We got em: Dunn excitement thread

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I don't think it makes any sense to move Rubio anytime soon.

Dunn hasn't played a minute of NBA ball, so we don't know if he'll ever be better than Rubio, we certainly don't yet. I'm sure Aesop has a fable for this. Don't give away something good until you know for sure you've got something better.

There should be minutes for Dunn at the 1, and it's good to have two (or more?) good PGs. Plus, with Rubio's injury history, it might actually help force Thibs into making the smart move of limiting Rubio's minutes a bit (say, to 32 or 30), which would still leave 16-18 minutes at the point for Dunn.

There should also be minutes for Dunn at the 2, because he has the length to play there for stretches. He shot 37% from three two years in a row. That's not great, but it's not bad either. He could even defend some smaller 3s, which would allow us to put him out there with LaVine for a little more perimeter shooting.

Rubio is still a good player. I'd rank him around 12-15 in the league. Dunn will have to really prove himself before we trade that away.

Trading Rubio soon would also force us to rely on Tyus quite a bit, but that's a really inexperienced backcourt for a team looking to make the playoffs.

Now, in the long run, assuming Dunn pans out as a PG, yes, it might make sense to move Rubio. But I think the hand-wringing about this meaning that Rubio is definitely gone is premature.

As for the rumors that Thibs was looking to trade Rubio, who knows? I think that would have been premature unless we were getting a vet PG in return to steady the point until Dunn and Tyus develop. I'd rather not go that route yet. And besides, who knows how much credence to give these "rumors" anyway. With Thibs and Layden's tight ship, I suspect those who talk don't know, and those who know don't talk. So I don't put much credence into that.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I think the odds they go into next season with both Dunn and Rubio are very low. The fact that they actively shopped Rubio has me believing he'll be traded at some point. I think they want someone to absorb Pek's contract and Rubio is the price.

SP, do we know for a fact that Thibs/Leydon were actively shopping Rubio? Thibs handing the keys to Dunn or Jones as our starting PG seems contrary to everything we know about him...I don't think a team with one of those guys starting next year would be a playoff team. Rubio rumors have been part of our lives since we drafted him, and I guess I haven't heard anything that I would deem reliable. I would like to hear the Wolves say they never shopped Rubio (like Milt had to do last year), but that doesn't seem to be their style. Silence from Thibs in this case tells me nothing.

Yep LST. I wonder if there were teams calling about Rubio because of the "He can't possibly for with Thibs because he doesn't shoot or score" thinking plus it was likely the Wolves were going to get a possible PG either Dunn or Murray (some basketball minds seem to think Murray is a PG) and if you are a team that needs a PG you would at least make some calls.

Then there is this:

Layden speaking with @PAOnTheMic calls Rubio a terrific player and speaking as though RR will stay.

https://twitter.com/apkrawczynski/status/746348565027495936

I'm gonna have to listen to Layden and PA later to see what was said for myself.

Monster, what is he supposed to say? That we have to move Rubio now, or that we don't see Ricky as part of our long term plan? Talk about killing any trade leverage he has. He basically said what he had to.

That is always the go to response to these statements but I would further ask, what is he supposed to say if he really feels that way? Its a no win situation for these guys in charge. The truth will lie in what the team does in the next 3 weeks.

Cool, what do you mean about "killing trade leverage?" Do you mean they killed the leverage for trading Rubio by drafting Dunn?

No, if he indicates that Ricky isn't part of the plan, he effectively makes it more difficult for us to get a top value return. He needs to act like we still value him highly and don't necessarily need to make a move.

Agree with that last sentence, which is what he's saying, and I think it's true that they do value Rubio.

How has he indicated that Ricky isn't part of the plan other than by drafting Dunn? And if drafting Dunn is the only thing that has lowered Rubio's trade value, what was the alternative? I'm not asking to argue, but just to figure out what you would have advocated they do differently.

[Coolbreeze44]

I think the odds they go into next season with both Dunn and Rubio are very low. The fact that they actively shopped Rubio has me believing he'll be traded at some point. I think they want someone to absorb Pek's contract and Rubio is the price.

