Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

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FNG
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by FNG »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:After watching the playoffs this year, do you really think we can do any post season damage with a player like DLO? I can't see it. Plus the head idiot (Rosas) is the last link in the block chain.


There are things I like about DLO's game, and he kind of grew on me after he returned from his injury. But I couldn't agree more that we're not going anywhere as long as he is taking up $30+ million of cap space. I saw defense and efficient scoring rewarded in the playoffs, and DLO sadly provides neither.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

I do wonder how DLO would do under the bright lights of a playoff series. Would he show the same lazy tendencies and carefree attitude about defense? He certainly seemed to make a better effort in the final third last season, although he was by no means good. But he wasn't the abject liability we had seen earlier in the season either.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Sundog60 wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:After watching the playoffs this year, do you really think we can do any post season damage with a player like DLO? I can't see it. Plus the head idiot (Rosas) is the last link in the block chain.


I came away with the opposite impression, that DLo's offensive game could flourish in the playoffs. He can work in small spaces to get midrange opportunities, he doesn't shy away from the big shot in the big moment, he can get his guys the ball where they want it.

The huge concern is his defense, the importance of which is magnified in the playoffs. If that's what you're referring to, I'm with you.[


Yes, that's the point. In the playoffs teams will find DLO so fast on defense, and then keep exposing him. He will be a liability.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

I've been quiet all year about this, but it's time to make a statement. I'm constantly reading articles and listening to the NBA network. The summation of all the things I've heard or read tells me the Warriors wouldn't trade Wiggins back for DLO even up. And now they are going to take that #7 pick and probably package it with Wiseman and #14 and land a star veteran to make them a contender next year. Like it or not, they were very happy with Wiggins last year and see him as a very good 2-way player in the league. They really like his defense.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Lipoli390 »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I've been quiet all year about this, but it's time to make a statement. I'm constantly reading articles and listening to the NBA network. The summation of all the things I've heard or read tells me the Warriors wouldn't trade Wiggins back for DLO even up. And now they are going to take that #7 pick and probably package it with Wiseman and #14 and land a star veteran to make them a contender next year. Like it or not, they were very happy with Wiggins last year and see him as a very good 2-way player in the league. They really like his defense.


Cool - I've always thought the Warriors would have been content to get Wiggins for DLO straight up or perhaps in conjunction with a 2nd round pick. It was obvious that they were anxious to unload DLO and I doubt there were other teams banging on their door to get him - a poor defender and inefficient scorer with a max contract who was with his 3rd team in his first 5 seasons. I disliked the DLO deal more than I disliked DLO as a player. In my view, Rosas was fleeced. Gersson is a checkers player who decided to play chess with a chess master and it didn't end well for Gersson.

Nevertheless, we needed to move on from Wiggins. Moreover, I think Wiggins will regress. I always come back to KG's comment years ago to a former T-Wolf player who I met fishing at a resort in northern MN. Commenting on Wiggins, KG said, "he has no heart." The problem is that I'm not sure how much more heart DLO has, noting how lazy and often gets, even on the offensive end. But I did like the way DLO played at the end of last season when he returned from his surgery. If it were up to me, I'd aggressively shop him this summer and see if he can be packaged to acquire someone like Myles Turner. But we all know it's highly unlikely that Rosas will do that.

You asked in another post whether we can do any post-season damage with DLO on the team. As a threshold point, I'd say that I believe we can at least make the post season with DLO as our PG. That's a start and would be an achievement for this team. My answer to your question about doing damage in the post season is maybe. It really depends on who surrounds him and how much and how fast they develop. If Ant emerges as the superstar he has the potential to be and McDaniels ends up the defensive stalwart and all-star caliber player he has the potential to be, then I can see this team doing some damage in the playoffs with DLO. If those two guys start coming close to their potential while in their rookie deals, then the Wolves have the luxury of carrying DLO's inflated max contract and still being successful. That's especially true if KAT can continue to defend the way he did last season, which wasn't great but was fairly solid. Unfortunately, having DLO here on a max deal isn't ideal and that's probably an understatement.

