khans2k5 wrote:Taylor being cheap did cost us in the '09 draft when he refused to pay for Rambis' buyout so Kahn made half a dozen trades back to cover the buyout cost. We traded a couple good players for other picks and cash along the way.
Um...I think you may have mistyped the year. Lol
I guess the year doesn't really matter. Whatever year it happened it happened because Taylor wouldn't pay for it and told Kahn he had to so selling picks for worse picks and cash is how he covered the cost of his own mistake.
mrhockey89 wrote:My top 5 draft wish list, in order:
1. Brandon Ingram- Has a lot of Kevin Durant in him, this guy has future all-star written all over him. He can get a shot from anywhere, high release point, and I'd salivate at adding him to what we already have (we'd make it fit).
2. Ben Simmons- Very, very talented player who has ridiculous upside. I do have a big flag with him that wonders if he's the next Lamar Odom..a guy with talent to dominate but instead ends up being just pretty good and the occasional all-star.
3. Kris Dunn- I'm as big of a Rubio believer as there is. I just believe Dunn's the next best talent in the draft, and a pretty elite one. I'm tempted to put him above Simmons because I think he's got a better competitive fire under him. Great skill set, plus defender. Watching him reminds me of some sort of mix between Derrick Rose, Eric Bledsoe, and Chris Paul. I saw nbadraft.net has his comparison as Jordan Clarkson, which I think is a bit weak.
4. Buddy Hield- I've been singing his praises for a while. I think he can be a solid defender, he's got unlimited range, can get to the rim, is a tireless worker, plays to his strengths when it comes to shooting, and dominated in the limelight so much that he was commanding double teams instantly when he'd touch the ball. Reminds me a bit of Steph Curry in college (remember the game where a team actually dedicated two defenders to Curry even when he didn't have the ball, so he went to the corner and left it a 4 vs 3 for his teammates all game?) from the confidence in his game and shot. He also was making plays when he was getting double teamed, which means he's not pressured easily into mistakes.
5. Jamal Murray- He's my equivalent to me to the guard version of Justise Winslow, who I also like(d). Great feel for the game, has good range, a lot of upside, looks very smooth, and could be a bit of a Shawn Marion (poor man's) for our team. Not sure I ever see him being an alpha leader, but could see him being a strong support starter.
That seems to be in line with what most of the board wants. I doubt a top 2 pick is available for trade to anyone right now so i've just been focusing on the next 5-6 players. I'm really high on Dunn myself, as I agree that he has the best two-way and star potential of the next 3. The board does seem split among hield and murray, and as a hield before murray guy im interested in hearing a good murray over hield argument. It may have been gone over earlier in this thread, but i don't want to dig through 140 pages
khans2k5 wrote:Taylor being cheap did cost us in the '09 draft when he refused to pay for Rambis' buyout so Kahn made half a dozen trades back to cover the buyout cost. We traded a couple good players for other picks and cash along the way.
Um...I think you may have mistyped the year. Lol
I guess the year doesn't really matter. Whatever year it happened it happened because Taylor wouldn't pay for it and told Kahn he had to so selling picks for worse picks and cash is how he covered the cost of his own mistake.
I was just giving you a hard time. :)
I think you meant 2011. I think the real bottom line on that draft had a lot more to do with the roster (was young and they wanted to compete) and the ineptitude of Kahn than saving/making money to cover for Rambis salary which is a narrative I've never really bought into. They picked Malcolm Lee who they said they had a first round grade in the 2nd round (everyone says stuff like that though right? Lol) so they did get another guy. Remember that was the year they also drafted that guy that was too old to be drafted. Ineptitude. I think that's pretty well established for Kahn at this point. I get where the cheap narrative for Glen comes from and to be honest it's a fair critic. I haven't totally bought into that thought but that's my opinion.
Regardless I think we can move on (it's rare franchises can have this level of positive new era) and have some level of hope that Glen is on a new track. I think most everyone is still surprised at the way he moved on and made the move spending some pretty decent cash to get Thibs (he spent for Adelman too) and It was clear he wasn't messing around. I don't think Thibs and Layden are gonna be going cheap. Thibs seems like a guy that's going to looking for any way he can upgrade the roster and Layden spent most of his career working for very good franchises he is a career basketball guy. If there is a player worth spending some money on a pick it think the likeliness is pretty high it's gonna happen but that's just me.
Future I'm a Murray over Buddy and (Dunn) so I'll offer up my perspective as I don't think Murray over Buddy has been specifically discussed for a while.
To me the thing that makes me consider Murray over Buddy is potential in 2 ways. First of all Murray put up 20ppg as a freshman. That's not bad at all you wonder what he would do even next year much less his Junior year. Of course not everyone builds on early success. His ball handing and passing I think at the very least project to be better than Buddy. He gets knocked for not being a good defender and maybe he won't but he was a young freshman.
