Make a big move or leave things alone?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We've got an entire thread dedicated to the pros and cons of Ben Simmons and what it might take to trade for him. What about staying pat? Lead01 seems to think this is the way to go.

Here is the key stat for the "stay patters" to hang their hat on:
DLO/Edwards/KAT - Net rating of +4.9 in 24 games and 327 minutes of playing together.

That's not awesome, but it does tell us that when our three "stars" play together, they generally outplay their opponents. Assuming the Wolves can assemble a league average supporting cast around them, you are talking about a team that can go out and win 40-45 games.

Is that good enough for next season? What about growing beyond that? Thoughts?

[thedoper]

We've got an entire thread dedicated to the pros and cons of Ben Simmons and what it might take to trade for him. What about staying pat? Lead01 seems to think this is the way to go.

Here is the key stat for the "stay patters" to hang their hat on:
DLO/Edwards/KAT - Net rating of +4.9 in 24 games and 327 minutes of playing together.

That's not awesome, but it does tell us that when our three "stars" play together, they generally outplay their opponents. Assuming the Wolves can assemble a league average supporting cast around them, you are talking about a team that can go out and win 40-45 games.

Is that good enough for next season? What about growing beyond that? Thoughts?

I think if we stay pat everything has to go right for us to get to 40-45 wins. This year in the NBA seems to show that rarely everything goes right for teams and depth in high end talent is key for sucess.

If staying pat means moves on the margins that would be an ideal alternative to a big splash move. Can we turn all the assets except Ant, KAT, DLo and McDaniels into winning talent? Im not sure, but if we cant land a big name, i do think we need to upgrade the 4 as an absolute.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Both?

Edwards and Towns stay. I'm not much of a Russell fan, and I don't see more than 40 - 45 wins with him as a starter. So I'm cool with him being jettisoned.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We've got an entire thread dedicated to the pros and cons of Ben Simmons and what it might take to trade for him. What about staying pat? Lead01 seems to think this is the way to go.

Here is the key stat for the "stay patters" to hang their hat on:
DLO/Edwards/KAT - Net rating of +4.9 in 24 games and 327 minutes of playing together.

That's not awesome, but it does tell us that when our three "stars" play together, they generally outplay their opponents. Assuming the Wolves can assemble a league average supporting cast around them, you are talking about a team that can go out and win 40-45 games.

Is that good enough for next season? What about growing beyond that? Thoughts?

I think if we stay pat everything has to go right for us to get to 40-45 wins. This year in the NBA seems to show that rarely everything goes right for teams and depth in high end talent is key for sucess.

If staying pat means moves on the margins that would be an ideal alternative to a big splash move. Can we turn all the assets except Ant, KAT, DLo and McDaniels into winning talent? Im not sure, but if we cant land a big name, i do think we need to upgrade the 4 as an absolute.

It's funny you say that. Let's add Vanderbilt into our preferred trio and see how things look:

KAT/DLO/Ant/Vando - Net rating of +19.3 over 11 games and 92 minutes

How about we look at 3-man lineups with Vando and two of the other guys:
KAT/DLO/Vando - +16
KAT/Ant/Vando - +5.1

And finally, who is KAT's #1 player he paired with? Vanderbilt at +5.0

There is a case to be made that Vando is a poor man's version of Simmons. He had the best defensive rating of any of our regular rotation players last year.

[thedoper]

We've got an entire thread dedicated to the pros and cons of Ben Simmons and what it might take to trade for him. What about staying pat? Lead01 seems to think this is the way to go.

Here is the key stat for the "stay patters" to hang their hat on:
DLO/Edwards/KAT - Net rating of +4.9 in 24 games and 327 minutes of playing together.

That's not awesome, but it does tell us that when our three "stars" play together, they generally outplay their opponents. Assuming the Wolves can assemble a league average supporting cast around them, you are talking about a team that can go out and win 40-45 games.

Is that good enough for next season? What about growing beyond that? Thoughts?

I think if we stay pat everything has to go right for us to get to 40-45 wins. This year in the NBA seems to show that rarely everything goes right for teams and depth in high end talent is key for sucess.

If staying pat means moves on the margins that would be an ideal alternative to a big splash move. Can we turn all the assets except Ant, KAT, DLo and McDaniels into winning talent? Im not sure, but if we cant land a big name, i do think we need to upgrade the 4 as an absolute.

It's funny you say that. Let's add Vanderbilt into our preferred trio and see how things look:

KAT/DLO/Ant/Vando - Net rating of +19.3 over 11 games and 92 minutes

How about we look at 3-man lineups with Vando and two of the other guys:
KAT/DLO/Vando - +16
KAT/Ant/Vando - +5.1

And finally, who is KAT's #1 player he paired with? Vanderbilt at +5.0

There is a case to be made that Vando is a poor man's version of Simmons. He had the best defensive rating of any of our regular rotation players last year.

You forgot to bold the 92 minutes.

Ive heard the statistical arguments for Vando. Think he had potential. Hes not a starting caliber player yet in my assesment.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We've got an entire thread dedicated to the pros and cons of Ben Simmons and what it might take to trade for him. What about staying pat? Lead01 seems to think this is the way to go.