SP, do we know for a fact that Thibs/Leydon were actively shopping Rubio? Thibs handing the keys to Dunn or Jones as our starting PG seems contrary to everything we know about him...I don't think a team with one of those guys starting next year would be a playoff team. Rubio rumors have been part of our lives since we drafted him, and I guess I haven't heard anything that I would deem reliable. I would like to hear the Wolves say they never shopped Rubio (like Milt had to do last year), but that doesn't seem to be their style. Silence from Thibs in this case tells me nothing.

Yep LST. I wonder if there were teams calling about Rubio because of the "He can't possibly for with Thibs because he doesn't shoot or score" thinking plus it was likely the Wolves were going to get a possible PG either Dunn or Murray (some basketball minds seem to think Murray is a PG) and if you are a team that needs a PG you would at least make some calls.

Then there is this:

Layden speaking with @PAOnTheMic calls Rubio a terrific player and speaking as though RR will stay.

https://twitter.com/apkrawczynski/status/746348565027495936

I'm gonna have to listen to Layden and PA later to see what was said for myself.

Monster, what is he supposed to say? That we have to move Rubio now, or that we don't see Ricky as part of our long term plan? Talk about killing any trade leverage he has. He basically said what he had to.

That is always the go to response to these statements but I would further ask, what is he supposed to say if he really feels that way? Its a no win situation for these guys in charge. The truth will lie in what the team does in the next 3 weeks.

Cool, what do you mean about "killing trade leverage?" Do you mean they killed the leverage for trading Rubio by drafting Dunn?

No, if he indicates that Ricky isn't part of the plan, he effectively makes it more difficult for us to get a top value return. He needs to act like we still value him highly and don't necessarily need to make a move.

Agree with that last sentence, which is what he's saying, and I think it's true that they do value Rubio.

How has he indicated that Ricky isn't part of the plan other than by drafting Dunn? And if drafting Dunn is the only thing that has lowered Rubio's trade value, what was the alternative? I'm not asking to argue, but just to figure out what you would have advocated they do differently.

Drew, I think you're misreading my point. Whether they intend to trade Ricky or not, my point is it makes no sense to broadcast any trade intentions. But suppose privately they've decided to move Ricky. That is the last thing you want potential suitors to know. You maintain full leverage by not showing any desperation to act. So all I was saying in response to Monster was Layden said exactly what he needed to, and that it may not truly reflect the stance of the organization.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I think the odds they go into next season with both Dunn and Rubio are very low. The fact that they actively shopped Rubio has me believing he'll be traded at some point. I think they want someone to absorb Pek's contract and Rubio is the price.

SP, do we know for a fact that Thibs/Leydon were actively shopping Rubio? Thibs handing the keys to Dunn or Jones as our starting PG seems contrary to everything we know about him...I don't think a team with one of those guys starting next year would be a playoff team. Rubio rumors have been part of our lives since we drafted him, and I guess I haven't heard anything that I would deem reliable. I would like to hear the Wolves say they never shopped Rubio (like Milt had to do last year), but that doesn't seem to be their style. Silence from Thibs in this case tells me nothing.

Yep LST. I wonder if there were teams calling about Rubio because of the "He can't possibly for with Thibs because he doesn't shoot or score" thinking plus it was likely the Wolves were going to get a possible PG either Dunn or Murray (some basketball minds seem to think Murray is a PG) and if you are a team that needs a PG you would at least make some calls.

Then there is this:

Layden speaking with @PAOnTheMic calls Rubio a terrific player and speaking as though RR will stay.

https://twitter.com/apkrawczynski/status/746348565027495936

I'm gonna have to listen to Layden and PA later to see what was said for myself.

Monster, what is he supposed to say? That we have to move Rubio now, or that we don't see Ricky as part of our long term plan? Talk about killing any trade leverage he has. He basically said what he had to.

That is always the go to response to these statements but I would further ask, what is he supposed to say if he really feels that way? Its a no win situation for these guys in charge. The truth will lie in what the team does in the next 3 weeks.

Cool, what do you mean about "killing trade leverage?" Do you mean they killed the leverage for trading Rubio by drafting Dunn?

No, if he indicates that Ricky isn't part of the plan, he effectively makes it more difficult for us to get a top value return. He needs to act like we still value him highly and don't necessarily need to make a move.

Agree with that last sentence, which is what he's saying, and I think it's true that they do value Rubio.

