CoolBreeze44 wrote:After watching both Simmons and Ingram this weekend, I'm not sure there's a blue chip player in this draft. I'm sure someone will turn out to be very good, but it looks like this draft is really going to be a crapshoot. Our scouts really need to do their job this year. And I would definitely consider a trade after we see our position.
Simmons had a 17 pt, 11 reb, 4 ast, 7 stl game this weekend and it's being talked about as a disappointment from most people. It was a little disappointing, but that's because of how talented the guy is. He didn't even play well and was still arguably the best player on the floor.
He's a talent, but there are a lot more questions about him today, then there were at the beginning of the year.
That tends to happen to a lot of phenomenal prospects that get insane amounts of hype from the very beginning. It happened to Wiggins. It happened to Okafor. It's happened to Simmons. It'll happen to some kid next year too.
I agree with this. The top rated players coming in have their game over analyzed. Simmons is a great prospect and would be a good get. I'd be shocked if we landed the first pick again, but it's possible.
If we do get the first pick, then we should pick the best player and let the rest sort itself out. If a great trade offer presents itself, then consider it, but don't worry about fit and just get the best player. Bowie was picked over Jordan because of fit. Talent fits or it gives you great trade possibilities.
I'll just point out that the issues and weaknesses pointed out with Okafor and Wiggins have turned out to be true. That's not to say neither will be great players, but a lot of the concerns voiced turned out to be legitimate.
As for my position on Simmons, I am NOT suggesting we bypass him if we get the #1 pick. What I am suggesting is picking him and then shopping him. My guess is that we get some pretty compelling offers.
I guess what I'm saying is that Simmons' defense is good or at least passable when he gives effort, which is most of the time, but when he doesn't give effort it's because he's saving himself for offense because his team really needs him to be that guy or else they just don't have any chance.
He should have plenty of energy. He doesn't go to class and only plays 2 games per week. His own program won't even allow him to be up for the Wooden award. You at least have to question what's going on there.
I didn't say someone should draft the kid for his academic prowess. The larger issue is the NBA's one-and-done rule being laughable, but that's for another day. Should he be more focused on his studies? You would like him to be. That'd be ideal for anyone his age. He is technically a student athlete, but him not giving effort to his education isn't a glaring red flag for me. It tells me he hates school. Good thing he loves basketball because that's his career choice and he's pretty talented at it.
If we get the number one pick, i'd probably advocate taking him. It's just not going to be a slam dunk pick like KAT was. There are question marks to consider, and i'm a big character guy. The reason KAT is so compelling is he's the total package: talent, attitude, intelligence, good teammate, work ethic. Simmons doesn't have all that.
I can assure you that Karl-Anthony Towns is a very special No. 1 overall pick. I argued hard enough in his favor last year that it should be known that I'm a huge supporter. He has all you said and more, without a doubt.
Simmons isn't the prospect Towns was. And for clarification purposes, I have to say that I've been saying Ingram > Simmons since the start of the season, but I still really like Simmons. The only aspect that you listed that isn't a certainty is attitude because we don't know how he is off the court. We just have no way to know that. I do think he has all the other ones, though. Talent? Check. Intelligence? Check (on court, he absolutely does). Good teammate? Check. Work ethic? I don't think it's possible to get that good at something and not be a hard worker. So, check.
My biggest question about him has always been about his jumper. That's the main reason why I have Ingram ahead of him.
Let me conclude my side of this by saying that's not the only question being asked about him today.
I have real doubts we can trade a Simmons for a player or players that makes sense. I would certainly listen to offers but you do that anyway it's your job if you are running the team. This team does need help defensively but unlike in the past the core players aren't hampered too much physically from making the leap in the future. Sure some guys aren't strong enough yet but they have the length and athletic ability plus will grow into their bodies some. It's not like Al and Love where they really were question marks together. Q says all the time how coaching has a significant quick impact on the defensive end. Name the last coach of any kind that was known for defense that was in this organization. That's been part of the problem. It isn't a complete solution and we likely need to add at least 1 above average defender to this team to become a contender but I don't know if we need to hit the panic button on that end quite yet.
Camden0916 wrote:I think Simmons' defense is getting overblown. I could understand the issue if he was playing on a team with more talent like Kentucky, but he's the entire offense for LSU. He's doing practically everything on that end while playing OK defense on the other end from what I've seen, though I've already said that he's prone to taking a break from time to time, which doesn't necessarily look good. I wonder if his defensive effort would be higher if he was playing next to more talent offensively that could give him relief. I think that's a fair question.
I just have to ask what games you have been watching because I've watched him 4 times now and every game has been LSU getting torched at the rim while he's just watching. I have yet to see just ok defense from him for large chunks of a game and frankly they'd win more games if he was exerting more of his energy on the defensive side of the ball because they can't stop anybody. I think he's a great offensive talent, but you really shouldn't have your hopes up for him defensively. He's a watcher, not a stopper.
khans2k5 wrote:Ben Simmons for Isaiah Thomas, Crowder and Olynyk. Who says no?
I think we do, but man that would be a good haul. Problem is it is not just Simmons for those 3. It is also what you can do with the extra 10M or so in cap space.
Camden wrote:I'd argue that team defense is much more of a weakness than three-point shooting right now. Yes, we're close to the bottom of the league in 3P-shooting, but I think you can improve upon that with a better offensive system, a coach that promotes 3P shooting and some free agent signings (Bazemore is a guy I'd really like here). Defensively, we just don't even have the personnel. You can't be a good defensive team without a suitable supply of bigs. Towns is going to get there. Dieng is meh. Outside of those two, we don't have anyone.
I agree this but I think it is not good enough reason to draft big with good defensive potential. It's pretty rare that any big men will have tremendous effect on defense in couple of their first seasons. So I would rather try to find good defensive big from free agent market than draft one. Mahinmi, Biyombo, Sullinger and Pachulia are all free agents next summer and they would probably have bigger effect for our defense than any rookie.
But it is very well possible that some rookie can have tremendous positive effect for our three point shooting. For example Klay Thompson and Curry were both elite three point shooters already during their rookie seasons.
khans2k5 wrote:Ben Simmons for Isaiah Thomas, Crowder and Olynyk. Who says no?
I would offer Simmons for Crowder and their highest pick (from Nets) if it would end up lower than our pick.
I would want something else from them. Simmons is more than a Crowder step up from everyone but Ingram in this draft. I'd wait to see who's at that pick and either draft Dunn and ask for Olynyk or draft Poeltl and ask for Thomas.