Here is the key stat for the "stay patters" to hang their hat on:
DLO/Edwards/KAT - Net rating of +4.9 in 24 games and 327 minutes of playing together.

That's not awesome, but it does tell us that when our three "stars" play together, they generally outplay their opponents. Assuming the Wolves can assemble a league average supporting cast around them, you are talking about a team that can go out and win 40-45 games.

Is that good enough for next season? What about growing beyond that? Thoughts?

I think if we stay pat everything has to go right for us to get to 40-45 wins. This year in the NBA seems to show that rarely everything goes right for teams and depth in high end talent is key for sucess.

If staying pat means moves on the margins that would be an ideal alternative to a big splash move. Can we turn all the assets except Ant, KAT, DLo and McDaniels into winning talent? Im not sure, but if we cant land a big name, i do think we need to upgrade the 4 as an absolute.

It's funny you say that. Let's add Vanderbilt into our preferred trio and see how things look:

KAT/DLO/Ant/Vando - Net rating of +19.3 over 11 games and 92 minutes

How about we look at 3-man lineups with Vando and two of the other guys:
KAT/DLO/Vando - +16
KAT/Ant/Vando - +5.1

And finally, who is KAT's #1 player he paired with? Vanderbilt at +5.0

There is a case to be made that Vando is a poor man's version of Simmons. He had the best defensive rating of any of our regular rotation players last year.

You forgot to bold the 92 minutes.

Ive heard the statistical arguments for Vando. Think he had potential. Hes not a starting caliber player yet in my assesment.

I was on a bit of a roller-coaster with Vando this season. He validated my belief that he is a rotation-worthy player early on. But then when he did his first stint as a starter, I agree that he lost his luster and looked out of place. After a while in the wilderness, however, he re-emerged once again late in the season as a solid starting 4 next to KAT.

The stats above are indeed based on a limited sample size (although the 3-man combos are larger sample sizes) and combined with other stats it's hard to find anything to suggest that he's an unhelpful player. I think the question is given his age (22) and relatively limited career minutes, how much upside does he still have?

[Shumway]

Doper, what if we express it as 5,520 seconds? It looks like a more significant sample size if we display it like that.

[Leado01]

I do think if we stay pat Beasley is our 6th man scoring punch...and we've yet to see an 8 or 9 man rotation with Edwards/KAT/DLO/McD/Beasley/Reid/Juancho/Okogie and occasionally Vanderbilt .. .

I'm not saying we can't move Rubio/Juancho/Vandy etc. . . to potentially improve the 4 .... but it does appear we have the elements in place to actually develop some of these very good young players we have under a coach that seems to understand how to utilize his assets.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I do think if we stay pat Beasley is our 6th man scoring punch...and we've yet to see an 8 or 9 man rotation with Edwards/KAT/DLO/McD/Beasley/Reid/Juancho/Okogie and occasionally Vanderbilt .. .

I'm not saying we can't move Rubio/Juancho/Vandy etc. . . to potentially improve the 4 .... but it does appear we have the elements in place to actually develop some of these very good young players we have under a coach that seems to understand how to utilize his assets.

And that group I could see winning 38 - 42 games assuming zero improvement from last year in skills/development/chemistry, but just staying healthy (big if of course). I say that based on how they played when they were mostly healthy, which ended up being around .500 ball.

The question is how much do we really think Edwards, McDaniels, and Reid improve? Next to good health, the answer to this question is paramount to Rosas' offseason plans. If he's really bullish on these guys and feels he can get even more from them next season, he may in fact stay mostly pat.

[thedoper]

I do think if we stay pat Beasley is our 6th man scoring punch...and we've yet to see an 8 or 9 man rotation with Edwards/KAT/DLO/McD/Beasley/Reid/Juancho/Okogie and occasionally Vanderbilt .. .

I'm not saying we can't move Rubio/Juancho/Vandy etc. . . to potentially improve the 4 .... but it does appear we have the elements in place to actually develop some of these very good young players we have under a coach that seems to understand how to utilize his assets.

And that group I could see winning 38 - 42 games assuming zero improvement from last year in skills/development/chemistry, but just staying healthy (big if of course). I say that based on how they played when they were mostly healthy, which ended up being around .500 ball.

The question is how much do we really think Edwards, McDaniels, and Reid improve? Next to good health, the answer to this question is paramount to Rosas' offseason plans. If he's really bullish on these guys and feels he can get even more from them next season, he may in fact stay mostly pat.

I wonder if there are any outliers that think this is a way above .500 team with the current roster? I think your assessment of the current roster is accurate, if all things go well we are a .500 team. If Ant and McDaniels are long term stars we bump up from there.

Radical trades or marginal trades seem to be the route to us even having a hope of being a legit playoff team this year. I dont know if theyre out there. I could see a situation where a glue vet guy could come in and make this team's chemistry finally gel, I just dont know who that player is.

I remember when Chris Paul was "untradable". Now it seems so logical why you would want him even at his price. The NBA is insane.