Game Report - Wolves v. Rockets

[Monster]

Steph Curry, Derozan, Butler, Lowry, Conley. All guys who didn't become all-star caliber players until their second contracts. Butler isn't the one exception.

I think that problem is not the Wiggins current level of play but more the fact that he has shown very little improvement over 180 games that he has played in NBA and most of his improvement came already during his first season when he scored 20 points per game post all star break. After that only improvement that we have seen has been his three point shooting.

Wiggins 2014-15 post all star break per 36 minutes stats:
18.4 pts, 4.5 rbs, 2.1 ast, 0.9 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 44.6 FG% 78.3 FT% 53.3 TS% 15.9 PER
2015-16:
21.2 pts, 3.7 rbs, 2.1 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 45.9 FG% 76.1 FT% 54.3 TS% 16.5 PER
2016-:
21.5 pts, 4.2 rbs, 2.3 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.4 blk 2.5 TOs 43.4 FG% 76.1 FT% 53.1 TS% 15.4 PER

So outside of improvement in his three point shooting, it is very difficult to find anything that he would do clearly better now than in second half of his rookie season. It even seems that his efficiency near rim has dropped from 66.5% (rookie season) to 60.4 (current season) that explains why improvement in three point shooting is not visible in TS%. (it doesn't even compensate his inefficiency elsewhere)

From Khan's list of players, only DeRozan and Lowry have had as long period of games in their early career without much statistical improvement, so it appears to be pretty damn rare that players that have not shown much improvement over their first 180 games, will suddenly start improving later.

This is a good post and people have made similar ones about Wiggins and it feels weird that his 3 point shooting like just sort of glossed over like it's not that big of a deal. IF his ability to shoot 3's like he has this year is real I think it's a pretty big deal.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Steph Curry, Derozan, Butler, Lowry, Conley. All guys who didn't become all-star caliber players until their second contracts. Butler isn't the one exception.

I think that problem is not the Wiggins current level of play but more the fact that he has shown very little improvement over 180 games that he has played in NBA and most of his improvement came already during his first season when he scored 20 points per game post all star break. After that only improvement that we have seen has been his three point shooting.

Wiggins 2014-15 post all star break per 36 minutes stats:
18.4 pts, 4.5 rbs, 2.1 ast, 0.9 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 44.6 FG% 78.3 FT% 53.3 TS% 15.9 PER
2015-16:
21.2 pts, 3.7 rbs, 2.1 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 45.9 FG% 76.1 FT% 54.3 TS% 16.5 PER
2016-:
21.5 pts, 4.2 rbs, 2.3 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.4 blk 2.5 TOs 43.4 FG% 76.1 FT% 53.1 TS% 15.4 PER

So outside of improvement in his three point shooting, it is very difficult to find anything that he would do clearly better now than in second half of his rookie season. It even seems that his efficiency near rim has dropped from 66.5% (rookie season) to 60.4 (current season) that explains why improvement in three point shooting is not visible in TS%. (it doesn't even compensate his inefficiency elsewhere)

From Khan's list of players, only DeRozan and Lowry have had as long period of games in their early career without much statistical improvement, so it appears to be pretty damn rare that players that have not shown much improvement over their first 180 games, will suddenly start improving later.

This is a good post and people have made similar ones about Wiggins and it feels weird that his 3 point shooting like just sort of glossed over like it's not that big of a deal. IF his ability to shoot 3's like he has this year is real I think it's a pretty big deal.

Right, the 3-point shooting is a pretty big deal- but on the whole, he's not moved the needle in terms of his overall impact. He has yet to even get to a WS/48 of .100, which is the benchmark for an average player for that metric. Again, that's just one metric, but if you go up and down the line - VORP, RPM, Net On/Off, it isn't pretty. PER is the only metric that shows him as an average player. And we are in the middle of his third year now! It's not like he was wasting away on the bench these past couple of years.

Could Wiggins eventually break through in the same way DeRozan did after years of being an inefficient, volume scorer? Yes he could, but the wait is painful and nothing is inevitable.

By the way Wiggins isn't the only one that has floundered. Rubio is having probably the worst year of his career so far; Dieng is looking better defensively, but otherwise his metrics are down in most categories; KAT continues to produce some great numbers, but his mental errors and defensive lapses have been infuriating; Dunn doesn't look like the polished 4-year college player we thought we were getting.