Potential to have position flexibility and possibly being able to play PG full-time. I see Buddy as SG maybe a guy that can be a not screw things up too bad if you half to put him at PG type. Murray on the other hand I watched him last summer in that international tourney look pretty good. Sure the competition wasn't amazing but we were talking an 18 year old kid playing against slot of grown men and tearing it up playing with the ball in his hands making teammates look good. This year he played off the ball next to maybe the best all around College PG in Ullis so he didn't get to show off that creative ball handling ability a lot and when he did maybe it didn't go well. I still think there is some creative and playmaking ability there.
The 3 guards Murray, Buddy and Dunn have contrasting and parallel strengths and weaknesses it's both fun and somewhat maddening to compare them. At this point I've changed my position a little and I will be happy if we get any of them. I'm still open to other options but they are good ones.
Thanks for that, monster. You made me take a more thorough look at Murray, and I am on board. The only downside is he may not make much of a contribution next year, but if Thibs & company decide he's got the most talent at #5, then go for it.
At #5 we are guaranteed a shot at Murray, Dunn or Hield. That's a pretty good position to be in!
60WinTim wrote:Thanks for that, monster. You made you take a more thorough look at Murray, and I am on board. The only downside is he may not make much of a contribution next year, but if Thibs & company decide he's got the most talent at #5, then go for it.
At #5 we are guaranteed a shot at Murray, Dunn or Hield. That's a pretty good position to be in!
He is the youngest so yeah He will be the least ready to help especially since he will be the least prepared defensively physically and with less experience. However if you read up on his write up on DX the guy was elite at coming off screens knocking down shots. It's possible the guy could help right away as a shooter. Think about all the UK guys that didn't get to show all their skills the last few years especially last year...(Booker Towns Lyles) And how they have showed a lot more at the next level. That should at least be considered some when it comes to Murray.
Comparing young players to players that have come before can be on a spectrum of helpful to silly but I see Buddy as a reasonable high side upside of a player like Michael Redd. That dude wasn't a premiere athlete and wasn't a great ball handler or defender but the dude could shoot and did enough otherwise to put up some serious scoring. If Buddy could become something in that neighborhood that would be a heck of a player. It's a shame Redd's career ended the way it did with a litany of injuries.
monsterpile wrote:Comparing young players to players that have come before can be on a spectrum of helpful to silly but I see Buddy as a reasonable high side upside of a player like Michael Redd. That dude wasn't a premiere athlete and wasn't a great ball handler or defender but the dude could shoot and did enough otherwise to put up some serious scoring. If Buddy could become something in that neighborhood that would be a heck of a player. It's a shame Redd's career ended the way it did with a litany of injuries.
TRKO wrote:The thing I don't like about Chriss is his rebounding. Rebounding and turnovers are huge keys in winning games. With Wiggins already a weak rebounder we need a big who can rebound exceptionally well. That's why I like both Davis and Sabonis more in trade downs. Chriss has big time potential though. Very intruiging prospect.
My thought process is to sit at 5 and pick Dunn, Bender, or Heild. I'm concerned about Murray's lack of length to go along with his average/below average lack of athleticism. He does have great offensive skills though. To me Heild brings the same offensive skills, but is more athletic and longer. Dunn has massive defensive potential and Bender is a big with great potential also. I think our goal should be to build a defensive juggernaut. Defense is usually more consistent than offense.
His rebounding is a huge red flag. Not sure if that is something that can be corrected. I almost thing we need a strong rebounder then anything to put next to Towns. That is why I like Sabonis, but Chriss has the tools to be something special. It is just deciding if you can coach it out of him or not.
TRKO wrote:The thing I don't like about Chriss is his rebounding. Rebounding and turnovers are huge keys in winning games. With Wiggins already a weak rebounder we need a big who can rebound exceptionally well. That's why I like both Davis and Sabonis more in trade downs. Chriss has big time potential though. Very intruiging prospect.
My thought process is to sit at 5 and pick Dunn, Bender, or Heild. I'm concerned about Murray's lack of length to go along with his average/below average lack of athleticism. He does have great offensive skills though. To me Heild brings the same offensive skills, but is more athletic and longer. Dunn has massive defensive potential and Bender is a big with great potential also. I think our goal should be to build a defensive juggernaut. Defense is usually more consistent than offense.
His rebounding is a huge red flag. Not sure if that is something that can be corrected. I almost thing we need a strong rebounder then anything to put next to Towns. That is why I like Sabonis, but Chriss has the tools to be something special. It is just deciding if you can coach it out of him or not.
He does have outstanding tools. I would be excited if we got him in a trade down, but the rebounding is the main reason I'm not pushing for him. Tons of physical ability though.
