PorkChop wrote:The Knicks could look like this next year
Irving
Durant
Zion Williamson
Kevin Knox
Mitch Robinson
Wow!
That would take some good fortune but yes it's possible. And they have have young cheap players as assets to trade or to fill the roster out and draft picks. I don't want to sounds like a Knicks fan because I'm not but really like the move. We might be forced to do something like this with Kat sooner then people wants to admit. Just sayin. Because this is coming with him for sure!
I like the trade for both teams but is it a good trade if they can't get Irving and Durant and get Harris and Cousins again. And if odds they would get the 5th pick.
But I like the gamble.
It is possible they could do this.
Irving/mudiay
Barrett (with the Mavs pick that lands #2)/smith
Durant/Knox
Zion (#1 pick)/vonleh
Cheap center (jordan or kanter, I doubt)
But they could end up with.
Smith/ mudiay
Knox
Harris (max to near max)
Vonleh
Cousins (near max)/Bol bol (random #5 pick)
Then that 2021 pick becomes late 20s pick
Mavs pick this year goes to Atlanta for the Luka trade. The first pick they will get from the Mavs is 2021.
To me if the Knicks miss out on the Kyrie Durant type FAs they would be smart to use their space to keep building. Sign some guys to good deals or short term (even just 1 year) ones. Maybe even use some space to add more draft picks by taking on a bad contract for a year. Trade for Wiggins. Lol jk but seriously why jump the gun? They don't have any young players they have to win NOW with. I know it's the Knicks and there is always some pressure there but they didn't want to deal anything for Jimmy a few months ago and they have some pieces there. Utilize the opportunity to develop some players. Both from your roster and guys you can add both for your future and possibly for the next deal that can be made. They could also throw some decent
Money at various RFAs and see what happens. It will be interesting to see if Fizdale is the right guy for that franchise. He has a crappy roster this year but I'm a little more skeptical after this year than I was going into it. Regardless they are already the worst team in the league and will likely be much worse once everything shakes out from this deal.
It's the 1st unprotected pick zach lowe reported. The pick to the hawks is top 5 protected but if it is in the top 5 the Knicks get it
Interesting. If that's really how it is (the last I heard nobody was really sure how that would pan out) then this deal could be even better than it was before. Getting a top 5 pick this year would be pretty big.
khans2k5 wrote:Stars in this league still want to win and joining a bunch of guys on rookie deals isn't gonna help the Knicks in landing these Free Agents. This isn't LA where half the league resides in the offseason and even look at the Lakers now. LeBron wants all those young guys shipped out to get AD. The Knicks aren't getting KD and Kyrie off this move because those guys don't want to carry a bunch of rookies. Kyrie doesn't like doing it with Tatum and Brown right now on a good team and he's supposedly gonna be ok doing it with worse prospects in NY? Zion isn't a selling point because you have to share the spotlight with a rookie who's unproven at this level and that's only a 14% chance that happens anyway. The Knicks have always whiffed in free agent superstars so why is this summer any different? They have nothing to offer these free agents outside of saving basketball in NY will make them a huge celebrity except they can't save basketball in NY because it's a bunch of kids playing next to them.
Their owner sucks. Their organization sucks and just traded away their best player in a decade because he didn't like the people running the organization. I don't see how this is a good trade for them outside of the wild chance Porzingas is just done and the Mavs suck and give them great picks. They could have actually built up a good foundation to this team if they thought KP needed to be traded and got a bunch of young pieces back to go with a top pick this year and properly rebuild it. Instead they are banking everything on free agency and if they whiff they're toast. DSJ and Frank is a trash backcourt that's gonna tank them to the number 1 lottery odds.
Put it this way. If the Wolves traded Towns for cap space to go after KD or Kyrie this summer would you think this was a good trade for us? Do you think them being the Knicks is that big of a difference between those two situations that we look fucking insane and they don't? Because that's the main difference they have going for them in this scenario. Their are hoping the Knick brand carries the day because nothing else is positively on their side.
From the Knicks perspective that's not a fair comparison. They traded a guy that didn't want to be there, is dealing with injuries at a height that history doesn't shine favorably upon. Considering The situation I think they did okay. You have to make moves in the hopes of the chips falling in the most optimal way not in fear of the worst. At the end of the day if things don't work out for the Knicks what have they really lost?
Uhhh...they might have just lost their franchise player for nothing. You know the thing that every fan base in the league is never ok with that just happening. As an RFA with his injury history he would have been the dumbest player in the history of basketball to turn down his max extension just to get out when he could force a trade after the contract was signed like everyone else does. Who's turned down the max extension for the QO before?
I'm hesitant to call him a franchise player quite. I guess we just value him differently. I think they made out pretty good on that trade.
Duke13 wrote:Savy move by the Knicks! Wish the wolves had vision like this once the past 20 years. Huge gamble by Dallas, one I don't think they needed to make this early with Doncic.
The New York Knicks have been one of the worst run franchises in the history of professional sports. The fact they haven't been able to compete with all the built in advantages they have, is truly amazing. Is this an example of savvy thinking? Perhaps, but the obvious question would be, "what the fuck took so long?" I mean how do they wallow in mediocrity year after year when the very league they play in wants them to win so badly? It would be like the New York Yankees having a sub .500 record for a decade.
Let's not compare our situation with that of the New York Knickerbockers. A stranger parallel can hardly be drawn.
