Back To The Winning (Wolves vs. Suns)

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I think it takes time for young guys to pick up thibs defensive schemes. Wiggins has finally looked like he is picking it up. Kat hasnt yet, but it doesn't mean he won't.

Thibs may have brought in new players, but he just moved the pieces around. He got rid of lavine, but brought in Teague. He brought in Butler and Gibson, but lost Rubio and to some degree, dieng.

We got killed in the paint last year too, but our transition defense is taking a huge hit. Kat, Wiggins, etc were crashing the offensive boards last year, but rubio was always back. This year we still crash the offensive boards well, but Teague is rarely ever the first one back because a) he attacks the paint and b) he's just a poor defender.

We are an excellent offensive rebounding team, but we have to be more aware of when to go for it, especially Kat.

It's almost impossible to be a good defense with a good backline of defense. We just have to hope Kat gets there because C is the position that makes the most defensive impact on the floor.

[Lipoli390]

I'm with you Lip. I'm not sure what the % breakdown is, but at the end of the day the coach is accountable for the performance of his team. All of the vets he's brought in - including Crawford by the way - have played on elite defensive units for some portion or most of their career. Butler is considered one of the top wing defenders in the NBA. Yet under Thibs' watch, we are actually getting progressively worse! We don't even have LaVine to kick around any more!

Still say huge issue with the players. Thibs was good enough to lead a top tier defense in Boston and Chicago. The same scheme worked with those 2 teams that competed for championships but isn't working with this team because the variables (the players) changed.

Different view points what is fine.

Yep, different view points for sure...and a terrific discussion here with two opinions which can both be supported. I find myself moving further and further away from thinking (hoping?) Thibs can be the right guy to coach this talented roster, and I find myself siding with Lip and Q on this issue. Kek talks about one particular variable changing (the players), but I wonder if another more important variable is in place here that might explain why Thibs' defense is so ineffective...a significant change in the philosophy of NBA offenses. Thibs was successful coaching defenses that included defensive stars like KG, Pierce, Noah, Butler, Deng, Butler, etc., but has been stunningly unsuccessful coaching defense with a roster that he essentially created to thrive on defense...Butler, Teague, Gibson plus three young players who were very good defenders in college (KAT, Wig and Gorgui). My opinion is that he continues to use schemes and motivational techniques that were effective then, but don't work in today's NBA. I also think that is why the East has won more games this season than the West, despite an apparent big disparity in the talent level of the two leagues...the East seems to have more young coaches who are not locked into antiquated NBA coaching techniques, and are more able to relate to and coach today's millennial players.

I wonder if this team might perform better if Thibs stepped aside to just be POBO, and a young guy like Ryan Saunders was allowed to coach.

Interesting analysis, LST. Regarding the issue of roster turnover, i'll point to the Celtics. They've had at least as much roster change as the Wolves from last season to this one -- trading players to make room for Hayward, trading Thomas for Irving. They they lose Hayward the first game of the season and end up starting a rookie and a 2nd year player. Yet, the Celtics haven't taken a step back defensively. Even more telling is they fact that Irving has gone from one of the League's worst defenders last season to one of the League's best. The key variable there is coaching. Yes, you need talented players. That's why Carlisle's team is struggling this season. He has very little talent to work with. But his teams (many different teams) otherwise consistently overachieve relative to their talent levels. Same with Pop who has coached one team, but many different roster combinations over the years. He's had talent, but he got that most out of that talent on both sides of the ball.

I agree that the younger breed of coach like Stevens might be the way to go. Another example is Luke Walton, who seems to be getting the most out of the very young roster he has.

[Wolvesfan21]

I think it takes time for young guys to pick up thibs defensive schemes. Wiggins has finally looked like he is picking it up. Kat hasnt yet, but it doesn't mean he won't.

Thibs may have brought in new players, but he just moved the pieces around. He got rid of lavine, but brought in Teague. He brought in Butler and Gibson, but lost Rubio and to some degree, dieng.

We got killed in the paint last year too, but our transition defense is taking a huge hit. Kat, Wiggins, etc were crashing the offensive boards last year, but rubio was always back. This year we still crash the offensive boards well, but Teague is rarely ever the first one back because a) he attacks the paint and b) he's just a poor defender.

We are an excellent offensive rebounding team, but we have to be more aware of when to go for it, especially Kat.

It's almost impossible to be a good defense with a good backline of defense. We just have to hope Kat gets there because C is the position that makes the most defensive impact on the floor.

I agree. And don't get me wrong on my post before. Most of the time KAT seems to be giving a strong effort. But I did see a little too much jogging back in some earlier games while the other center rim ran and got an easy layup.

KAT's offensive game is strong, he should be focusing 100 percent on becoming a better defender at this point, even if it sacrifices some offensive output. In the long run, The Wolves are not going anywhere unless he can become a solid defender. That's just a fact.

I think we all know he has the ability and that's why our expectations are so high.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

It's not rocket science. The center is literally the center point of the defense. It is THE most impactful position in the league when it comes to defense. It's the defensive equivalent of a ball handler who can score and setup teammates offensively. Who did Thibs have when he was successful in Boston and Chicago? KG and Noah. Two great defensive anchors (KG is an all-timer on defense). Who have the Celtics had for two years running now? Horford. The dude is a beast defensively outside of blocking shots. There's a reason his teams have been at or near the top multiple times. Pop had Duncan and now has LA and Pau who are both really good defensive bigs. GS has Draymond and frickin KD is playing like a monster on that end protecting the rim.

The big controls PnR coverage and protects the rim. Towns' PnR go-to is just stand in no mans land with anchors on his feet and let the ball handler do whatever they want. He exerts very little defensive energy on that end and it is clear as day when he is defending the PnR. It's not the coach. It's the player. Stevens is not doing it with garbage bigs. He has one of the best in the game in Horford and their backup big is a tree who can't be moved. Thibs has garbage defensive bigs and it's awful. When he had really good bigs it was the best in the league. You can blame the rest of the team with KAT all you want. We wouldn't even notice them if KAT could do what good defensive centers do and cover up for everyone else.

[Monster]

Suns

I finally watched this game this morning. I knew the Wolves lost. Just a quick hit here before watching the Jazz game.

Credit the Sun they played hard actually played defense and made plays. It reminded me of when the Wolves would play over their heads and actually do good things and beat good teams.

Wolves missed some shots and didn't make enough plays.

Positives.

Wiggins played some good d and made some hustle plays. It seems this is becoming more legit as the season has gone on.

Tyus being able to make plays on the defensive end this early in his career is a nice development. He needs to be able to hit more of those shots on his drives. I think he will find his way on offense though because the guy just looks like he has a knack for playing basketball.

Belly looked good.