Q12543 wrote:Unlike Culver, Okogie has figured out a way to score reasonably efficiently despite a poor outside shot. He's able to slash and draw fouls at a much higher rate, which really helps. I think a guy like Okogie can thrive if he's out there with a bunch of shooters that opens up the floor for his marauding drives to the hoop.
It is unbelievably frustrating though to see him struggle from 3, where his form looks perfectly fine. What is it about this franchise that takes competent college shooters and turns them into progressively worse shooters!? These are guys that now dedicate 100% of their time to train and play basketball, yet none of these perimeter prospects we draft can ever develop a reliable 3-point shot. So frustrating. Okogie would be a $12M per year player if he shot 3's at 35%+.
I think Culver has a little more craftiness and skill as a ball handler and Projects as better finisher at the rim than Okogie. I think their overall impact projects to be somewhat similar but they way they get there is quite different. I think Culver will fins ways to get to the line...but getting to the line if he can't hit FTs is a problem. The difference to me is that Okogie I think Okogie seems more of a complimentary player it feels like Culver may not be as good in that way. I still like Culver I think he can be a worthwhile player. The question is whether the value he could bring in a trade is better than what he projects to be. I have literally no idea. Has his value dropped big time in this rookie season so bad they would be better off keeping him and hoping he improves?
Q12543 wrote:Unlike Culver, Okogie has figured out a way to score reasonably efficiently despite a poor outside shot. He's able to slash and draw fouls at a much higher rate, which really helps. I think a guy like Okogie can thrive if he's out there with a bunch of shooters that opens up the floor for his marauding drives to the hoop.
It is unbelievably frustrating though to see him struggle from 3, where his form looks perfectly fine. What is it about this franchise that takes competent college shooters and turns them into progressively worse shooters!? These are guys that now dedicate 100% of their time to train and play basketball, yet none of these perimeter prospects we draft can ever develop a reliable 3-point shot. So frustrating. Okogie would be a $12M per year player if he shot 3's at 35%+.
I think Culver has a little more craftiness and skill as a ball handler and Projects as better finisher at the rim than Okogie. I think their overall impact projects to be somewhat similar but they way they get there is quite different. I think Culver will fins ways to get to the line...but getting to the line if he can't hit FTs is a problem. The difference to me is that Okogie I think Okogie seems more of a complimentary player it feels like Culver may not be as good in that way. I still like Culver I think he can be a worthwhile player. The question is whether the value he could bring in a trade is better than what he projects to be. I have literally no idea. Has his value dropped big time in this rookie season so bad they would be better off keeping him and hoping he improves?
Unfortunately Culver's value has absolutely tanked. Does anyone think we'd get anything near a lottery pick, much less any kind of first rounder for him? It's one thing if he was shooting, say, 30% from 3 and 70% from the line, but his shot is so bad it's alarming. He's nearly worthless on the open market IMO.
Okogie would probably command a 2nd rounder, may be a late first, but that's about it. Ironically, our most valuable 1st/2nd year guy might just be Naz Reid. But I don't even think he'd bring back more than a mid-first since traditional bigs - even ones that can shoot OK - just aren't worth that much anymore and I'm sure people still have some questions about his work ethic and upside.
And as we've discussed, while McLaughlin is a revelation for a woeful franchise like us, he's really a dime a dozen as far as other front offices are concerned. He's nearly worthless as well (from a trade/asset perspective). I think he's fine as a cheap backup PG for us.
Q12543 wrote:Unlike Culver, Okogie has figured out a way to score reasonably efficiently despite a poor outside shot. He's able to slash and draw fouls at a much higher rate, which really helps. I think a guy like Okogie can thrive if he's out there with a bunch of shooters that opens up the floor for his marauding drives to the hoop.
