Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

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kekgeek
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by kekgeek »

KiwiMatt wrote:Year after year we hear rumours of teams willing to trade high draft picks for established stars but never seems to happen. You could argue the Wiggins for Love deal, but that happened after summer league and was an anomaly.

Agree but to be fair had to be done after summer league the cavs were not allowed to trade him until then

Plus the teams with early draft picks are not in the position to contend for a championship so they don't need to trade for a star. The Cavs were interesting because love was the last piece. KG was the last piece for the Celtics. They lakers believe because they are LA they can rebuild fast like they have all there history
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Monster
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by Monster »

kekgeek1 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:If I was the Bulls I wouldn't accept anything but a ridiculous grandfather offer for Butler. He may not be a superstar but he is a very good 2-way player locked up for the next few years at what will seem like a bargain contract in a few weeks. Should they rebuild? Yes don't resign the old guys sign some younger players and build with what they have. There is some young talent there. It was literally days ago many had Billy Donovan as not up to the task and now he is a win away from coaching in an NBA finals. Maybe Hoiberg with a younger roster and the right signings ends up being a good coach after all. The Bulls might be in some sort of no man's land but I think it makes slot of sense to see what Butler and the roster they surround him with can do next year. Assuming he can stay healthy his value is gonna stay pretty high.


The thing is here is where the NBA is a little broken. I think Jimmy butler is Damn good. But here is the thing is he to good for where the Bulls are at. That is weird I know but are they going to be stuck in the late lottery or low playoff team slot with him on the team really hindering the Bulls chances to get back to championship level. If they do the Cam proposed trade they add Russell, ingram. Will be bad next year add another top 5 pick in a projected better class they might be in business. But they are also a big market so maybe the can get big free agents.

Just a question who would you rather be in ranking order the Sixers lakers or the Bulls


Cam's deal would be a pretty good offer and I would agree they should take that one. If I was Chicago unless someone blew me away with an offer (maybe someone does) I want to see what my handpicked coach can do with some of the young players that actually do fit what he wants to do in Portis McDermott etc. they could end up with a nice player with their pick this year you never know.

As it's been mentioned these really good players for picks don't happen that often partly because you still have to work under the current salary cap. That gets tricky unless you happen to have the right contracts. That probably wouldn't be a problem for a team like the Lakers who have a bevy of expiring type guys.

I'd probably go:

Lakers





Chicago
Sixers

Ok ok the gap there is probably a bit of a hyperbole but I like the Lakers talent and chances quite a bit more.

Sure the Sixers have lots of talent etc blah blah picks whatever the process has brought all those things but the reality I see is right now they have nobody that actually has shown to be a top level player or even the level of Jimmy Butler. They have a TON of assets (and cap space) to make moves though (Celtics are loaded up to make a move and they have Thomas who IMO is better than anyone the Sixers have) and that's going to help. I think the Bulls have some young talent and they could move a guy like Gibson for a pick or something moderately valuable at some point. All of these teams have gotta get lucky or lure a really good FA at some point. The Lakers have an edge there too.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

Here's how calls to Chicago will go.

"Hey, this is Thibs."

*audible click*

I don't think you guys realize how much they hate Thibs. They aren't a potential trade partner for anything that will involve negotiating because they aren't going to work with a guy they hate.
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MikkeMan
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by MikkeMan »

JasonIsDaMan wrote:
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Rumors Noah wants to leave Bulls. Not surprising. Would be a good fit here. If he could get mostly or even partway back to old form, he'd be a good pickup, IMO.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242018/Joakim-Noah-Telling-Teammates-Hes-Leaving-Bulls-Doesnt-Trust-Front-Office


Would be a GREAT fit in MIN. Don't overpay, save the biggest deal for Gasol, but great fit.


Why you would want Noah even tough his PER splits are pretty awful (-3.3) and it seems that his game is diminishing rapidly. Last year he still had -0.5 PER splits and year before that +5.9. It is not probable that he would be able to turn that trend. In top of that he is injury prone.
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TRKO [enjin:12664595]
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by TRKO [enjin:12664595] »

Camden0916 wrote:If I'm Chicago (Gar Forman and John Paxson), and Los Angeles (Mitch Kupchak) offers me their pick (No. 2 overall) and Julius Randle for Jimmy Butler, I say, "Done deal. Let's sign the paperwork." I wouldn't even hesitate on Chicago's side, and I doubt LA, who's known for quick rebuilds, would be against that deal either.