How has he indicated that Ricky isn't part of the plan other than by drafting Dunn? And if drafting Dunn is the only thing that has lowered Rubio's trade value, what was the alternative? I'm not asking to argue, but just to figure out what you would have advocated they do differently.

Drew, I think you're misreading my point. Whether they intend to trade Ricky or not, my point is it makes no sense to broadcast any trade intentions. But suppose privately they've decided to move Ricky. That is the last thing you want potential suitors to know. You maintain full leverage by not showing any desperation to act. So all I was saying in response to Monster was Layden said exactly what he needed to, and that it may not truly reflect the stance of the organization.

I agree with everything you are saying. And to clarify one last point, you are not saying Layden and Thibs did make a mistake by broadcasting an intent to trade Ricky, just that it would have been a mistake if they had done so, correct?

[Coolbreeze44]

I think the odds they go into next season with both Dunn and Rubio are very low. The fact that they actively shopped Rubio has me believing he'll be traded at some point. I think they want someone to absorb Pek's contract and Rubio is the price.

SP, do we know for a fact that Thibs/Leydon were actively shopping Rubio? Thibs handing the keys to Dunn or Jones as our starting PG seems contrary to everything we know about him...I don't think a team with one of those guys starting next year would be a playoff team. Rubio rumors have been part of our lives since we drafted him, and I guess I haven't heard anything that I would deem reliable. I would like to hear the Wolves say they never shopped Rubio (like Milt had to do last year), but that doesn't seem to be their style. Silence from Thibs in this case tells me nothing.

Yep LST. I wonder if there were teams calling about Rubio because of the "He can't possibly for with Thibs because he doesn't shoot or score" thinking plus it was likely the Wolves were going to get a possible PG either Dunn or Murray (some basketball minds seem to think Murray is a PG) and if you are a team that needs a PG you would at least make some calls.

Then there is this:

Layden speaking with @PAOnTheMic calls Rubio a terrific player and speaking as though RR will stay.

https://twitter.com/apkrawczynski/status/746348565027495936

I'm gonna have to listen to Layden and PA later to see what was said for myself.

Monster, what is he supposed to say? That we have to move Rubio now, or that we don't see Ricky as part of our long term plan? Talk about killing any trade leverage he has. He basically said what he had to.

That is always the go to response to these statements but I would further ask, what is he supposed to say if he really feels that way? Its a no win situation for these guys in charge. The truth will lie in what the team does in the next 3 weeks.

Cool, what do you mean about "killing trade leverage?" Do you mean they killed the leverage for trading Rubio by drafting Dunn?

No, if he indicates that Ricky isn't part of the plan, he effectively makes it more difficult for us to get a top value return. He needs to act like we still value him highly and don't necessarily need to make a move.

Agree with that last sentence, which is what he's saying, and I think it's true that they do value Rubio.

How has he indicated that Ricky isn't part of the plan other than by drafting Dunn? And if drafting Dunn is the only thing that has lowered Rubio's trade value, what was the alternative? I'm not asking to argue, but just to figure out what you would have advocated they do differently.

Drew, I think you're misreading my point. Whether they intend to trade Ricky or not, my point is it makes no sense to broadcast any trade intentions. But suppose privately they've decided to move Ricky. That is the last thing you want potential suitors to know. You maintain full leverage by not showing any desperation to act. So all I was saying in response to Monster was Layden said exactly what he needed to, and that it may not truly reflect the stance of the organization.

I agree with everything you are saying. And to clarify one last point, you are not saying Layden and Thibs did make a mistake by broadcasting an intent to trade Ricky, just that it would have been a mistake if they had done so, correct?

Exactly. Hold your cards close to the vest regardless of which direction you want to move.

[60WinTim]

If I remember correctly, Dunn made reference to both Ricky, and suprisingly, KG. I wonder if he let something slip out of the bag that Thibs did not intend...

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I think the odds they go into next season with both Dunn and Rubio are very low. The fact that they actively shopped Rubio has me believing he'll be traded at some point. I think they want someone to absorb Pek's contract and Rubio is the price.

SP, do we know for a fact that Thibs/Leydon were actively shopping Rubio? Thibs handing the keys to Dunn or Jones as our starting PG seems contrary to everything we know about him...I don't think a team with one of those guys starting next year would be a playoff team. Rubio rumors have been part of our lives since we drafted him, and I guess I haven't heard anything that I would deem reliable. I would like to hear the Wolves say they never shopped Rubio (like Milt had to do last year), but that doesn't seem to be their style. Silence from Thibs in this case tells me nothing.

