The Butler Didn't Do It

[Coolbreeze44]

Devils advocacy on this board is so ingrained that you can actually find posters willing to go to bat for Jimmy Butler. What is wrong with some of you? I mean you do care about the Wolves franchise don't you? I would assume you do since so much time is spent posting here. The democratic congress has nothing on some of you people.

Was he wrong with his criticisms of the team? No. Did he tell Thibs he wanted out and Thibs refused to listen until it became untenable? Yes. You have a lot of hate for a guy who gave the organization a chance to prevent the PR disaster it became and they chose to ignore it so he blew it up. Sorry we aren't that petty to baby rage every time Jimmy is on a TV screen because he exposed some big time flaws in our players and organization and both proceeded to do jack shit to prove him wrong when he left.

Wow, talk about only hearing what you want to hear. Nice job Khans.

Lol you started a thread shit talking a guy for not making it past the second round when our joke of a franchise couldn't even get the 8 seed without him. Then you call people dumb fucks for being ok with what he did to this franchise because our soft millennials couldn't prove him wrong when given the chance. Then you question our loyalty to the franchise just because we don't join you in your salty quest to tear down a grown man playing a game. What am I missing that you think I'm hearing you wrong? You posted all of that. Get over it already. Jesus.

I was strictly talking about what you've heard about the Butler-Wolves breakup. Man, you get so into debate mode that you can't even think straight.

I long for the old ESPN board days. That was the best board and best overall group of guys I've ever discussed sports with on a forum. This board can't approach that anymore. Too many guys who just like to fight, and very few who can contribute in a positive way. You old ESPN guys know who you are and know I have a lot of respect for you, If I had the time I would start an invite-only board and eliminate the crap.

[WildWolf2813]

Devils advocacy on this board is so ingrained that you can actually find posters willing to go to bat for Jimmy Butler. What is wrong with some of you? I mean you do care about the Wolves franchise don't you? I would assume you do since so much time is spent posting here. The democratic congress has nothing on some of you people.

Was he wrong with his criticisms of the team? No. Did he tell Thibs he wanted out and Thibs refused to listen until it became untenable? Yes. You have a lot of hate for a guy who gave the organization a chance to prevent the PR disaster it became and they chose to ignore it so he blew it up. Sorry we aren't that petty to baby rage every time Jimmy is on a TV screen because he exposed some big time flaws in our players and organization and both proceeded to do jack shit to prove him wrong when he left.

It's hard to disagree with this.


Whether we feel Butler was flat out wrong in how he dealt with things, at the end of the day, the Wolves can't win the battle of public opinion. They've given no one any reason to give this franchise the benefit of the doubt. And I'd probably dislike Jimmy (and to a lesser extent Thibs) a lot more if they hadn't made it to the playoffs, but they did and that's more than I can say about this team in the short term.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Devils advocacy on this board is so ingrained that you can actually find posters willing to go to bat for Jimmy Butler. What is wrong with some of you? I mean you do care about the Wolves franchise don't you? I would assume you do since so much time is spent posting here. The democratic congress has nothing on some of you people.

Was he wrong with his criticisms of the team? No. Did he tell Thibs he wanted out and Thibs refused to listen until it became untenable? Yes. You have a lot of hate for a guy who gave the organization a chance to prevent the PR disaster it became and they chose to ignore it so he blew it up. Sorry we aren't that petty to baby rage every time Jimmy is on a TV screen because he exposed some big time flaws in our players and organization and both proceeded to do jack shit to prove him wrong when he left.

Wow, talk about only hearing what you want to hear. Nice job Khans.

Lol you started a thread shit talking a guy for not making it past the second round when our joke of a franchise couldn't even get the 8 seed without him. Then you call people dumb fucks for being ok with what he did to this franchise because our soft millennials couldn't prove him wrong when given the chance. Then you question our loyalty to the franchise just because we don't join you in your salty quest to tear down a grown man playing a game. What am I missing that you think I'm hearing you wrong? You posted all of that. Get over it already. Jesus.

I was strictly talking about what you've heard about the Butler-Wolves breakup. Man, you get so into debate mode that you can't even think straight.

