Camden wrote:Well said, Lip. I don't have much to add as I think your feelings and explanations closely resemble mine here.
I think it's largely irresponsible for anyone, especially Dwyane Wade given his wide platform, to attribute the hate towards those Miami Heat teams to racism or anything similar. Simply, fans didn't like that two stars left their teams to team up with another star, and it didn't help that they landed in the flashy market that is Miami. Furthermore, they were braggadocios from the beginning with LeBron James and "The Decision" followed by cocky remarks regarding how many championships they'd win together. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..." Their own actions caused much of the vitriol -- not their skin color.
Cam did you watch the conversation which I posted? It's only a few minutes long.
Yes, I watched the link you shared. I think the topic of racism and skin color didn't even need to be mentioned given the context of the discussion. I think those comments diluted the substantiality of the entire conversation.
Somehow we went from talking about players that made uncompetitive choices in free agency and getting backlash for it to yet another conversation about race. Not everything needs to be about skin color. Some things don't require a race component.
Camden wrote:Well said, Lip. I don't have much to add as I think your feelings and explanations closely resemble mine here.
I think it's largely irresponsible for anyone, especially Dwyane Wade given his wide platform, to attribute the hate towards those Miami Heat teams to racism or anything similar. Simply, fans didn't like that two stars left their teams to team up with another star, and it didn't help that they landed in the flashy market that is Miami. Furthermore, they were braggadocios from the beginning with LeBron James and "The Decision" followed by cocky remarks regarding how many championships they'd win together. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..." Their own actions caused much of the vitriol -- not their skin color.
Cam did you watch the conversation which I posted? It's only a few minutes long.
Yes, I watched the link you shared. I think the topic of racism and skin color didn't even need to be mentioned given the context of the discussion. I think those comments diluted the substantiality of the entire conversation.
Somehow we went from talking about players that made uncompetitive choices in free agency and getting backlash for it to yet another conversation about race. Not everything needs to be about skin color. Some things don't require a race component.
I get where you are coming from but Wade was the person that lived in this situation and he did think it was worth commenting on. Should we dismiss his experience and perspective?
Camden wrote:Well said, Lip. I don't have much to add as I think your feelings and explanations closely resemble mine here.
I think it's largely irresponsible for anyone, especially Dwyane Wade given his wide platform, to attribute the hate towards those Miami Heat teams to racism or anything similar. Simply, fans didn't like that two stars left their teams to team up with another star, and it didn't help that they landed in the flashy market that is Miami. Furthermore, they were braggadocios from the beginning with LeBron James and "The Decision" followed by cocky remarks regarding how many championships they'd win together. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..." Their own actions caused much of the vitriol -- not their skin color.
Cam did you watch the conversation which I posted? It's only a few minutes long.
Yes, I watched the link you shared. I think the topic of racism and skin color didn't even need to be mentioned given the context of the discussion. I think those comments diluted the substantiality of the entire conversation.
Somehow we went from talking about players that made uncompetitive choices in free agency and getting backlash for it to yet another conversation about race. Not everything needs to be about skin color. Some things don't require a race component.
I get where you are coming from but Wade was the person that lived in this situation and he did think it was worth commenting on. Should we dismiss his experience and perspective?
It's a matter of relevance. The question J.J. Redick asked was: "Why do you think the reaction to you guys deciding to join up in Miami was so different?" At no point should race have come up in Dwyane Wade's response given the question asked.
Also, let's not be misconstrued here. No one here is dismissing Wade's experiences or arguing that he hasn't dealt with racist comments or prejudices of any kind. However, we should absolutely push back when racism is wrongly used as a shield or weapon of sorts. Not only does that devalue actual racism, but it skirts around the actual topic of discussion.
From my experience, basketball players making up to $600,000 on a single game night are always the ones who are the most accurate when discussing perceptions from the common man/fan.
Camden wrote:Well said, Lip. I don't have much to add as I think your feelings and explanations closely resemble mine here.
I think it's largely irresponsible for anyone, especially Dwyane Wade given his wide platform, to attribute the hate towards those Miami Heat teams to racism or anything similar. Simply, fans didn't like that two stars left their teams to team up with another star, and it didn't help that they landed in the flashy market that is Miami. Furthermore, they were braggadocios from the beginning with LeBron James and "The Decision" followed by cocky remarks regarding how many championships they'd win together. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..." Their own actions caused much of the vitriol -- not their skin color.
Cam did you watch the conversation which I posted? It's only a few minutes long.
Yes, I watched the link you shared. I think the topic of racism and skin color didn't even need to be mentioned given the context of the discussion. I think those comments diluted the substantiality of the entire conversation.