Edit: Or replace Julius Randle with D'Angelo Russell considering Chicago has Bobby Portis to groom and they have no future in the backcourt.

The Lakers want to contend now since they will owe the 76ers their pick. Drafting a rookie means they probably won't compete again next year. I don't think Butler puts them in immediate contention either, but they will sign a bunch of guys in the offseason. Chicago doesn't have to trade Butler, but if the Lakers offer anything like you proposed they should take it.
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MikkeMan
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by MikkeMan »

JasonIsDaMan wrote:
Mikkeman wrote:
He played as well also in regular season while Valanciunas was injured. Biyombo averaged 7.2 pts, 12.2 rbs and 2.0 blocks in less than 30 minutes as a starter. But most important is that Raptors were playing just as well with Biyombo and without Valanciunas than they played with Valanciunas as starter and Biyombo as his backup. Their record with Biyombo as starter was 15-7.


Not a great point. What was the average record of the teams they played those 22 games? Did they play Lowry, Derozan, and the rest of their good players extra minutes to make up for the loss? If he was such a great starter, why is he playing less than 30 minutes a game? 7/12/2?!?!?! That is Ben Wallace numbers. Is he a Ben Wallace level defender? For 110 games, not 2 or 22?

And last but not least: If they do sign him for 20 EFFIN' MILLION A SEASON and it doesn't work, what are you going to do? Pay his salary? Are you even going to admit it and apologize, or are you going act like it wasn't you who said it would be great?


Average record of their opponents with Biyombo as starter was better than 41 wins. 12 opponents had better than .500 record. So their good record while Valanciunas was out was not because of weak schedule. He averaged just 29.8 minutes mainly because he is still little foul prone. Had 6 fouls in one game and 4 fouls in 9 games. As Long already wrote his per 36 minutes averages as starter are not that different compared his numbers from bench.

Interesting that you compared him to Ben Wallace. Another player that would not have been ever great if you look just PER splits but since he was such a tremendous defender, his impact for team defense made him all star level player. Here is their career stats comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=biyombi01&p2=wallabe01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=Biyombo vs Ben Wallace

Their per 36 minutes stats are almost identical in points, rebounds and blocks. Wallace was better in steals and assists but Biyombo is not as bad free throw shooter than Wallace was.

Here is another comparison. It's Biyombo's this year compared to Wallace's first year in Detroit. Still pretty good comparison. Wallace was still better in assists and steals but Biyombo is not as bad scorer than Wallace was.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=biyombi01&y1=2016&p2=wallabe01&y2=2001&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=Biyombo vs Ben Wallace

In this comparison we should remember that we are comparing 23 year old Biyombo to 26 year old Wallace. So if Biyombo continues improving he should be clearly better than Wallace was in same age. He might not yet be Ben Wallace level defender but neither was Ben Wallace at age 23. Biyombo has however shown dramatic improvement in that are during last couple of years, so I wouldn't be surprised if he would end pretty close same level defender than Wallace was. His DRPM has improved in last two seasons from -0.11 to 1.58 and this season to 3.29 that ranks already top10 among all centers.

Finally I have not suggested that Wolves or any other team should sign him to 20 million (or close to that) dollars per year deal. I'm just telling that because of his improved play during this season, some team will definitely do it and I'm sure that it won't be the worst contract that will be signed this summer.
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Monster
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by Monster »

Mikkeman wrote:
JasonIsDaMan wrote:
Mikkeman wrote:
He played as well also in regular season while Valanciunas was injured. Biyombo averaged 7.2 pts, 12.2 rbs and 2.0 blocks in less than 30 minutes as a starter. But most important is that Raptors were playing just as well with Biyombo and without Valanciunas than they played with Valanciunas as starter and Biyombo as his backup. Their record with Biyombo as starter was 15-7.