It is unbelievably frustrating though to see him struggle from 3, where his form looks perfectly fine. What is it about this franchise that takes competent college shooters and turns them into progressively worse shooters!? These are guys that now dedicate 100% of their time to train and play basketball, yet none of these perimeter prospects we draft can ever develop a reliable 3-point shot. So frustrating. Okogie would be a $12M per year player if he shot 3's at 35%+.
I think Culver has a little more craftiness and skill as a ball handler and Projects as better finisher at the rim than Okogie. I think their overall impact projects to be somewhat similar but they way they get there is quite different. I think Culver will fins ways to get to the line...but getting to the line if he can't hit FTs is a problem. The difference to me is that Okogie I think Okogie seems more of a complimentary player it feels like Culver may not be as good in that way. I still like Culver I think he can be a worthwhile player. The question is whether the value he could bring in a trade is better than what he projects to be. I have literally no idea. Has his value dropped big time in this rookie season so bad they would be better off keeping him and hoping he improves?
Unfortunately Culver's value has absolutely tanked. Does anyone think we'd get anything near a lottery pick, much less any kind of first rounder for him? It's one thing if he was shooting, say, 30% from 3 and 70% from the line, but his shot is so bad it's alarming. He's nearly worthless on the open market IMO.
Okogie would probably command a 2nd rounder, may be a late first, but that's about it. Ironically, our most valuable 1st/2nd year guy might just be Naz Reid. But I don't even think he'd bring back more than a mid-first since traditional bigs - even ones that can shoot OK - just aren't worth that much anymore and I'm sure people still have some questions about his work ethic and upside.
And as we've discussed, while McLaughlin is a revelation for a woeful franchise like us, he's really a dime a dozen as far as other front offices are concerned. He's nearly worthless as well (from a trade/asset perspective). I think he's fine as a cheap backup PG for us.
I think there is some team out there that probably still valued Culver and would consider him worthwhile in a package deal. It only takes one team...but I recognize you are probably right. At least Culver can actually defend.
Let's see if McLaughlin continues to play well. He might be a dime a dozen guy or quite frankly nearly worthless. Plenty of guys like him age had a nice season then dropped off. I think there is a chance he is more of a guy that has more value like an ish Smith or TJ McConnell. Those guys aren't dime a dozen guys and...I know this is an optimistic take but I think McLaughlin has a chance to be a more complete player than either of those guys. I'd be thrilled with that kind of impact though. The thing is if you get a guy like McLaughlin and he is just kinda ok that also means you can likely keep him for cheap for years. Having solid/decent players around for a long time has some added value. Not game changing value but...we have seen this franchise cycle through so many individuals at nearly every level having someone here for even 4 years would be sort of a long time. lol
I agree with Monster. There are a few teams out there who still see Culver as the consensus lottery talent he was considered to be last summer. Now of course, no team will give up a lottery pick to get him. But I could see him getting us a lower first round pick in return. And I see him as a valuable piece for some teams as part of a package. For example, I could see including him with our lottery pick next June to move up a few spots.
Meanwhile, I haven't given up all hope for Culver as a player. He defends really well, is quick with the ball and as Monster points out, he has some nice craftiness in his game. Alas, his shot is so bad!! The Wolves need to hire the shooting coach equivalent of the dog whisperer and assign him to Culver all summer.
lipoli390 wrote:I agree with Monster. There are a few teams out there who still see Culver as the consensus lottery talent he was considered to be last summer. Now of course, no team will give up a lottery pick to get him. But I could see him getting us a lower first round pick in return. And I see him as a valuable piece for some teams as part of a package. For example, I could see including him with our lottery pick next June to move up a few spots.
Meanwhile, I haven't given up all hope for Culver as a player. He defends really well, is quick with the ball and as Monster points out, he has some nice craftiness in his game. Alas, his shot is so bad!! The Wolves need to hire the shooting coach equivalent of the dog whisperer and assign him to Culver all summer.
