Wolves are officially bringing back Layden and Saunders

[mjs34]

KG asked the question so I responded for Cam because I know Cam wasn't going to respond. Once again I completely understand why Thibs was fired, he is an Asshole and made mistakes as the PBO, including Gorgui contract, Wiggins contract (what I still understand why he did it, I mean a smart basketball mind Lip said at the time he would take Wiggins over Embiid) picking Dunn and picking Patton (Little unlucky with injuries not saying he would of been a stud or anything).

I just don't think Thibs was as bad as people think as both but the narrative is negative because Thibs is an asshole. While people have enjoyed Ryan style of play but its the exact same as Thibs and the things that people complained about Thibs on how he ran his offesnse (Pace, 3pt attempts) and how he played defense (Defense the 3 worse than any other team in the NBA), Ryans team did it worse but it is ok and more enjoyable because he is a nice guy. (I completely understand your point on how it takes time to change the culture and I completely understand why he would be given a full offseason to prove he can change the style and culture of play).

You talk about all the assets he acquired, well every thing Thibs traded those players value have went down from when they are traded. Lavine value is down, Dunn value is down, Rubio value is down, Markannann is the only one who probably has higher value but we don't know how much value he actually has. The same people that are mad that we gave up these assets are the same people who are mad we didn't trade wiggins earlier, hindsight is great when things don't work out but Thibs got out of a 20 mil dollar contract for a below average player in Lavine. In every trade he made he acquired a future asset.

Thibs got fired because of the 4 picks he had he had 2 bad ones (Dunn, Patton), one good one (Okogie looks like the best or 2nd best player drafted around that area) and one ok value one (KBD was the best player selected in that area so far), he acquired an all nba player and it didn't work and Thibs is an asshole. But I will strongly disagree with anyone that says he is in the Kahn level. In the end he is the 2nd best coach the Wolves have ever had, low bar I know but you are judged by wins and losses and he was the 2nd best in terms of record.

I am not a fan of signing Saunders to a new deal until we have a POBO in place. I am tired of this team doing things ass backwards, and that would be another move along those lines. That being said, I don't understand why you continue to completely over look blatant facts staring you in the face Kek.

Covington, who is our best defender, and one of our few 3pt threats has been out for Ryan's whole stretch of games. He has also been playing with one or two starters for the last several weeks. Thibs not only was the coach, but is responsible for the team we see nightly. Saunders can't change that, and it is very difficult to change out an offense mid season.

I am not sure why you feel that guys like Dunn (who Thibs drafted), Lavine and Markkanen have lost value. I would trade Cov, Saric, and Bayless for Markkanen straight up tomorrow if offered. I wouldn't hesitate to take Lavine back at his current salary.

Bottom line is Thibs was supposed to be some defensive guru, but yet even after remaking this team with Butler and using all of the available cap space (and more) and assets he still couldn't get them into the top half of the league defensively. Thibs was a failure, plain and simple.

The next POBO is going to have to go backwards with this team before he can go forward.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Thibs did not do well.

He arrived with sky-high expectations with a team full of promise and potential.

1. Towns.
2. Wiggins.
3. LaVine.

The team is down to only one of those assets now.

We're about to enter year #6 of hoping that Andrew Wiggins will be a positive differentiator. Thibs didn't do great here despite breaking the embarrassing playoff streak. But he wasn't alone. The players are culpable too... namely Andrew Wiggins.

Because of that contract... and the empty cupboard thanks to Thibs... the Timberwolves are basically right back to where they started. Only without the 3rd asset... and minimal expectations for the 2nd asset.

woe

[kekgeek]

David Griffin to the Pelicans

[kekgeek]

Walton fired and is the favorite for the kings job.

Ty Lue favorite for the Lakers job

[Monster]

Let's just move on. Thibs is gone. Ryan is going to get his chance to put his own stamp on the team. Some may not like it, I don't even know how I feel about it. But it is kind of exciting to know a new POBO is coming in. Hopefully we finally find the right guy to start changing the culture here. If Ryan flourishes under the new President, we will all be very happy.

