Pick one player in the league not named Lebron

[thedoper]

Before the season, I imagined Russell and Rubio being able to coexist in the starting lineup together. That's not the case anymore. It just doesn't work. Actually, it's a terrible combination. I don't even know why Saunders continues to try playing them together considering the results have been dreadful. The main issue reverts back to Rubio being absolutely useless when he's not handling the ball and allowing the defense to key in on other Wolves players. So, even in this super hypothetical scenario, I just don't see any way in which Rubio should be a starter.

I think its time to start talking about whether Rubio should even be playing at all. Awful on both sides of the ball this year and a huge overpay at 17 mil. Any thought of him being a tradeable asset has sailed for now, which means we're back at the all to familiar position of hoping his play will turn the corner. Yikes.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Before the season, I imagined Russell and Rubio being able to coexist in the starting lineup together. That's not the case anymore. It just doesn't work. Actually, it's a terrible combination. I don't even know why Saunders continues to try playing them together considering the results have been dreadful. The main issue reverts back to Rubio being absolutely useless when he's not handling the ball and allowing the defense to key in on other Wolves players. So, even in this super hypothetical scenario, I just don't see any way in which Rubio should be a starter.

I think its time to start talking about whether Rubio should even be playing at all. Awful on both sides of the ball this year and a huge overpay at 17 mil. Any thought of him being a tradeable asset has sailed for now, which means we're back at the all to familiar position of hoping his play will turn the corner. Yikes.

Yep. I'm already there, but I don't see Saunders having the stones to bench him nor the approval from Rosas to do so. Therefore, the chances of that happening are absolutely minimal. I just wish Minnesota never would have traded for him and there's no hindsight required to say that. Any chance of Rubio having actual value will come next season as an expiring contract.

[KiwiMatt]

Giannis for me. Near perfect fit next to KAT.

[FNG]

I should clarify, because you guys may have misunderstood me. I was talking about Ricky Rubio, not Marco ;) . You know, the guy who played more like Marco at the start of the season as primarily a backup PG, but is averaging over 8 assists a game his past 5 games with minimal turnovers as he's eased back into the starting lineup...and that's in only about 28 minutes a game. To put that into perspective, only 3 PG's in the league are averaging more than 8 APG, and they're doing it in a lot more minutes than Ricky is. Meanwhile, did you see how big Rozier's eyes were every time he came up the court and saw that Beasley was "guarding" him. DLO is going to start if and when he returns from his bilateral leg weakness...that's a given... and I'm not looking forward to backcourts lighting up DLO/Beasley...it's too tough on my sensitive heart. Ricky isn't Patrick Beverly on defense, but he still would provide a huge defensive upgrade to our starting unit. And three big-time scorers like KAT, DLO and Ant don't need a 4th big scorer on the court with them...they need someone to get them the ball like Ricky has now that he seems to be getting back into the groove.

Yeah, I get that DLO and Ricky has been a poor combo so far this season, although I frankly don't know whom to blame that on...neither one looked like themselves early this season. But this is a unique season, with a lot of new pieces that hadn't ever played together before and didn't have the luxury of a real practice pre-season or even practices between games. Are we surprised that Ricky and DLO didn't play well together at first? I'm not. But the sample size of their minutes together is absurdly small compared to the body of work Ricky has put up during his career...even as recently as last year. Give Ricky starter's minutes, and he will do for KAT, Ant and DLO (or Beasley if DLO is out) what he did for for Booker last season, or Mitchell in Utah, or heck...Love and Pek here.

Here's what I know. There is a lot of evidence that shows DLO and Beasley are the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA and their chance of becoming even average defenders is about as much as Ricky becoming a deadeye shooter, and it's even more of a disaster when Ant is next to them at SF. I'm not going to knee-jerk Rubio out of a starting PG role he has thrived in for several seasons just because of a handful of bad games paired up with DLO. Ricky has never had the kind of explosive scoring next to him that he has this season with KAT, DLO/Beasley, and Ant. Aren't you just a little bit curious to see if he can continue the elite APG pace he has been on the past few games?

All this is academic anyway, because my sense is that Ryan favors offense over defense in his backcourt, so I suspect that he is going to stay with DLO and Beasley when both are healthy...and I expect the results to be disastrous. It's one of my biggest issues with Ryan, his love for Josh Okogie being my other big one.

[Porckchop]

Doesn't look like Phoenix or Utah are missing Ricky too much these days.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

...but is averaging over 8 assists a game his past 5 games with minimal turnovers as he's eased back into the starting lineup...and that's in only about 28 minutes a game.

Ricky Rubio's averaging 6.0 PPG (.446 TS%), 8.0 APG (2.6 TOV), 3.8 RPG, and 2.0 SPG in 27.9 MPG over his last five games. Even if we dismiss the fact that a five game sample size doesn't outweigh the other 19 he's played thus far, those numbers are still pathetic. And to your point, there are seven players averaging over eight assists per game, but that's for the season -- not just a handful of games. That's entirely different.

Ricky isn't Patrick Beverly on defense, but he still would provide a huge defensive upgrade to our starting unit.

What is this take based on? The eye test doesn't suggest that nor do some of the metrics you tend to favor. The difference between Rubio and D'Angelo Russell or Malik Beasley on defense is negligible this season, especially considering the team as a whole has been poor defensively regardless of who's been inserted into the starting lineup.