Not a great point. What was the average record of the teams they played those 22 games? Did they play Lowry, Derozan, and the rest of their good players extra minutes to make up for the loss? If he was such a great starter, why is he playing less than 30 minutes a game? 7/12/2?!?!?! That is Ben Wallace numbers. Is he a Ben Wallace level defender? For 110 games, not 2 or 22?

And last but not least: If they do sign him for 20 EFFIN' MILLION A SEASON and it doesn't work, what are you going to do? Pay his salary? Are you even going to admit it and apologize, or are you going act like it wasn't you who said it would be great?


Average record of their opponents with Biyombo as starter was better than 41 wins. 12 opponents had better than .500 record. So their good record while Valanciunas was out was not because of weak schedule. He averaged just 29.8 minutes mainly because he is still little foul prone. Had 6 fouls in one game and 4 fouls in 9 games. As Long already wrote his per 36 minutes averages as starter are not that different compared his numbers from bench.

Interesting that you compared him to Ben Wallace. Another player that would not have been ever great if you look just PER splits but since he was such a tremendous defender, his impact for team defense made him all star level player. Here is their career stats comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=biyombi01&p2=wallabe01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=Biyombo vs Ben Wallace

Their per 36 minutes stats are almost identical in points, rebounds and blocks. Wallace was better in steals and assists but Biyombo is not as bad free throw shooter than Wallace was.

Here is another comparison. It's Biyombo's this year compared to Wallace's first year in Detroit. Still pretty good comparison. Wallace was still better in assists and steals but Biyombo is not as bad scorer than Wallace was.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=biyombi01&y1=2016&p2=wallabe01&y2=2001&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=Biyombo vs Ben Wallace

In this comparison we should remember that we are comparing 23 year old Biyombo to 26 year old Wallace. So if Biyombo continues improving he should be clearly better than Wallace was in same age. He might not yet be Ben Wallace level defender but neither was Ben Wallace at age 23. Biyombo has however shown dramatic improvement in that are during last couple of years, so I wouldn't be surprised if he would end pretty close same level defender than Wallace was. His DRPM has improved in last two seasons from -0.11 to 1.58 and this season to 3.29 that ranks already top10 among all centers.

Finally I have not suggested that Wolves or any other team should sign him to 20 million (or close to that) dollars per year deal. I'm just telling that because of his improved play during this season, some team will definitely do it and I'm sure that it won't be the worst contract that will be signed this summer.


To me this post reads that Biyombo is gonna be as good or better than Ben Wallace which I'm not sure it was your intent. I assume it's more for a comparison of where Biyombo COULD get to but that's a really good outlook. If that played out 20 million would be a bargain as Ben Wallace was one of the best defensive players I have seen in my lifetime (he could switch off on almost anyone and make their life difficult) and was as close as I may ever see to being a superstar that never scored 10ppg. Just sayin. :)
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MikkeMan
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by MikkeMan »

Camden wrote:Throwing out another off-season plan that I hope to be realistic, though somewhat video game-esque. It'll be a tight squeeze monetarily, but depending on how the salaries are worked out, I do think it's all doable.

- 2016-17 salary cap is set to be at $92M. Minnesota is looking at $63.6M in contracts on the roster before any moves have been made.

- Assuming Brandon Ingram, Ben Simmons, and Jamal Murray are off the board by the time the Wolves pick at No. 5 overall, trade back to a PG-needy team, such as Sacramento (No. 8 overall) or Milwaukee (No. 10 overall) with the goal in mind of landing PF Domontas Sabonis and a future first-round pick (2018 from SAC; 2017 or 2018 from MIL).

- Allow PF Kevin Garnett, SF Tayshaun Prince and C Greg Smith to leave via retirement or free agency, respectively. Hopefully none of these players will be back next season.

- Decline SF/PF Damjan Rudez team option for $1.2M.

