FNG wrote:Ha, I admit this is provocative and I expected this response! But I'm curious how others here explain the resurgence of Houston and Memphis after their two key players went down, because that's what we do here...we're a bunch of smart NBA minds who analyze why teams perform better or worse, and I'm sure everyone can agree that what has happened in Houston and Memphis the past ten days is interesting. We can default to "it's just coincidence, and there's nothing to see here". But that seems a little lazy to me. Why do you guys think Houston and Memphis have been so good recently?
Are you really comparing Jalen Green to Ja Morant?
Abe, it seems like you're inferring that I suggested their two stat lines were similar, and I agree that would be absurd. But that wasn't at all the purpose of my thread, so sorry if I was unclear. Ja is a very productive player (albeit flawed in some ways), while I see Green as just flawed (although certainly with a big upside). The only way I compared the two is that they are both talented, flashy players and fan favorites, but for some reason their respective teams have both flourished since they each were sidelined. And I teed that up as a discussion topic looking for other reasons that Memphis and Houston are playing so well these past 10 days.
Now I admit I have a certain bias for players who always hustle, play effective defense, play unselfishly at all times, and protect that ball, and whose teams generally perform better when they're on the court compared to when they're off. Give me that kind of player over a one-way high-scoring player any day. (Of course, I'd rather have a high-scoring guy who also has all the other attributes too, because those guys win championships). And my bias is leading me toward a preliminary conclusion that I am asking others to refute.
And to Q's point, while Memphis is surging with their most exciting and high-scoring player on the bench, the Wolves become the Washington Generals when KAT or DLo go down. What's the difference?
There are probably between 37 and 3,795 reasons... most of which we are not privy to on a message board for another franchise who rarely watch Grizzlies games.
But rest assured... literally every single "smart" basketball mind in the NBA is choosing Ja Morant 100/100 times over Tyus Jones.
No offense, but even remotely comparing or mentioning one of the league's very worst rotation players with one of the league's most dynamic and provable positive contributors) negates any intended narrative momentum of this thread. It's such a huge bloated pink elephant literally shitting rainbows in the corner that it's impossible to ignore.
Um...okay? I'm not the most perceptive guy in the world, Abe, but I sense discussing the topic of whether recent lineup changes in Memphis and Houston had an impact on their recent success might not interest you ;) .
FNG wrote:Um...okay? I'm not the most perceptive guy in the world, Abe, but I sense discussing the topic of whether recent lineup changes in Memphis and Houston had an impact on their recent success might not interest you ;) .
Maybe I would have if you wanted a discussion about Memphis/Morant -OR- Houston/Green.
But you equated the two situations (and "entertaining" players, Green and Morant) which derails any meaningful discussion as we traipse around a room of soggy elephant rainbow poop.
What's crazy about Houston's success overall is that they are playing 7 rookies serious minutes....and all of them have been productive in certain instances. All have contributed in games.....some more than others, but all have been reasonably successful. Crazy considering the difficulty our team has in finding contributors from draft.
The provincial rube in me is really enjoying what Memphis is doing since local boy Tyus Jones replaced the injured Morant at PG...8 out of 9, many of them blowouts! Last night they got some 2021 Timberwolves luck facing a 76er team missing two starters, but a 35-point win is impressive in any circumstance. Tyus made 7 of 8 shots and, once again, had no turnovers. He is now the first player in 40 years to have more than 100 assists and fewer than 20 turnovers in his team's first 25 games of the season! Tyus will be a free agent this summer, so if nothing else, this run should bring him a nice contract...probably as a starter somewhere other than Memphis who is not likely to pony up for a backup point guard.
But everyone on the Grizzlies seems to be playing better...Bane, Jackson, Brooks, you name it. So maybe Tyus is merely the beneficiary of what I like to call Bob Gibson luck. You might recall what Tim McCarver said about Gibson. "He's the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches on the night the other team doesn't score any runs!"
Lucky or not, Memphis is the hottest team in basketball right now, and likely will be even better when their top scorer returns. They and Houston are really interesting stories.
When KG and Duncan were in their primes the individual matchup between the 2 was exciting to watch. KG was far more entertaining becuz he had to exert more energy to keep his team competitive. Tim Duncan was more affective becuz his team was more talented . If you look at their career matchups the numbers are strikingly equal. But Kg was more entertaining becuz he had to carry more of the load.
PorkChop wrote:When KG and Duncan were in their primes the individual matchup between the 2 was exciting to watch. KG was far more entertaining becuz he had to exert more energy to keep his team competitive. Tim Duncan was more affective becuz his team was more talented . If you look at their career matchups the numbers are strikingly equal. But Kg was more entertaining becuz he had to carry more of the load.
I'd suggest the biggest difference between them is Duncan was a bigger guy with a better anchor and could bully opponents inside where as KG was the superior athlete, more agile and could jump through the roof. KG could defend any position in his prime, Duncan was a straight up big.
If they changed teams I don't think their games would have changed. Duncan would not have been running around trying to make up for his lesser teammates as he didn't have the skills to do so. KG playing for those classic Spurs teams wouldn't suddenly become and inside, post up monster.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Interesting stat I heard about Memphis (Chris Vernon/The Ringer)...
With Morant, they were the league's worst three point defending team.
Without Morant, they've been the best.
How much of that is on one player?
Different scheme?
Luck/law of averages?
I think it's some combination of all of the above. Remember, Morant's net rating was negative before he even went out, suggesting that he was the captain of a pretty mediocre ship when he was on the floor. Perhaps he comes back to a rejuvenated supporting cast and they become even more dangerous. Or may be the defense slips a bit and he takes shots away from other highly efficient team mates that are thriving next to Tyus Jones.
Again, the plus-minus stuff is fascinating to me because it can shed light on how an immensely talented player like Morant doesn't necessarily equate to successful team performance. It actually begs more questions than it answers.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Interesting stat I heard about Memphis (Chris Vernon/The Ringer)...
With Morant, they were the league's worst three point defending team.
Without Morant, they've been the best.
How much of that is on one player?
Different scheme?
Luck/law of averages?
I think it's some combination of all of the above. Remember, Morant's net rating was negative before he even went out, suggesting that he was the captain of a pretty mediocre ship when he was on the floor. Perhaps he comes back to a rejuvenated supporting cast and they become even more dangerous. Or may be the defense slips a bit and he takes shots away from other highly efficient team mates that are thriving next to Tyus Jones.
Again, the plus-minus stuff is fascinating to me because it can shed light on how an immensely talented player like Morant doesn't necessarily equate to successful team performance. It actually begs more questions than it answers.
Yeah, still a small sample size and Memphis finally laid an egg in the 4th quarter last night, but the stats are interesting to say the least. In addition to the 3-point stat Abe mentioned, the Griz were dead last in points allowed per possession before Ja went down, and they have flipped 180 degrees to best in the league since then. Further, their defensive rating has improved from a dreadful 117 to a stunning 97.
Nobody talks about Taylor Jenkins much, but you can't help but notice what he is doing there. He seems to have a very good relationship with Ja, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are spending a lot of video time together while Ja is on the shelf talking about tweaks Ja can make in his game to get the same kind of results Memphis is getting now. Ja is young and supremely talented, and it will be fun to see what he has learned the last few weeks when he finally returns.