The weird thing to me about Culver is...he has a broke shot but he also has some weird touch to it. I mean how he guides some of those 3's in...the touch isn't there at the FT line because the shot is just so wonky. I don't see Culver ever being out of the league in X amount of years because he can handle the ball and defend and is a pretty good athlete. Thats not what you want in #6 overall pick that you traded up for but as I have said a number of times sometimes even getting a worthwhile rotation player at those top 10 spots can help you its when you end up totally getting nothing is really rough. Okogie made some strides building on what he was good at. If Culver can build on what he is good at and shoring up a bit the stuff he isn't good at like Okogie did he could be a pretty useful player even in year 2. Flawed but useful.
lipoli390 wrote:I agree with Monster. There are a few teams out there who still see Culver as the consensus lottery talent he was considered to be last summer. Now of course, no team will give up a lottery pick to get him. But I could see him getting us a lower first round pick in return. And I see him as a valuable piece for some teams as part of a package. For example, I could see including him with our lottery pick next June to move up a few spots.
Meanwhile, I haven't given up all hope for Culver as a player. He defends really well, is quick with the ball and as Monster points out, he has some nice craftiness in his game. Alas, his shot is so bad!! The Wolves need to hire the shooting coach equivalent of the dog whisperer and assign him to Culver all summer.
The weird thing to me about Culver is...he has a broke shot but he also has some weird touch to it. I mean how he guides some of those 3's in...the touch isn't there at the FT line because the shot is just so wonky. I don't see Culver ever being out of the league in X amount of years because he can handle the ball and defend and is a pretty good athlete. Thats not what you want in #6 overall pick that you traded up for but as I have said a number of times sometimes even getting a worthwhile rotation player at those top 10 spots can help you its when you end up totally getting nothing is really rough. Okogie made some strides building on what he was good at. If Culver can build on what he is good at and shoring up a bit the stuff he isn't good at like Okogie did he could be a pretty useful player even in year 2. Flawed but useful.
What position would he play? Say we sign Beasley, JMac is DLO's backup, and Okogie isn't part of a trade. Where would that leave Culver in the rotation?
lipoli390 wrote:I agree with Monster. There are a few teams out there who still see Culver as the consensus lottery talent he was considered to be last summer. Now of course, no team will give up a lottery pick to get him. But I could see him getting us a lower first round pick in return. And I see him as a valuable piece for some teams as part of a package. For example, I could see including him with our lottery pick next June to move up a few spots.
Meanwhile, I haven't given up all hope for Culver as a player. He defends really well, is quick with the ball and as Monster points out, he has some nice craftiness in his game. Alas, his shot is so bad!! The Wolves need to hire the shooting coach equivalent of the dog whisperer and assign him to Culver all summer.
The weird thing to me about Culver is...he has a broke shot but he also has some weird touch to it. I mean how he guides some of those 3's in...the touch isn't there at the FT line because the shot is just so wonky. I don't see Culver ever being out of the league in X amount of years because he can handle the ball and defend and is a pretty good athlete. Thats not what you want in #6 overall pick that you traded up for but as I have said a number of times sometimes even getting a worthwhile rotation player at those top 10 spots can help you its when you end up totally getting nothing is really rough. Okogie made some strides building on what he was good at. If Culver can build on what he is good at and shoring up a bit the stuff he isn't good at like Okogie did he could be a pretty useful player even in year 2. Flawed but useful.
What position would he play? Say we sign Beasley, JMac is DLO's backup, and Okogie isn't part of a trade. Where would that leave Culver in the rotation?
It's a good question and honestly I don't have answer. Assuming Layman is healthy that's another guy to consider as well. It would not be shocking if they drafted another wing also. Just to be clear on my Culver take it's based on what I think he could have as value to a team if he does some decent development. I think it's possible that development is elsewhere. Will there be another opportunity for Rosas to being in another higher level player this offseason where Culver would be a part of the package? Idk I'm not holding my breath on that or worried Culver will be gone but I'm also going to enjoy Culver off he is here I'm not concerned At this point where he was drafted only if he can help this team even if that's as a bench guy.