Really LaVine and may be Tyus Jones (of what little we've seen of him) are the only two guys that appear to have made strides since last year.

If players were truly improviing, we wouldn't be tied for least number of wins in the NBA right now. But that's the reality we face right now.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Good research Mikkleman on the 2nd half of the 2015 season. This is the stuff some of us have been saying for awhile now. That's not to say that Wiggins won't break through and make huge improvements. It's possible.

But the days of "he'll definitely be one of the elite players in the league" mantras is dying. Because NBA history tells us that if he hasn't made significant strides already, it's more likely that we're not going to see them suddenly occur several years in.


[Note: Another guy who keeps popping into my head when I think about Wiggins is Jerry Stackhouse. Granted, Stackhouse was a better passer than Wiggins. And Wiggins is more efficient. Maybe it's something about their overall impact on Wins/Losses that causes me to lump them together...]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Stackhouse, Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis, Antawn Jamison, Glen Robinson.....the list goes on of talented guys that could put points on the board but otherwise not impact the game much.

[Monster]

It was just a few months ago people were saying Wiggins would never be a shooter and now his shot legitimately looks better and he is hitting 3's. He has to sustain that for a while but man he looks to be way ahead of schedule on that. People have been saying his shot is a problem for a while. What if he has legitimately improved that aspect that people said wasn't going to be a strength?

Is it possible a few months from now Wiggins ball handling and playmaking looks a lot more legit? It's been 30 months since the guy has been drafted (remember he spent a while in the Cavs organization Summer league etc so in a way he has played for 4 different coaches organizations in his career) it still feels so early in his career and he does some things so well that is very impressive. I've heard so many NBA coaches gush about his ability to score. I get where the critism comes from (there is legit stuff) but man sometimes it just feels like people aren't wanting to feel good about Wiggins. It makes sense as a Wolves fan but it's also kind of a downer and it drives me a little crazy and Wiggins isn't like my favorite player or anything.

[Coolbreeze44]

It was just a few months ago people were saying Wiggins would never be a shooter and now his shot legitimately looks better and he is hitting 3's. He has to sustain that for a while but man he looks to be way ahead of schedule on that. People have been saying his shot is a problem for a while. What if he has legitimately improved that aspect that people said wasn't going to be a strength?

Is it possible a few months from now Wiggins ball handling and playmaking looks a lot more legit? It's been 30 months since the guy has been drafted (remember he spent a while in the Cavs organization Summer league etc so in a way he has played for 4 different coaches organizations in his career) it still feels so early in his career and he does some things so well that is very impressive. I've heard so many NBA coaches gush about his ability to score. I get where the critism comes from (there is legit stuff) but man sometimes it just feels like people aren't wanting to feel good about Wiggins. It makes sense as a Wolves fan but it's also kind of a downer and it drives me a little crazy and Wiggins isn't like my favorite player or anything.

Monster, most fans feel better when they can identify a scapegoat. It helps them to rationalize the disappointment they feel toward what we've been witnessing. If you can identify and place blame, the rest of the problems don't feel as insurmountable. I truly don't know why Wig has become the whipping boy for a whole plethora of problems. But from a fans perspective I guess I can understand the psychology. I'm guessing as things play out this season some attitudes will change. It is what it is.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wait. I thought Rubio was the whipping boy around here.

We can't have two of them! Get it together people.

[Monster]

Wait. I thought Rubio was the whipping boy around here.

We can't have two of them! Get it together people.

I think its at least 3 because Bazz gets it also. The surprise of the year is Payne has been spared. Thibs should probably get COY for that accomplishment alone right?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wait. I thought Rubio was the whipping boy around here.

We can't have two of them! Get it together people.

I think its at least 3 because Bazz gets it also. The surprise of the year is Payne has been spared. Thibs should probably get COY for that accomplishment alone right?

To be fair, Bazz deserves to be blamed.

He's trying to steal the soul of everybody who loves unselfishness on the basketball court. He might be satan, but I'm looking for a second source to confirm this.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Here are the whipping boys, in no particular order:

Thibs
KAT
Wiggins
LaVine
Rubio
Dieng

There is someone here for everyone! Others will add the bench to this list, but those are generally not the guys in the game when we experience these epic meltdowns that lose us games.