Yep LST. I wonder if there were teams calling about Rubio because of the "He can't possibly for with Thibs because he doesn't shoot or score" thinking plus it was likely the Wolves were going to get a possible PG either Dunn or Murray (some basketball minds seem to think Murray is a PG) and if you are a team that needs a PG you would at least make some calls.

Then there is this:

Layden speaking with @PAOnTheMic calls Rubio a terrific player and speaking as though RR will stay.

https://twitter.com/apkrawczynski/status/746348565027495936

I'm gonna have to listen to Layden and PA later to see what was said for myself.

Monster, what is he supposed to say? That we have to move Rubio now, or that we don't see Ricky as part of our long term plan? Talk about killing any trade leverage he has. He basically said what he had to.

That is always the go to response to these statements but I would further ask, what is he supposed to say if he really feels that way? Its a no win situation for these guys in charge. The truth will lie in what the team does in the next 3 weeks.

Cool, what do you mean about "killing trade leverage?" Do you mean they killed the leverage for trading Rubio by drafting Dunn?

No, if he indicates that Ricky isn't part of the plan, he effectively makes it more difficult for us to get a top value return. He needs to act like we still value him highly and don't necessarily need to make a move.

Agree with that last sentence, which is what he's saying, and I think it's true that they do value Rubio.

How has he indicated that Ricky isn't part of the plan other than by drafting Dunn? And if drafting Dunn is the only thing that has lowered Rubio's trade value, what was the alternative? I'm not asking to argue, but just to figure out what you would have advocated they do differently.

Drew, I think you're misreading my point. Whether they intend to trade Ricky or not, my point is it makes no sense to broadcast any trade intentions. But suppose privately they've decided to move Ricky. That is the last thing you want potential suitors to know. You maintain full leverage by not showing any desperation to act. So all I was saying in response to Monster was Layden said exactly what he needed to, and that it may not truly reflect the stance of the organization.

I agree with everything you are saying. And to clarify one last point, you are not saying Layden and Thibs did make a mistake by broadcasting an intent to trade Ricky, just that it would have been a mistake if they had done so, correct?

Exactly. Hold your cards close to the vest regardless of which direction you want to move.

Good advice. That's what I like about Layden and Thibs. They seem like the kind of guys who don't seem to give away too much to the media, in part because are good at giving nonanswers. And if you can't sleep at night, just play a Thibs monologue and set it to repeat.

Do you think it's even harder today to prevent rumors from getting out? With more writers and bloggers turning their own speculation into "rumors," and with social media spreading short, context-less information so quickly and so fast, I imagine that there's a lot of misinformation out there. Hell, I was freaked out over a fake Woj last night! :)

[Monster]

I think the odds they go into next season with both Dunn and Rubio are very low. The fact that they actively shopped Rubio has me believing he'll be traded at some point. I think they want someone to absorb Pek's contract and Rubio is the price.

SP, do we know for a fact that Thibs/Leydon were actively shopping Rubio? Thibs handing the keys to Dunn or Jones as our starting PG seems contrary to everything we know about him...I don't think a team with one of those guys starting next year would be a playoff team. Rubio rumors have been part of our lives since we drafted him, and I guess I haven't heard anything that I would deem reliable. I would like to hear the Wolves say they never shopped Rubio (like Milt had to do last year), but that doesn't seem to be their style. Silence from Thibs in this case tells me nothing.

Yep LST. I wonder if there were teams calling about Rubio because of the "He can't possibly for with Thibs because he doesn't shoot or score" thinking plus it was likely the Wolves were going to get a possible PG either Dunn or Murray (some basketball minds seem to think Murray is a PG) and if you are a team that needs a PG you would at least make some calls.

Then there is this:

Layden speaking with @PAOnTheMic calls Rubio a terrific player and speaking as though RR will stay.

https://twitter.com/apkrawczynski/status/746348565027495936

I'm gonna have to listen to Layden and PA later to see what was said for myself.

Monster, what is he supposed to say? That we have to move Rubio now, or that we don't see Ricky as part of our long term plan? Talk about killing any trade leverage he has. He basically said what he had to.

