? If you don't have a top 5 player in the NBA you aren't winning a title so why does that mentality still come up when we are nowhere near landing a guy of that caliber? Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. If you don't have 1 of those 4 players you haven't won a title since 2011. That guy isn't coming here so why do you guys have title or bust attitudes? It just baffles me that people don't want to get better just because it means they likely aren't winning a title when we are already in that boat.
I do not care to play to lose.
Go get it all, nothing else matters in sports, and there is a prototype now in basketball. Shoot or die.
You do know you are on a Timberwolves board?...aka probably the worst franchise in all of professional basketball. I guess enjoy only accepting winning while rooting for the biggest loser in the sport. The Seattle Timberwolves would like to thank you for your demanding attitude of title or bust.
The problem isn't that Simmons can't shoot. He literally won't shoot. At all. Almost never! Khansy used to rant and rave about this issue with Rubio all the time, yet Rubio is Kyle Korver compared to Ben Simmons!
He is so damn gifted otherwise that he has largely overcome this to be a positive player, but his offensive rating slipped to a career low last season. Teams know he simply won't shoot it.
Now, I would certainly prefer Simmons over DLO and I actually think Simmons and KAT could compliment each other really well. But I can't be convinced that one is the better player than the other. Both have glaring weaknesses that make it hard for me to favor one over the other.