I long for the old ESPN board days. That was the best board and best overall group of guys I've ever discussed sports with on a forum. This board can't approach that anymore. Too many guys who just like to fight, and very few who can contribute in a positive way. You old ESPN guys know who you are and know I have a lot of respect for you, If I had the time I would start an invite-only board and eliminate the crap.

Look at your posts in this thread and tell me how any of them are quality/good basketball talking points. Maybe take a look in the mirror and realize this thread devolved because you called people dumb fucks and questioned their fan integrity. If you want better you also need to be better.

[ItsJustSoSab]

Devils advocacy on this board is so ingrained that you can actually find posters willing to go to bat for Jimmy Butler. What is wrong with some of you? I mean you do care about the Wolves franchise don't you? I would assume you do since so much time is spent posting here. The democratic congress has nothing on some of you people.

Was he wrong with his criticisms of the team? No. Did he tell Thibs he wanted out and Thibs refused to listen until it became untenable? Yes. You have a lot of hate for a guy who gave the organization a chance to prevent the PR disaster it became and they chose to ignore it so he blew it up. Sorry we aren't that petty to baby rage every time Jimmy is on a TV screen because he exposed some big time flaws in our players and organization and both proceeded to do jack shit to prove him wrong when he left.

Wow, talk about only hearing what you want to hear. Nice job Khans.

Lol you started a thread shit talking a guy for not making it past the second round when our joke of a franchise couldn't even get the 8 seed without him. Then you call people dumb fucks for being ok with what he did to this franchise because our soft millennials couldn't prove him wrong when given the chance. Then you question our loyalty to the franchise just because we don't join you in your salty quest to tear down a grown man playing a game. What am I missing that you think I'm hearing you wrong? You posted all of that. Get over it already. Jesus.

I was strictly talking about what you've heard about the Butler-Wolves breakup. Man, you get so into debate mode that you can't even think straight.

I long for the old ESPN board days. That was the best board and best overall group of guys I've ever discussed sports with on a forum. This board can't approach that anymore. Too many guys who just like to fight, and very few who can contribute in a positive way. You old ESPN guys know who you are and know I have a lot of respect for you, If I had the time I would start an invite-only board and eliminate the crap.

On the old ESPN boards you once got into an argument with Mr. Hockey that last over 20 pages. That got personal and pretty nasty, so I think you're building up the kum ba ya-ness of the old board in your mind. Plenty of arguing and negativity were there. Most if not all the people on this current forum were on the old ESPN board. You, Lip, SJM, Monster, Khan, SP, Cam, Abe etc etc. Other than Hockey, Big Ten, Generic User, that guy who loved Ricky Rubio a bunch, and the troll Blazer fan, it's all the same man.

You're the only one fighting here. I made a little joke at the start to poke fun, you then turned it angry, and have kept it going negative since then. You. Nobody else. Now people are just giving their opinions and....you're mad? If you can't help attacking people because of your actions when it involves Jimmy Butler in the discussion, maybe just don't bring it up anymore.

[Monster]

I was cheering for Toronto also and against Butler. I'll also mention that Embiid while a good player annoys me. Regardless of all that what a game! I watched most of the 2nd half it was super enjoyable to watch. Both teams going back and forth etc.

This offseason is gonna be super interesting. What happens with the Celtics? Sixers? Toronto? GS? It could be chaos depending on a few decisions players make. Meanwhile there was chatter Brett Brown's job was in jeopardy...weird I don't get it.

I was cheering for Toronto also and against Butler. I'll also mention that Embiid while a good player annoys me. Regardless of all that what a game! I watched most of the 2nd half it was super enjoyable to watch. Both teams going back and forth etc.

This offseason is gonna be super interesting. What happens with the Celtics? Sixers? Toronto? GS? It could be chaos depending on a few decisions players make. Meanwhile there was chatter Brett Brown's job was in jeopardy...weird I don't get it.

Embiid annoys me too, Monster. In any event, as you noted, it was a great game 7 and an overall terrific series. I still think the Sixers were the more talented team. But a last second shot by the best player on the floor put the Raptors over the top.