That is always the go to response to these statements but I would further ask, what is he supposed to say if he really feels that way? Its a no win situation for these guys in charge. The truth will lie in what the team does in the next 3 weeks.

Cool, what do you mean about "killing trade leverage?" Do you mean they killed the leverage for trading Rubio by drafting Dunn?

No, if he indicates that Ricky isn't part of the plan, he effectively makes it more difficult for us to get a top value return. He needs to act like we still value him highly and don't necessarily need to make a move.

Agree with that last sentence, which is what he's saying, and I think it's true that they do value Rubio.

How has he indicated that Ricky isn't part of the plan other than by drafting Dunn? And if drafting Dunn is the only thing that has lowered Rubio's trade value, what was the alternative? I'm not asking to argue, but just to figure out what you would have advocated they do differently.

Drew, I think you're misreading my point. Whether they intend to trade Ricky or not, my point is it makes no sense to broadcast any trade intentions. But suppose privately they've decided to move Ricky. That is the last thing you want potential suitors to know. You maintain full leverage by not showing any desperation to act. So all I was saying in response to Monster was Layden said exactly what he needed to, and that it may not truly reflect the stance of the organization.

I agree with everything you are saying. And to clarify one last point, you are not saying Layden and Thibs did make a mistake by broadcasting an intent to trade Ricky, just that it would have been a mistake if they had done so, correct?

Exactly. Hold your cards close to the vest regardless of which direction you want to move.

Good advice. That's what I like about Layden and Thibs. They seem like the kind of guys who don't seem to give away too much to the media, in part because are good at giving nonanswers. And if you can't sleep at night, just play a Thibs monologue and set it to repeat.

Do you think it's even harder today to prevent rumors from getting out? With more writers and bloggers turning their own speculation into "rumors," and with social media spreading short, context-less information so quickly and so fast, I imagine that there's a lot of misinformation out there. Hell, I was freaked out over a fake Woj last night! :)

Um I guess maybe we should add unless someone here actually listened to Layden on PA we don't actually know what he said. That's why I qualified at the end of my post that I wanted to listen to what he said myself.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I agree with Cool that Leydon is likely too smart to not build up Rubio and say he was in our plans. But that wasn't my point. TheSP made a comment that the Wolves were actively shopping Rubio, and I asked if there was any substantiation of this rumor. It just didn't make sense to me, because we really don't have any ready-made options at PG. I like both Tyus and Dunn and both had terrific final years in college, but they also both have significant flaws that are going to prevent Thibs from relying on them too much this season. Tyus protects the ball well and is a good distributor, but he has physical limitations and struggles on defense. Dunn is just the opposite. He has terrific physical gifts and was the Big East defensive player of the year, but as pete pointed out, a 1.77 assist:TO ratio is terrible. If Thibs/Leydon were really actively shopping Rubio this week, I would have a big problem with their decision making.

I find the issues with our two backup PGs to be much more dire than the oft-discussed Rubio shooting issues. Rubio is among the best PGs in defense, rebounding and A/TO ratio, and his positives make him a very good NBA PG despite his subpar shooting. I look for Ricky to still get 36 MPG this season, and for Dunn and Tyus to get the rest depending on which one of them improves fastest in their areas of weakness.

So do I think Dunn was a bad choice at #5 if I expect him to only be a backup PG (or even 3rd PG) this season? No, I don't. It was an odd year in that so many of the lottery picks have serious flaws. Simmons is a prodigy in many areas, but his shooting makes Rubio look like Steph Curry. Ingram may not fill out enough to be a solid contributor for a couple years...he's ridiculously skinny for an NBA SF. Brown can't shoot, Bender is an unknown, and Hield and Marray are both turnover prone and undersized for an NBA 2. Like Dunn, there are things I like about all of them, but I don't think we are going to see any rookie contributions like KAT last year....or maybe even Wig 2 years ago. Patience will be needed with all these guys. But there were reasons many liked Dunn at 3, so he was the obvious choice at 5.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Don't mistake Dunn's low assist:turnover ratio as a lack of playmaking abilities or lack of vision. The guy was still top 12 in the nation in assists per game the last two years. He has a turnover problem, but he doesn't have tunnel vision or a lack of playmaking problem. Bad decision making is more fixable than lack of vision or feel for playmaking.