- Sign former All-Star Luol Deng (age 31) to a three-year, $39M deal to start at PF next to C Karl-Anthony Towns while also logging significant minutes at SF next to Andrew Wiggins, Zach LaVine, and Shabazz Muhammad. Back in December of 2015, Deng said, "I think I'm best at the 4." In today's NBA, and where he's at in his career, I totally agree with him. Not to mention he played 73% of his minutes at PF in 2015-16. He also posted 15.2 PPG, 8.1 RPG with a .561 TS% post-All Star break and a +/- of +7.1, and then had a fantastic post-season run. There's still juice left in the tank.

- Sign Matthew Dellavedova (age 25) to a three-year, $18M deal to be the primary backup PG behind Ricky Rubio. He's also capable of playing off-ball with Rubio at times. Back-to-back seasons shooting 40% or better from 3P-range. Solid AST/TO ratio over the last two years. Very pesky defender. Some stats would illustrate that the Cavs were actually better with Delly on the court rather than Irving. I wouldn't go that far from a basketball sense, but he knows his role and plays it as well as it can be played. Ironically, this would be Tom Thibodeau's new Kirk Hinrich chess piece, if you will.

- Sign veteran SF/PF James Johnson (age 29) to a two-year, $6M deal. Underutilized in his last two stints (Memphis; Toronto). His teams were better with him on the court, though his playing time was scant. Adds energy, toughness, solid defense, and the potential to score in bunches occasionally to a bench unit that sorely needs all of that.

PG: R. Rubio / M. Dellavedova / T. Jones
SG: Z. LaVine / (combination of players)
SF: A. Wiggins / S. Muhammad
PF: L. Deng / J. Johnson / D. Sabonis / N. Bjelica / A. Payne
C: K. Towns / G. Dieng / N. Pekovic


I like most of this plan. I would do just couple of changes. I would rather sign some cheap big instead of James Johnson. My reasoning is that I still believe that Bjelica can be good player for Wolves and Johnson would not be needed if Bjelica plays better. But if Pekovic is once again injured, we need third center.

I would also use Deng as starting small forward even tough I would play in the end of games when many teams use smaller lineups exactly same lineup than your starting lineup is. My reasons for using bigger starting lineup and bringing Lavine from bench is that I would like to have Deng guarding opponents best wing so that Wiggins could save his energy to offensive end. If Deng would start as power forward, he could not guard best wing player in Wolves team since he should guard opponents power forward since neither Wiggins or Lavine has enough size for that. In Miami team, Deng could start as power forward and still guard often opponents best wing since he was starting next to JJ who is 6'8 and weights 240lbs.
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MikkeMan
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by MikkeMan »

monsterpile wrote:
To me this post reads that Biyombo is gonna be as good or better than Ben Wallace which I'm not sure it was your intent. I assume it's more for a comparison of where Biyombo COULD get to but that's a really good outlook. If that played out 20 million would be a bargain as Ben Wallace was one of the best defensive players I have seen in my lifetime (he could switch off on almost anyone and make their life difficult) and was as close as I may ever see to being a superstar that never scored 10ppg. Just sayin. :)


Yes, I probably chose my words little carelessly in comparison to Ben Wallace. I meant that Biyombo has plenty of potential and time to get same level than Wallace was. He is also already productive, so when some team signs him to big contract it is not just based on what he could potentially be but also what he already is.

I personally think that Biyombo won't ever be as good rebounder than Wallace was in his prime. But he will be probably clearly better offensive player. I can see him developing similar offensive game than DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler. Since he has also been slowly improving his free throw shooting, he might be even playable in the end of games.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Official 2016 Offseasont Thread (Free Agents/Trades/Front Office Moves)

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

[

Monster, I don't know that it is preposterous to suggest Biyombo could approach Wallace as a player. Here are their comparative stats at age 23:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=biyombi01&y2=1998&p2=wallabe01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Biyombo is better in almost every category...scoring, shooting, rebounding and blocks. Now, Biyombo had more NBA experience at 23 than Wallace, so let's compare the two in their respective 5th seasons:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?
request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=biyombi01&y2=2001&p2=wallabe01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Even though Wallace is three years older in this comparison, the stats are comparable with Biyombo looking a little better.

Shot-blocking and altering centers are a rare breed in the NBA...that's why Biyombo is going to get paid big next year.
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