+1 IMHO

[Monster]

Generally speaking players tend to say good things about their coach. This article does sound like a lot of sunshine and rainbows but when a guy like Luol Deng said he believes the job should be Ryan's does that actually carry some weight? He played for Thibs. He played for Spo and was in the Miami organization. He was in LA with a bunch of kids and a young coach in Walton.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/10/timberwolves-players-fully-behind-ryan-saunders-head-coaching-candidacy/

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Generally speaking players tend to say good things about their coach. This article does sound like a lot of sunshine and rainbows but when a guy like Luol Deng said he believes the job should be Ryan's does that actually carry some weight? He played for Thibs. He played for Spo and was in the Miami organization. He was in LA with a bunch of kids and a young coach in Walton.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/10/timberwolves-players-fully-behind-ryan-saunders-head-coaching-candidacy/

I'm a Luol Deng guy, but his opinion on the Wolves' vacant positions means very little to me.

Also, I'd expect him to have positive things to say about Saunders -- he's the one that threw him off the end of the bench and into the rotation!

[SameOldNudityDrew]

David Griffin to the Pelicans

Bummer. I think that guy would have been a good hire.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Thibs did not do well.

He arrived with sky-high expectations with a team full of promise and potential.

1. Towns.
2. Wiggins.
3. LaVine.

The team is down to only one of those assets now.

We're about to enter year #6 of hoping that Andrew Wiggins will be a positive differentiator. Thibs didn't do great here despite breaking the embarrassing playoff streak. But he wasn't alone. The players are culpable too... namely Andrew Wiggins.

Because of that contract... and the empty cupboard thanks to Thibs... the Timberwolves are basically right back to where they started. Only without the 3rd asset... and minimal expectations for the 2nd asset.

woe

Giving Wiggins that contract is the biggest mistake this franchise has made in a really long time. It's difficult to see how we built around KAT with that contract stuck on our books. I hate to say it, but I wonder how soon until the collective wisdom is that we should trade KAT for as many assets as we can get and start the rebuild.

That said, LaVine for Jimmy was a good deal at the time, but of course it looks bad in retrospect because Jimmy turned out to be a head case. LaVine's offensive ceiling has always been incredibly high, but he hasn't proven he'll be anything better than a Monta Ellis-style scorer who doesn't actually make his team better. With the right pieces around them, Jimmy and KAT could have been a very good duo.

And Robert Covington is at his lowest value right now because of the injury, but his impact on our defense when he was on the floor was amazing. If he can come back and continue to knock down 3s at a good rate, he's still a perfect complementary player on a great value contract. That's almost more valuable than a high-volume scorer on a high contract.

Of course, I'm just trying to make myself feel better. This team had one year of hope, and now we're back to mediocrity and failing to live up to expectations. Since 2004, being a fan of this team has been like being unable to leave an abusive relationship. I often think I need to do it for my own sanity. There are so many teams I like more than ours, but it's like I feel stuck rooting for this fucking dysfunctional franchise that perpetually lets me down. *sigh*

[Lipoli390]

Thibs did not do well.

He arrived with sky-high expectations with a team full of promise and potential.

1. Towns.
2. Wiggins.
3. LaVine.

The team is down to only one of those assets now.

We're about to enter year #6 of hoping that Andrew Wiggins will be a positive differentiator. Thibs didn't do great here despite breaking the embarrassing playoff streak. But he wasn't alone. The players are culpable too... namely Andrew Wiggins.

Because of that contract... and the empty cupboard thanks to Thibs... the Timberwolves are basically right back to where they started. Only without the 3rd asset... and minimal expectations for the 2nd asset.

woe

I agree. The players are certainly culpable. And yes, Thibs was a bad PBO as evidenced by the following:

1. Drafting Dunn instead of Murray or Hield
2. Drafting Patton instead of John Collins or Anunoby
3. Giving Gorgui a huge contract and 9 months later signing Taj to take his place
4. Giving Wiggins a max deal
5. Signing Teague to 3 years guaranteed at $19 million per year
6. Myopically and pathetically pursing former Bulls who played for him as his FA targets
7. Trading for Butler in spite of red flags about his ability to get along with younger teammates
8. Burying his head in the sand when Butler was privately saying he wanted out instead of trading him before his value plummeted following his public trade demand and then allowing the situation to fester after the trade demand
9. Alienating nearly everyone in the organization by the way he treated them
10. Doing nothing innovative or creative
11. Not firing himself from the head coaching position after winning only one more game than Sam Mitchell the season before. :)

Otherwise, I'll give him credit for getting a 1st round pick for Ricky and using it to take Okogie. I'll give him some credit for the KBD pick, but that sure seemed like an easy one. But that's about it.