DRPM
Rubio: -1.34 (67th among qualified PG's)

Russell: -1.76 (77th among qualified PG's)
Beasley: -1.38 (100th among qualified SG's)

NBA.com DRtg
Rubio: 111.9 (10th-best on the Wolves)

Russell: 118.2 (15th-best on the Wolves)
Beasley: 115.1 (14th-best on the Wolves)

The Wolves are currently ranked 23rd as a team in defensive rating. Minnesota would be insignificantly better in that regard while displacing a valuable scorer and shooter from the lineup. At this juncture, Rubio is neither a solid offensive or defensive player. He's put himself firmly in the bad overall category -- right there with Josh Okogie who you seem to [accurately] have an issue with Ryan Saunders playing too much. Please make it make sense.

[Wolvesfan21]

What would the Wolves do without those 6 points a game from Rubio on terrible shooting? How can you replace that?

[FNG]

...but is averaging over 8 assists a game his past 5 games with minimal turnovers as he's eased back into the starting lineup...and that's in only about 28 minutes a game.

Ricky Rubio's averaging 6.0 PPG (.446 TS%), 8.0 APG (2.6 TOV), 3.8 RPG, and 2.0 SPG in 27.9 MPG over his last five games. Even if we dismiss the fact that a five game sample size doesn't outweigh the other 19 he's played thus far, those numbers are still pathetic. And to your point, there are seven players averaging over eight assists per game, but that's for the season -- not just a handful of games. That's entirely different.

Ricky isn't Patrick Beverly on defense, but he still would provide a huge defensive upgrade to our starting unit.

What is this take based on? The eye test doesn't suggest that nor do some of the metrics you tend to favor. The difference between Rubio and D'Angelo Russell or Malik Beasley on defense is negligible this season, especially considering the team as a whole has been poor defensively regardless of who's been inserted into the starting lineup.

DRPM
Rubio: -1.34 (67th among qualified PG's)

Russell: -1.76 (77th among qualified PG's)
Beasley: -1.38 (100th among qualified SG's)

NBA.com DRtg
Rubio: 111.9 (10th-best on the Wolves)

Russell: 118.2 (15th-best on the Wolves)
Beasley: 115.1 (14th-best on the Wolves)

The Wolves are currently ranked 23rd as a team in defensive rating. Minnesota would be insignificantly better in that regard while displacing a valuable scorer and shooter from the lineup. At this juncture, Rubio is neither a solid offensive or defensive player. He's put himself firmly in the bad overall category -- right there with Josh Okogie who you seem to [accurately] have an issue with Ryan Saunders playing too much. Please make it make sense.

The reason I put a little more faith in Ricky's 5-game sample is because of the impact Covid clearly had on him early in the season, and the revival in his play as he continues to recover from it, is so apparent to the naked eye. There was a narrative in this forum that age had caught up to Ricky in the 4-5 months since he was playing at a very high level in Phoenix (where Devin Booker gushed about his value)...my God, it's amazing he didn't need a walker at the ripe old age of 30 ;-) . Covid is an extraordinarily crippling disease, and Ricky's return to form in the past 5, actually now 6, games is quite revealing to me. We don't know, but it's not unlikely that Ricky tried to come back from his bout with Covid too early. Maybe if he had taken several weeks to recover like KAT did, T-Wolves fans wouldn't have had to watch 3 weeks of a Rubio nobody has ever seen before. It's great KAT is back, but it's clear to me he's far from 100% even after taking off several weeks battling Covid. One of my reasons for optimism is that I think we are going to see a resurgence in KAT similar to what we have seen from Ricky in the past 6 games.

I see you trying to create a narrative that DLO and Beasley are as good defenders as Ricky, and I have to admit that is a courageous stance to take! Yes, we can choose to look at the first month of this season and say that all three have been horrible defenders, because they have. But I think we can agree that not only do DLO and Beas fail the eye test when it comes to effective defense, but both have always ranked at the bottom of the league in defensive effectiveness. Ricky on the other hand has always ranked much higher than DLO and Beas in defensive measures, until he dropped off a cliff at the start of this season...at both ends of the court. So as astute basketball fans, we have to surmise why his performance was so uncharacteristic the first couple months of the year. Did Father Time finally catch up with him at 30, or is his slow recovery from Covid finally bringing back the Rubio who averaged 13/9/5 with 1.5 steals and excellent defense last season? It's a valid discussion topic, but you know what my theory is. I hope we continue to see a Ricky Rubio like we saw last night, and in the previous week.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I see you trying to create a narrative that DLO and Beasley are as good defenders as Ricky, and I have to admit that is a courageous stance to take!

No, FNG, that's not the point that was being presented to you. Ricky Rubio is the superior defender among that group, but the difference is negligible. Insignificant. Unimportant. The upgrade in defense isn't enough to turn this Wolves team or that particular lineup into a respectable defense, but removing Malik Beasley from the lineup to include Rubio would be devastating from an outside shooting and scoring perspective. The juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze. There's no world in which Rubio should be inserted into Minnesota's starting lineup when everyone else is healthy. That's the take.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Regardless of what our feeling may be on DLO vs. Rubio, I don't think there is any question that DLO is higher on the Wolves coaching/front office pecking order and will get the nod over Rubio. And based on how Rubio has played and meshed with DLO, that makes sense on the merits too.

Having said that, I still don't think DLO is much of difference maker, i.e. he isn't going to move the needle much one way or the other. Whatever goodness he brings with his outside shooting is largely wiped away by poor defense and mediocre overall efficiency.