... while trying to hide Zach's defense on Ant (hence Ant's impressive 21/9/6)...
I caution against judging any young Wolves player by volume stats. Whether it's JR Rider, Rashad McCants, Zach Lavine, Andrew Wiggins, et al... we've been down that road before.
- Edwards shot 35% on 20 shots to get those 21 points.
- He's shot better than 50% in a game 2 times season.
- He's shot below 32%... 13 times in 33 games.
While I like to see him adding to the "do-stuff" stats... the efficiency of his game is directly leading to losses. I know that's "part of the plan" per usual. Previously, that has led to a lot of bad habits that never led to players figuring out how to play winning basketball.
The Wolves gave Edwards a team-high 37 minutes. And he's been averaging more points than Towns in the past couple of weeks.
We all know that the team doesn't really care at this point about winning games.
We all know that Edwards must develop and get better.
We might disagree on giving him 35 seemingly accountability-free minutes per game is the best strategy.
I don't disagree at all, abe. Ant was able to get a lot of good looks off Zach, but 7 for 20 is not a good night, There is no way Ant should be getting 37 minutes...great potential, I think, but not ready yet. I would have him backing up Culver at SF (provided Culver showed what he did in the couple weeks pre-injury) and playing 15-20 a night.
I liked Finch's comments yesterday about Ant. He wants 2/3 of his shots to be around the basket, and I agree. I hope that Finch is the kind of coach who holds players accountable, and that Ant finds a seat on the bench if he continues to rely on 3's, long 2's and floaters. Get to the basket, lad, and then either score or dish (and to his credit, he did dish well last night).
Q12543 wrote:The loss isn't KAT's fault obviously, as the bench played poorly this game, but he continues to prove that he isn't quite in that first tier of NBA talent yet. All-star caliber? Sure. All-NBA 1st or 2nd team? No way.
May be after he gets himself completely healthy and emotionally on track he will get there eventually. Right now he's a damn good player, but not top 10 or 12.
I think KAT's been ast that 2nd team all-NBA level before. He's obviously not at the top of his game at the moment, which is no surprise given what's happened to him - the death of his mother and other relatives, a torn wrist ligament and Covid infection. He's been back playing for only about a week since recovering from Covid.
Having said that, no doubt in my mind that Zach LaVine is playing at an all-NBA level right now. He could still be a T-Wolf.
I don't know. Something is still just a bit off to me with LaVine. There is no denying that he is a super gifted shooter and scorer. But he still turns it over too much and while he does get his fair share of assists, I don't necessarily see him getting guys a bunch of easy buckets playing off of him.
But yeah, at some point when you shoot and score THAT efficiently, it compensates for a lot of other flaws.
Shame on you, Q, for hanging that breaking ball out there for me! I'll take a swing at it. Yes, something is off with Zach, and I think you know what is is...the guy just doesn't play any defense and. last night at least, turns the ball over too much. I don't think anyone has mentioned his 7 turnovers last night.
The "it doesn't matter if you get outscored almost every game when you're on the court as long as you score a lot of points" crowd is going to scoff at this, but Zach is having one of the most bizarre seasons in the history of the NBA. There are very few players I enjoy watching play offensive basketball than Zach LaVine...he is an extraordinary scorer inside and out. And I always cheer for him because he seems like a terrific guy...Billy Donavan says he is even a better person than he is player, and I believe this.
But it's almost impossible to ignore his negative impact on the court. Despite his outstanding scoring that has deservedly won him a spot in the all-star game, the Bulls are 8.5 points worse this season when Zach is on the court than when he is off...EIGHT POINT FIVE! (and 1100 minutes is no small sample size, especially when these stats seem to be repeated by Zach every season). Cleaning the Glass reports that Zach's on/off performance adds up to 22 fewer wins...22! And the answer jumps off the page ...defense. Bulls' opponents score an unbelievable 15.6 more points per 100 possessions when Zach is waving his matador's cape on the court than when he is off! To put these numbers in perspective, let's compare them to the Wolves' best player...KAT. The Wolves are 12.2 points better when KAT is on the court compared to off, and Cleaning the Glass attributes 27 more wins to KAT.
The Bulls are a much better team than the Wolves this year (although I would argue the gap is beginning to close as KAT gets back to normal), and the casual NBA fan will say it's because of Zach. But I would argue that the Bulls have done what Gersson Rosas has failed to do...assembled a roster chock full of true 2-way players compared to the Wolves' collection of primarily one-way players. Guys like Temple, Young, Satoransky and Valentine were terrific last night, and while they don't have any of Zach's offensive flash, have been consistently plus players all season. The Wolves are not going to be contenders until they can develop some true 2-way depth like the Bulls have. And I'll keep cheering for Zach to figure it out on the defensive end...if he can ever become a plus defender (and he certainly has the size and athleticism to get there), he could even find himself in the MVP discussion, because his offense is that good and continues to get better.
FNG, where did you got that number -8.5? I was looking basketball reference and there Zach has -5.9 on-off.