Brett Brown is a great coach. Simmons' inability to hit perimeter shots and Embiid's lack of durability hurt the Sixers' chance of getting home court advantage. But they still almost beat the Raptors in game 7 in Toronto. I'd take Brown in a heartbeat as the Wolves next head coach if given the chance.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens this offseason with all four teams you mentioned. Will Kyrie leave the Celtics? And what about Butler and Harris? Will the Sixers retain one, the other or both. Will Durant leave the Warriors in search of his own team to lead? Stay tuned.

I had been thinking the Buck were the only top Eastern conference team that was pretty much set. I forgot Middleton is a FA as is Brook Lopez and Mirotic and George Hill. Some of those guys are more important to come back than others. Brogdon is a RFA. Of course the good news for Bucks fans is they have plenty of space to keep their own guys or if they leave sign someone else. This offseason could be completely insane. It's probably gonna be pretty boring as a Wolves fan but there is gonna be a ton of other stories to take about.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm not sure anyone really knows the true issue between Kawhi and the Spurs, except for those directly involved. A lot of he said, she said. I'd take Kawhi any day on my team.

It's not about his talent. Obviously, he's a boon to have on any team.

But refusing to work when you're being paid tens of millions to do so... is a bit unseemly for me. Was it injury-related? Maybe. Maybe not.

Refusing to work if it is injury related isn't unseemly at all. If that is his story why question it? I think it was a major oversight by San Antonio to doubt it and they paid the price for it. I bet if they could do it all over again they just would have played it liked they believed him and their staff and vets would have kept their mouths shut.

As noted, maybe he really was injured.

I dunno. Nobody does. But I do know that Leonard advocated for his own doctors. They didn't seem to do their jobs very well. And I do know that he distanced himself from teammates... who had nothing to do with the squabble.

So there's that.

Tony Parker said publicly that he played through a much worse injury than Kawhi. I'd say he had something to do with the squabble pretty directly. If a teammate called me out publicly like that I'd distance myself too. Yes no one knows, which makes me personally pause to cast judgement on Kawhi for his actions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/03/23/spurs-tony-parker-quad-injury-hundred-times-worse-kawhi-leonard/453946002/

Look at the date: March 23.

Kawhi Leonard had already missed 64 out of 73 games by then... and was shut down for the season. He had spent much (most?) of that time in NYC.

So if you want to blame Tony Parker for the squabble for speaking up about it with only two weeks left in the season... cool. Blame him.

[MikkeMan]

I had been thinking the Buck were the only top Eastern conference team that was pretty much set. I forgot Middleton is a FA as is Brook Lopez and Mirotic and George Hill. Some of those guys are more important to come back than others. Brogdon is a RFA. Of course the good news for Bucks fans is they have plenty of space to keep their own guys or if they leave sign someone else. This offseason could be completely insane. It's probably gonna be pretty boring as a Wolves fan but there is gonna be a ton of other stories to take about.

Based on information in HoopsHype and Basketball-Reference Hill has still one more year left in his contract. I guess Milwaukee tries to get rid of him in offseason that they would have enough money to sign Middleton and Brogdon.

[kekgeek]

I had been thinking the Buck were the only top Eastern conference team that was pretty much set. I forgot Middleton is a FA as is Brook Lopez and Mirotic and George Hill. Some of those guys are more important to come back than others. Brogdon is a RFA. Of course the good news for Bucks fans is they have plenty of space to keep their own guys or if they leave sign someone else. This offseason could be completely insane. It's probably gonna be pretty boring as a Wolves fan but there is gonna be a ton of other stories to take about.

Based on information in HoopsHype and Basketball-Reference Hill has still one more year left in his contract. I guess Milwaukee tries to get rid of him in offseason that they would have enough money to sign Middleton and Brogdon.

Hill contact is almost all un-guarenteed

[thedoper]

I'm not sure anyone really knows the true issue between Kawhi and the Spurs, except for those directly involved. A lot of he said, she said. I'd take Kawhi any day on my team.