Somehow we went from talking about players that made uncompetitive choices in free agency and getting backlash for it to yet another conversation about race. Not everything needs to be about skin color. Some things don't require a race component.
I get where you are coming from but Wade was the person that lived in this situation and he did think it was worth commenting on. Should we dismiss his experience and perspective?
It's a matter of relevance. The question J.J. Redick asked was: "Why do you think the reaction to you guys deciding to join up in Miami was so different?" At no point should race have come up in Dwyane Wade's response given the question asked.
Also, let's not be misconstrued here. No one here is dismissing Wade's experiences or arguing that he hasn't dealt with racist comments or prejudices of any kind. However, we should absolutely push back when racism is wrongly used as a shield or weapon of sorts. Not only does that devalue actual racism, but it skirts around the actual topic of discussion.
Thanks for the response.
You said that you were not dismissing Wade's experiences but you said that race had nothing to do with this but it's seemed clear Wade who actually lived this likely had experiences that there was a race component which is why he expressed his thoughts. I know what you are getting at that the race conversation can certainly be weaponized. I'm not sure we should always jump to that every time though when someone brings up race. He said "some" hate was directed toward them because they were black. He didn't call out anyone directly (like a whole fan base) it seemed more like yeah that was a thing that did happen but he brought up many more reasons previously that both you and Lip also brought up.
There was much more to this conversation than just race. Isn't jumping on this quote and saying it was wrong sort of the thing you want to avoid it being all about race? I appreciate what you and Lip have shared. I hope I've been respectful to you in my response. I think being able to share our thoughts and perspectives back and forth is what we can do to keep from the polarization I think we all would like to see become less than it is now.
I think the other thing on this is OF COURSE a writer picks this one tidbit up from the full conversation and twists it into big news ("TRUTHBOMB!!!") and then all the aggregators (like Yahoo!) pick up the story. Nothing sells like accusations of racism! Even Abe got sucked in!
Camden wrote:Well said, Lip. I don't have much to add as I think your feelings and explanations closely resemble mine here.
I think it's largely irresponsible for anyone, especially Dwyane Wade given his wide platform, to attribute the hate towards those Miami Heat teams to racism or anything similar. Simply, fans didn't like that two stars left their teams to team up with another star, and it didn't help that they landed in the flashy market that is Miami. Furthermore, they were braggadocios from the beginning with LeBron James and "The Decision" followed by cocky remarks regarding how many championships they'd win together. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..." Their own actions caused much of the vitriol -- not their skin color.
Cam did you watch the conversation which I posted? It's only a few minutes long.
Yes, I watched the link you shared. I think the topic of racism and skin color didn't even need to be mentioned given the context of the discussion. I think those comments diluted the substantiality of the entire conversation.
Somehow we went from talking about players that made uncompetitive choices in free agency and getting backlash for it to yet another conversation about race. Not everything needs to be about skin color. Some things don't require a race component.
I get where you are coming from but Wade was the person that lived in this situation and he did think it was worth commenting on. Should we dismiss his experience and perspective?
It's a matter of relevance. The question J.J. Redick asked was: "Why do you think the reaction to you guys deciding to join up in Miami was so different?" At no point should race have come up in Dwyane Wade's response given the question asked.
Also, let's not be misconstrued here. No one here is dismissing Wade's experiences or arguing that he hasn't dealt with racist comments or prejudices of any kind. However, we should absolutely push back when racism is wrongly used as a shield or weapon of sorts. Not only does that devalue actual racism, but it skirts around the actual topic of discussion.
Interestingly, and in Wade's defense, Redick answered his own question by referring to race before Wade had a chance to respond. Until that point, Wade discussed the fan reaction and hate without any reference to race as an factor. Redick knew what he was doing. He essentially set Wade up for the comments that ended up being quoted. Wade shouldn't have so readily and emphatically embraced Redick's ratings-driving characterization, but I understand telling Redick he was wrong would have been difficult under the circumstances.
As Q noted, the writer I was responding to picked up that one little tidbit from Wade's more extensive discussion that made no reference to race. And that's precisely why it's important to be careful about invoking skin color as an explanation for bad things. Race is an understandably inflammatory issue that will always get disproportionate attention and coverage. It's not that Wade's comments were taken out of context. Race is such a powerful and sensitive issue that whenever it's mentioned it invariably becomes the context and eclipses everything else. As I noted, Redick knew what he was doing. Wade got caught up in the moment. Redick was the main instigator (and i think instigator is the right word), but in my view Wade (as a prominent public figure) is still responsible for so readily and unequivocally taking the ball and running with it, telling Redick that he "hit the nail on the head."