I think Zach's on-off numbers are bad this year mainly because Bulls have played majority of the season super young starting five. From all their starters, Zach at 25 is oldest and has by far best on-off numbers. Lauri is 23 and has -12.3 on-off, Carter is 21 and has -13.2, White is 20 and -12.2 and Williams 19 and -8.4.
Correspondingly Chicago bench contains mainly veterans and they all have had much better on-off numbers. So I think if Zach wouldn't have played majority of minutes this year with really inexperienced teammates, he would actually already had pretty decent net rating.
I'm not FNG but he got it from cleaningtheglass.com it eliminates garbage time and end of quarter heaves when they do their analysis
You are correct, sir!
And mikkeman is correct. The Bulls play backwards, with their veteran 2-way players bailing out their young starters night after night. Their starters are much more entertaining, but the reserves win for them, so Zach would and does register better playing with the reserves. It should be noted though that Zach's defensive measures are the worst on the team and maybe the league. The other starters are negative on defense also, but not nearly as much as Zach...and their numbers are punished by being on the court so much with Zach.
It's true that Ant needs to keep trying to get all the way to the basket, but when he's taken that to an extreme, as was the case earlier in the season, he would force up shots that were easily blocked or deterred at the rim or he'd take off too early for a dunk and come up two feet short.
The reality is that good defenses are going to play a lot of drop coverage on Ant and he is going to have to develop the mid-range stop and pop jumper and floater game at some point. All great scorers have this in their tool kit: Durant, Irving, Beal, etc. But right now he looks extremely awkward and throws up some real bricks when he is having to get shots off from those distances.
I do think it's good that his rebounding and assist numbers are trending in the right direction. But ultimately, he simply has to make a higher percentage of his shots. He uses so many effing possessions for such an inefficient player. No one in the league with such poor accuracy gets as many cracks at it that he does.
At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
Mikkeman wrote:At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
He and Towns must have been in some of the same "how to speak to the media" seminars while youngsters with the Wolves.
Mikkeman wrote:At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
He and Towns must have been in some of the same "how to speak to the media" seminars while youngsters with the Wolves.
Ha, exactly! Haven't we heard this same malarkey from DLO!?
(hat tip to Joe Biden for bringing "malarkey" back into the contemporary lexicon after a few decades collecting dust in the attic of words).
Mikkeman wrote:At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
He and Towns must have been in some of the same "how to speak to the media" seminars while youngsters with the Wolves.
Ha, exactly! Haven't we heard this same malarkey from DLO!?
(hat tip to Joe Biden for bringing "malarkey" back into the contemporary lexicon after a few decades collecting dust in the attic of words).
I know Cool doesn't agree with his politics... but I feel like he'd be a fan of the term "malarkey" if anybody else but Biden brought it back.
Mikkeman wrote:At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
And if I get better looking and win $10 million in the lottery, Margot Robbie is going to be drooling over me!
Like I said, mikkeman, I like Zach a lot and greatly admire his scoring and shooting. And I'll always cheer for him because he is fun to watch and one of the good guys in the league. But his words aside, I don't see any improvement in his defense. In fact, my eye test ranks him a little worse than I saw him in his days with the Wolves, and I think some stats might back that up. Giving up 15.8 more points per 100 possessions when he is on the court compared to off boggles the mind...especially when the next worse performance on the Bulls is Wendell Carter at 5.8 per 100!
Mikkeman wrote:At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
He and Towns must have been in some of the same "how to speak to the media" seminars while youngsters with the Wolves.
Ha, exactly! Haven't we heard this same malarkey from DLO!?
(hat tip to Joe Biden for bringing "malarkey" back into the contemporary lexicon after a few decades collecting dust in the attic of words).
I know Cool doesn't agree with his politics... but I feel like he'd be a fan of the term "malarkey" if anybody else but Biden brought it back.
May be we can find a happy medium and bring back the term "hogwash!".
Mikkeman wrote:At least Zach believes he can improve his defence. This is taken from interview after he was selected to all star team: "Obviously, if we continue to play the right way and I'm playing at a high level, I can see myself as All-NBA team. If I continue to up my defense and being consistent, I can see myself as an All-Defensive team guy."
He and Towns must have been in some of the same "how to speak to the media" seminars while youngsters with the Wolves.
Ha, exactly! Haven't we heard this same malarkey from DLO!?
(hat tip to Joe Biden for bringing "malarkey" back into the contemporary lexicon after a few decades collecting dust in the attic of words).
I know Cool doesn't agree with his politics... but I feel like he'd be a fan of the term "malarkey" if anybody else but Biden brought it back.
I suspect Cool is deeply conflicted on this one, but his disdain for the prez may Trump (pardon me) his love of the English language in this case!
I gotta admit that when Biden put the big banner on his campaign bus "The No Malarkey Tour", I saw the under 40 vote running for the exits! I remember thinking "what are you...100 years old?". He might as well have been campaigning on ending Prohibition!