It's not about his talent. Obviously, he's a boon to have on any team.

But refusing to work when you're being paid tens of millions to do so... is a bit unseemly for me. Was it injury-related? Maybe. Maybe not.

Refusing to work if it is injury related isn't unseemly at all. If that is his story why question it? I think it was a major oversight by San Antonio to doubt it and they paid the price for it. I bet if they could do it all over again they just would have played it liked they believed him and their staff and vets would have kept their mouths shut.

As noted, maybe he really was injured.

I dunno. Nobody does. But I do know that Leonard advocated for his own doctors. They didn't seem to do their jobs very well. And I do know that he distanced himself from teammates... who had nothing to do with the squabble.

So there's that.

Tony Parker said publicly that he played through a much worse injury than Kawhi. I'd say he had something to do with the squabble pretty directly. If a teammate called me out publicly like that I'd distance myself too. Yes no one knows, which makes me personally pause to cast judgement on Kawhi for his actions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/03/23/spurs-tony-parker-quad-injury-hundred-times-worse-kawhi-leonard/453946002/

Look at the date: March 23.

Kawhi Leonard had already missed 64 out of 73 games by then... and was shut down for the season. He had spent much (most?) of that time in NYC.

So if you want to blame Tony Parker for the squabble for speaking up about it with only two weeks left in the season... cool. Blame him.

I'm not blaming Parker, I'm not blaming anyone because I wasn't there. You said the players weren't involved. They were involved publicly by March, I'm sure they were involved privately before that. It's only logical. I'm just trying to maintain the point that as long as Kawhi claims that injury was keeping him out, why doubt him? Clearly every piece of evidence shows he works his ass off and doesn't publicly say things that are self entitled like his former teammate Parker. If anything Kawhi should be commended for keeping the whole ordeal behind closed doors and staying relatively silent throughout the process.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm not sure anyone really knows the true issue between Kawhi and the Spurs, except for those directly involved. A lot of he said, she said. I'd take Kawhi any day on my team.

It's not about his talent. Obviously, he's a boon to have on any team.

But refusing to work when you're being paid tens of millions to do so... is a bit unseemly for me. Was it injury-related? Maybe. Maybe not.

Refusing to work if it is injury related isn't unseemly at all. If that is his story why question it? I think it was a major oversight by San Antonio to doubt it and they paid the price for it. I bet if they could do it all over again they just would have played it liked they believed him and their staff and vets would have kept their mouths shut.

As noted, maybe he really was injured.

I dunno. Nobody does. But I do know that Leonard advocated for his own doctors. They didn't seem to do their jobs very well. And I do know that he distanced himself from teammates... who had nothing to do with the squabble.

So there's that.

Tony Parker said publicly that he played through a much worse injury than Kawhi. I'd say he had something to do with the squabble pretty directly. If a teammate called me out publicly like that I'd distance myself too. Yes no one knows, which makes me personally pause to cast judgement on Kawhi for his actions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/03/23/spurs-tony-parker-quad-injury-hundred-times-worse-kawhi-leonard/453946002/

Look at the date: March 23.

Kawhi Leonard had already missed 64 out of 73 games by then... and was shut down for the season. He had spent much (most?) of that time in NYC.

So if you want to blame Tony Parker for the squabble for speaking up about it with only two weeks left in the season... cool. Blame him.

I'm not blaming Parker, I'm not blaming anyone because I wasn't there. You said the players weren't involved. They were involved publicly by March, I'm sure they were involved privately before that. It's only logical. I'm just trying to maintain the point that as long as Kawhi claims that injury was keeping him out, why doubt him? Clearly every piece of evidence shows he works his ass off and doesn't publicly say things that are self entitled like his former teammate Parker. If anything Kawhi should be commended for keeping the whole ordeal behind closed doors and staying relatively silent throughout the process.

"commended?"

We see the situation very differently. I have not heard any sources closer to the situation than us use that word to describe Kawhi Leonard's actions last season. By almost all sources, he and Uncle Dennis handled the situation poorly... even if they used more cryptic evasive strategies than Butler's blowhard contrived PR stunts.