Then there's the opportunity cost associated with the DLO deal. If not for the DLO deal, we'd have the 7th and 36th picks in this year's draft along with Wiggins' contract to match salaries. We'd also the flexibility to trade our 2022 1st round pick. Right now, we have no draft picks this year and can't trade our 2022 1st-round pick. But we do have DLO and he's certainly a talented offensive player. He also has the size to be a decent defender at his position. We just have to hope that a light bulb turns on in his head and puts him back on the track he appeared to be in his one allstar season with the Nets. I'd be depressed if that hope was all we had. But thankfully we have Ant and McDaniels. I was also happy with the development of Vanderbilt and Nowell last season. So I can still see this roster with only a minor tweak making the playoffs and perhaps even making a good show when their there.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Lipoli390 »

Here's a proposed DLO trade someone posted. Looks great to me, but there are two flaws. First, I still don't see Rosas trading DLO since he's really Gersson's prize acquisition. Second, i just don't see the Clippers doing that deal.

Los Angeles Clippers
Los Angeles Clippers Receive: G D'Angelo Russell
Minnesota Timberwolves Receive: F Marcus Morris Sr, G Patrick Beverley, G Terance Mann, LAC 2022 2nd Round Pick

If by chance the Clippers would do this deal, then Rosas should get the deal signed and approved before the Clipper front office execs sober up.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Lip, remember my main point regarding DLO is how ineffective he would be during the grind of a playoff series. I have no doubt he can make open jumpers just like he usually does. But teams will force us to switch him on to bigger or quicker players and he will get abused. You cant hide a guy against a good team who is going to find our weakness and exploit it. Imagine him trying to guard Chris Paul and then having to switch on to Booker, play after play. He can't get above screens to stay on his man. We better be able to score 130 points if he has to play big minutes.
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by kekgeek »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I've been quiet all year about this, but it's time to make a statement. I'm constantly reading articles and listening to the NBA network. The summation of all the things I've heard or read tells me the Warriors wouldn't trade Wiggins back for DLO even up. And now they are going to take that #7 pick and probably package it with Wiseman and #14 and land a star veteran to make them a contender next year. Like it or not, they were very happy with Wiggins last year and see him as a very good 2-way player in the league. They really like his defense.


Eh we'll see. Zach Lowe mentioned on his podcast this week that approximately 25 of the 30 NBA teams in the NBA still view Wiggins as a pretty big negative asset. Also we'll see if they actually land a star with that Wiggins. Wiseman, 7 and 14 package. Those same rumors were last year that they were getting a huge player with that Wiggins, #2, and the Wolves pick and it never happened (would say that trade package was better also).

Also Wiggins was the third fiddle with two HOFers and a guy who finished top 5 in MVP voting and Wiggins didn't make the playoffs.

Wiggins is a fine player but he was never blowing up in Minnesota. With that contract he is still a negative asset in the NBA. He does not suck but he still an overpriced player.
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

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I'm a total DLO hater. I've hammered three points since we got him: 1) no defense, 2) no leadership, 3) no toughness. Couldn't agree more we have a low ceiling with him. The worst part is those flaws are all echoed in KAT to some extent (more on that later).

I also hated Wiggins' contract. I was never really on board with Wiggins going back to when I broke down his summer league highlights with the Cavs and I noticed he never once dribbled the ball more than two or three times. I took heat for my criticism of Wiggins over the years (mostly his slow decision-making), and I've been wrong about plenty of things, but I said at the time we signed that extension that it was a huge mistake.

That trade was ultimately about dumping one highly overpaid player for another one who our best player was (and is) publicly clamoring to play with. Frankly, I was surprised it only took one first rounder to ship that contract out, and that was almost certainly because DLO was already viewed as an overpay as soon as the Warriors signed him. Wiggins looked much better last year, but he was never cut out to be a #2 guy and still isn't, although he's paid like it, which hamstrings your ability to build a team.

Let's put the DLO-Wiggins thing to bed though. It's not even so much about Rosas. I think the deeper issue here is actually about KAT.