Cool - You're absolutely right about the Knicks being a horribly run franchise for a long time. But that doesn't tell us anything about this particular move by their current front office. Trading an unhappy potential star on an expiring deal and coming off ACL surgery for the very talented young Smith, two first round picks and effectively $70 million in cap space to go with Knox, Mudiay and Ntilikina looks pretty savvy to me. We'll see what they do with the cap space and draft picks, but the Knicks finally seem to be getting it right.
I've actually never compared our situation to the Knicks. But I think it's fair to say that neither franchise has been well run for a long time. And now we have Scott Layden running our front office - the same guy who as Knicks' PBO was voted worst front office executive at the time.
Very easy comparison, both franchises have been clown shows for 20 years! You can compare the market size all you want. You can win in this league despite market size if you're a well run smart organization. You can think otherwise but I'd say you're wrong. Since getting Kat, the wolves have been a terribly run franchise, they've wasted the the most important years after drafting a star player to build something sustainable. They've had plenty of resources to do so but have made unwise decisions repeatedly.
This is a new front office for the Knicks, finally a forwarded thinking move by them, even if they swing and miss this year in FA.
I'll agree to disagree with you. The fact the Knicks haven't been able to contend over the last 20 years is a much bigger indictment on their ownership than ours. I'm not going to defend our organization, it's been terrible. But players don't fight to get out of New York like Love did. (Do I really have to continue to make this case? It seems so ridiculous to me).
Anyway, the biggest problem with the Knicks has been their lack of patience. If they just would have stopped and reset once instead of trying to win every year with aging stars like Carmelo. It's just been a constant misguided effort to try to be relevant every year in the big apple. I think what they did yesterday is long overdue and will end up being a great move for them.
Sometimes I revisit things that were said on this forum because I think it's totally fair to maintain some kind of accountability here. Remember when we were discussing hypothetical Jimmy Butler trade ideas and trade chips that we'd have interest in? I threw out D'Angelo Russell's name and an explanation and got some brush back for it. Well, he's an All-Star at the ripe age of 22 (almost 23). Imagine pairing him up with close friend Karl-Anthony Towns. Sheesh. Not saying he was even available, but damn, that would have been an ideal pairing for the now and long-term.
Camden0916 wrote:Sometimes I revisit things that were said on this forum because I think it's totally fair to maintain some kind of accountability here. Remember when we were discussing hypothetical Jimmy Butler trade ideas and trade chips that we'd have interest in? I threw out D'Angelo Russell's name and an explanation and got some brush back for it. Well, he's an All-Star at the ripe age of 22 (almost 23). Imagine pairing him up with close friend Karl-Anthony Towns. Sheesh. Not saying he was even available, but damn, that would have been an ideal pairing for the now and long-term.
Yep I've been thinking the same thing.
Also Towns is now the only player in the top 5 of that draft that's still with his first team.
Camden0916 wrote:Sometimes I revisit things that were said on this forum because I think it's totally fair to maintain some kind of accountability here. Remember when we were discussing hypothetical Jimmy Butler trade ideas and trade chips that we'd have interest in? I threw out D'Angelo Russell's name and an explanation and got some brush back for it. Well, he's an All-Star at the ripe age of 22 (almost 23). Imagine pairing him up with close friend Karl-Anthony Towns. Sheesh. Not saying he was even available, but damn, that would have been an ideal pairing for the now and long-term.
Yep I've been thinking the same thing.
Also Towns is now the only player in the top 5 of that draft that's still with his first team.
Makes me think should the wolves try and trade for fultz. Huge risk but dude has talent and we need to find another star type player somewhere
If you want to know what the NBA is becoming look no farther than the lakers going after AD.
Reports are the lakers will not include KCP in any trade. Now KCP sucks (relatively) but he is a rich paul client so he won't be traded because of that. Agent politics are becoming huge. Reminders me of shoe companies in college basketball. Highly recommended the book "play their hearts out" the demitrus Walker story, its probably my favorite sports book of all time
kekgeek1 wrote:If you want to know what the NBA is becoming look no farther than the lakers going after AD.
Reports are the lakers will not include KCP in any trade. Now KCP sucks (relatively) but he is a rich paul client so he won't be traded because of that. Agent politics are becoming huge. Reminders me of shoe companies in college basketball. Highly recommended the book "play their hearts out" the demitrus Walker story, its probably my favorite sports book of all time
Cant kcp veto a trade? And dont ther Lakers need his contact to create room for another max contract in the offseason?
That's hilarious if the KCP thing is true. If I were New Orleans I'd be laughing and saying "thanks!" if they said he was off the table.
I'm all for players having power and influence, but some of the guys whose agents have been making public trade requests and stuff like that are ridiculous. Thon Maker? Chriss? KCP? Dennis Smith? C'mon. You have to prove something before any team should tolerate that kind of stuff getting public.
First there was a report the Lakers offered basically everything you could reasonably want and now there are reports they are offering just a couple pieces and Rondo and Lance or whatever. KCP would have a no trade clause as well as Lance and Rondo and McGee and chandler and Beasley... The idea KCP (because of who his agent is) would hold up an AD deal is ridiculous to me. Meanwhile AD's dad said he would never want his son playing for the Celtics after how they did IT wrong. Only a few more days till we find out if a deal gets done now or we wait a few more months.
