Which one would you prefer? Bad team/player edition.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Player 1:
11.8 ppg
7.6 reb
1.5 apg / 1.2 TO
42.8% fg
35.9% 3fg
0.3 VORP career

vs.

Player 2:
16.1 ppg
6.6 reb
2.7 apg / 1.4 TO
42.2% fg
34.7% 3fg
2.5 VORP career (positive VORP every season of career)

Tough choice? At the very least, they're comparable, right? Let's look closer.

________


Those numbers are career PER 36 stats for (1) Hernangomez and (2) Frank Kaminsky. The major difference I see is that Hernangomez parlayed those stats into a 3 yr/$21M deal with the Timberwolves. Frank Kaminsky signed a vet minimum contract this fall with Sacramento for $1.8M.

They just cut him.




[Note: I'm not advocating for either player. Just pointing out the value of certain guys around the league...]

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

I say Kaminski. He is 2 years older, but he is a true C and his C minutes have a ok PER split, and the idea of getting him for $2m instead of instead of $7m is appealing.

Note: JHG's 3rd year is a team option, so if there is a "next POBO", he'll be able to walk away easily.

[Monster]

Player 1:
11.8 ppg
7.6 reb
1.5 apg / 1.2 TO
42.8% fg
35.9% 3fg
0.3 VORP career

vs.

Player 2:
16.1 ppg
6.6 reb
2.7 apg / 1.4 TO
42.2% fg
34.7% 3fg
2.5 VORP career (positive VORP every season of career)

Tough choice? At the very least, they're comparable, right? Let's look closer.

________


Those numbers are career PER 36 stats for (1) Hernangomez and (2) Frank Kaminsky. The major difference I see is that Hernangomez parlayed those stats into a 3 yr/$21M deal with the Timberwolves. Frank Kaminsky signed a vet minimum contract this fall with Sacramento for $1.8M.

They just cut him.




[Note: I'm not advocating for either player. Just pointing out the value of certain guys around the league...]

It's a worthwhile comparison. The difference between these guys is that Kaminsky is basically a C now and Juancho played minutes for a good Denver team at SF for a chunk of his time there. So Juancho has more value as a PF. Juancho has also some moderate...potential on his side. Kaminsky pretty much is what he is and that's maybe an NBA roster guy. Some advanced stats do favor Juancho over Frank but I'm Certainly not going to make a strong case there considering their contacts. Kaminsky is another example of a possible useful player hitting the waiver wire. I believe the Kings had some depth in that front court.

Speaking of Kings front court players did anyone else see the comments Olden Polynice said about Marvin Bagley?

[FNG]

Abe's comparative stats above are more reason I'm glad I found this board. I agree that Kaminsky has had the better career to date.

But monsterpile's comment that we're comparing a center to a PF is well taken. I don't think anyone here would want Kaminsky taking minutes away from Reid backing up KAT.

If one were to venture an optimistic take on Juancho, they would look at what he did in the 14 games he started for us after the trade last year. It was the only time in his career that he has been given more than 20 mpg (he played 29.2), and he answered the call. Wouldn't we all be pleased if he could duplicate his per 36 numbers he put up in his first chance at playing meaningful minutes? I might argue that if Juancho averages 15.9/8.9 again on 42% 3-point shooting (6 attempts per game), we have a decent chance of being a playoff team. He's only 25, and it's not unreasonable to assume he is continuing to get better. And with KAT back in the lineup, he may get even more open 3-point looks this year. Was the end of last year a fluke, or can he duplicate it?

Don't get me wrong. I think our team is too young and questionable on defense, and I would have preferred a solid veteran like RHJ as our starting PF. And I agree with the consensus here that Rosas likely overpaid him. But based on his success at the end of last year, I'm willing to give Juancho a chance as the starting PF.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The Wolves were 3 - 11 in those games. Hernangomez had -0.4 OBPM... -1.0 DBPM in those games. Those are in line with his career numbers.

Considering there were 191 previous games (regardless of minutes)... the 42% from three (the most positive stat) could very well be the anomaly.

One last note, Rosas wasn't here so he doesn't care... but as Wolves fans for years, we've talked ourselves into mediocre players on atrocious teams being better than they are based only on meaningless games later in the season. I wonder if Hernangomez's three point stroke will be the latest in a long line of such things.




[Note: I hope I'm wrong.]

[FNG]

The Wolves were 3 - 11 in those games. Hernangomez had -0.4 OBPM... -1.0 DBPM in those games. Those are in line with his career numbers.

Considering there were 191 previous games (regardless of minutes)... the 42% from three (the most positive stat) could very well be the anomaly.

One last note, Rosas wasn't here so he doesn't care... but as Wolves fans for years, we've talked ourselves into mediocre players on atrocious teams being better than they are based only on meaningless games later in the season. I wonder if Hernangomez's three point stroke will be the latest in a long line of such things.




[Note: I hope I'm wrong.]

Yep, it certainly could be the anomaly, and I agree that the Wolves were terrible at the end of last year at 3-11. But they were also KAT-less and led but a guy (D-Lo) who I'm not convinced is the kind of player who can lead a winning team. I might argue that Juancho (along with difficult-to-cheer for Beasley) was one of the bright spots at the end of last season. I hope he can build on last year's success, but I agree there are no guarantees with him.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The Wolves were 3 - 11 in those games. Hernangomez had -0.4 OBPM... -1.0 DBPM in those games. Those are in line with his career numbers.

Considering there were 191 previous games (regardless of minutes)... the 42% from three (the most positive stat) could very well be the anomaly.

One last note, Rosas wasn't here so he doesn't care... but as Wolves fans for years, we've talked ourselves into mediocre players on atrocious teams being better than they are based only on meaningless games later in the season. I wonder if Hernangomez's three point stroke will be the latest in a long line of such things.




[Note: I hope I'm wrong.]

Yep, it certainly could be the anomaly, and I agree that the Wolves were terrible at the end of last year at 3-11. But they were also KAT-less and led but a guy (D-Lo) who I'm not convinced is the kind of player who can lead a winning team. I might argue that Juancho (along with difficult-to-cheer for Beasley) was one of the bright spots at the end of last season. I hope he can build on last year's success, but I agree there are no guarantees with him.

I need to see a few games with Russell and Towns. I have some serious reservations about Russell... but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until he plays in games with Towns that matter.

So no rants on that one.

Yet...

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Juancho just does nothing for this team. He should have never been signed and 7 million dollars is atrocious for a guy like him. A good coach and GM wouldn't even have had him in the rotation this year if RHJ was still on the team. You can always find players off the scrap heap that can give you 90% of Juancho for significantly less money. Pay the good players, not the bottom level rotation players.

[KG4Ever]

I can't say I'm happy with anybody's salary on the Wolves roster (excluding all the near minimum guys) other than KAT's salary.