Bottom line, we have DLO now because KAT wants him here. I'd love to move him because I totally agree we have a low ceiling with those three problems: 1) no defense, 2) no leadership, 3) no toughness, all of which KAT shares to some degree as well. If you listen to KAT talk about DLO though, the writing's on the wall--move DLO and you may as well start looking for KAT trades. Truthfully speaking, trading both is probably the most safe way for us to get back to relevance one day (relatively) soon (like 3 or 4 years, as opposed to another 6-8-?), but it's so unfathomable to consider trading away the second-best player in your franchise's history. The problem is, KAT needs certain things around him--defense, leadership, toughness--and yet the guy he almost insists on playing with doesn't bring them. At the end of the day, that's the fundamental problem. Our best player isn't self-aware enough to know what his weaknesses are and humble enough to work on them or play with someone who will.

Jimmy's behavior was over the top, but KAT needs someone like him (or, in an alternate universe, a guy like CP3), and instead KAT's bonded with someone on the opposite end of the spectrum. I really hope I'm wrong and we can turn things around in the next year, but I suspect that's the key problem with this team in this era--I think our best player may not be self-aware or humble enough to want teammates that complement his weaknesses. It feels like he's chosen playing with his friend over holding himself accountable.
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Re: Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I've been quiet all year about this, but it's time to make a statement. I'm constantly reading articles and listening to the NBA network. The summation of all the things I've heard or read tells me the Warriors wouldn't trade Wiggins back for DLO even up. And now they are going to take that #7 pick and probably package it with Wiseman and #14 and land a star veteran to make them a contender next year. Like it or not, they were very happy with Wiggins last year and see him as a very good 2-way player in the league. They really like his defense.


I think DLO is a more problematic fit for them when their starting backcourt are their two best players - Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. Wiggins can play the Harrison Barnes role of average-ish wing that will probably be just fine with really good guard play.
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I'm a total DLO hater. I've hammered three points since we got him: 1) no defense, 2) no leadership, 3) no toughness. Couldn't agree more we have a low ceiling with him. The worst part is those flaws are all echoed in KAT to some extent (more on that later).

I also hated Wiggins' contract. I was never really on board with Wiggins going back to when I broke down his summer league highlights with the Cavs and I noticed he never once dribbled the ball more than two or three times. I took heat for my criticism of Wiggins over the years (mostly his slow decision-making), and I've been wrong about plenty of things, but I said at the time we signed that extension that it was a huge mistake.

That trade was ultimately about dumping one highly overpaid player for another one who our best player was (and is) publicly clamoring to play with. Frankly, I was surprised it only took one first rounder to ship that contract out, and that was almost certainly because DLO was already viewed as an overpay as soon as the Warriors signed him. Wiggins looked much better last year, but he was never cut out to be a #2 guy and still isn't, although he's paid like it, which hamstrings your ability to build a team.

Let's put the DLO-Wiggins thing to bed though. It's not even so much about Rosas. I think the deeper issue here is actually about KAT.

Bottom line, we have DLO now because KAT wants him here. I'd love to move him because I totally agree we have a low ceiling with those three problems: 1) no defense, 2) no leadership, 3) no toughness, all of which KAT shares to some degree as well. If you listen to KAT talk about DLO though, the writing's on the wall--move DLO and you may as well start looking for KAT trades. Truthfully speaking, trading both is probably the most safe way for us to get back to relevance one day (relatively) soon (like 3 or 4 years, as opposed to another 6-8-?), but it's so unfathomable to consider trading away the second-best player in your franchise's history. The problem is, KAT needs certain things around him--defense, leadership, toughness--and yet the guy he almost insists on playing with doesn't bring them. At the end of the day, that's the fundamental problem. Our best player isn't self-aware enough to know what his weaknesses are and humble enough to work on them or play with someone who will.

Jimmy's behavior was over the top, but KAT needs someone like him (or, in an alternate universe, a guy like CP3), and instead KAT's bonded with someone on the opposite end of the spectrum. I really hope I'm wrong and we can turn things around in the next year, but I suspect that's the key problem with this team in this era--I think our best player may not be self-aware or humble enough to want teammates that complement his weaknesses. It feels like he's chosen playing with his friend over holding himself accountable.


Hard to disagree with this. Realistically though, Rosas is going to want to roll with KAT and DLO for at least another season. Now if Edwards continues to blow up while the team continues to struggle, I could see a shift in mindset to build around Edwards and make HIM your franchise pillar. The interesting thing is that KAT and DLO are very complimentary to Edwards on the offensive side of the ball. It's defense and toughness, as you say, where building this team around that trio starts to break down.
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