Wolves Trade Speculation and Ideas

[Lipoli390]

I'm about to discuss the Rubio-Prince trade. So why discuss it in this thread you may ask? Because this isn't about whether the deal for Prince was a good one for the Wolves. I think there are ample arguments on both sides of that debate. What I find most interesting is that the Wolves came way with Prince instead of Larry Nance Jr. even though Rosas has been clear that the team's top priority is acquiring a defensive big - which Nance is and Prince is not. Monster might say (actually did say) that the idea of getting Nance for Ricky is "laughable." I disagree. It's been reported multiple times by highly reliable reporters that the Cavs have been shopping Nance. And it's clear that the Cavs valued Rubio, which isn't surprising given how he's currently performing in the Olympics and how well he's played the last several years with the exception of the first half of last season.

I think the Wolves could have acquired Nance in exchange for Rubio. The difference, in my view, is that the Wolves would not have received a 2nd-round pick in return and probably would have had to include one or two future 2nd round picks as part of the outgoing package with Ricky. That leads me to my conclusion that the Prince deal was intended primarily to set up a future, more consequential deal for someone more impactful than Nance. I think the Prince deal helps set up a bigger deal in the following ways:

1. It provides with Wolves with another 2nd-round pick to add to a trade package for an impactful big. The fact that it's the Wizards' pick is noteworthy in this regard because that means it's likely to be fairly high in the 2nd round. Had the Wolves received Nance instead of Prince, the Wolves would not have received that 2nd-round pick and likely would have lost one of their own. With the Prince trade, the Wolves now have three 2nd-round picks next year - their own, Philly's or Denvers (better of the two), and now the Wizards.

2. Prince gives the Wolves a backstop replacement for McDaniels in the event the Wolves are forced to include McDaniels in an outgoing package.

We all know the Wolves won't include KAT or Ant in any trade package for another big. Knowing Rosas, he won't include DLO either. Excluding those three, and with Ricky now gone, the current Wolves' players with significant trade value are Beasley, McDaniels and Naz Reid. I think Layman and Culver have marginally positive trade value as well. The Wolves also have three 2nd round picks next year - two of them likely to be fairly high in that round - along with their 2023 1st and 2nd round picks to package in a deal. So I think the Wolves are set up fairly well to obtain an impactful big via trade yet this summer. And the Wolves are better positioned for such a deal after trading for Prince than they would have been if they had packaged Ricky in a deal for Nance.

Note: Monster, I assume you are laughing hysterically now at my notion that we could have dealt Ricky for Nance. :)

[Monster]

I'm about to discuss the Rubio-Prince trade. So why discuss it in this thread you may ask? Because this isn't about whether the deal for Prince was a good one for the Wolves. I think there are ample arguments on both sides of that debate. What I find most interesting is that the Wolves came way with Prince instead of Larry Nance Jr. even though Rosas has been clear that the team's top priority is acquiring a defensive big - which Nance is and Prince is not. Monster might say (actually did say) that the idea of getting Nance for Ricky is "laughable." I disagree. It's been reported multiple times by highly reliable reporters that the Cavs have been shopping Nance. And it's clear that the Cavs valued Rubio, which isn't surprising given how he's currently performing in the Olympics and how well he's played the last several years with the exception of the first half of last season.

I think the Wolves could have acquired Nance in exchange for Rubio. The difference, in my view, is that the Wolves would not have received a 2nd-round pick in return and probably would have had to include one or two future 2nd round picks as part of the outgoing package with Ricky. That leads me to my conclusion that the Prince deal was intended primarily to set up a future, more consequential deal for someone more impactful than Nance. I think the Prince deal helps set up a bigger deal in the following ways:

1. It provides with Wolves with another 2nd-round pick to add to a trade package for an impactful big. The fact that it's the Wizards' pick is noteworthy in this regard because that means it's likely to be fairly high in the 2nd round. Had the Wolves received Nance instead of Prince, the Wolves would not have received that 2nd-round pick and likely would have lost one of their own. With the Prince trade, the Wolves now have three 2nd-round picks next year - their own, Philly's or Denvers (better of the two), and now the Wizards.

2. Prince gives the Wolves a backstop replacement for McDaniels in the event the Wolves are forced to include McDaniels in an outgoing package.

We all know the Wolves won't include KAT or Ant in any trade package for another big. Knowing Rosas, he won't include DLO either. Excluding those three, and with Ricky now gone, the current Wolves' players with significant trade value are Beasley, McDaniels and Naz Reid. I think Layman and Culver have marginally positive trade value as well. The Wolves also have three 2nd round picks next year - two of them likely to be fairly high in that round - along with their 2023 1st and 2nd round picks to package in a deal. So I think the Wolves are set up fairly well to obtain an impactful big via trade yet this summer. And the Wolves are better positioned for such a deal after trading for Prince than they would have been if they had packaged Ricky in a deal for Nance.

Note: Monster, I assume you are laughing hysterically now at my notion that we could have dealt Ricky for Nance. :)

Lip thanks for the AB workout from the hilarity of your post! Now I can sit around and do nothing the rest of the day! :)

The only way we will find out about his value is when the Cavs end up finally dealing Nance which I think we agree will happen eventually. The reality is that the price for worthwhile PF has been high and what adds to Nance's value is that he is signed for 2 more years for just over 20 million. I think Nance is going to cost a team a first round pick plus another asset like a 2nd rounder. I don't think the Wolves wanted to pay the price for Nance that the Cavs were asking. Honestly if the Cavs were willing to do a straight up deal for Rubio Nance probably would have been playing on the Wolves last season.

What your post does bring up is that the Prince deal does add some value to add in a deal for a PF. It would be interesting to know what value around the league Kuzma and Harrell have and if the Wizards are open to dealing them. I know you aren't a fan of adding Kuzma but I'd take a shot at him if I wasn't giving up much to do it. My guess that the price (assets) for both of those guys would be more than I would want to pay but I would certainly be giving the Wizards a call. Lol What we have to remember is we don't know what teams are wanting. Who thought: Cavs yes they are going to want Ricky Rubio. Once the rationale was explained it does make sense (also sexton might be moved) but I didn't see that coming. Pelicans wanted caps space and so did Detroit in their deals. Maybe Rosas has that 2nd round pick to add to a package that some team wants. Let's say the Wolves traded both Juancho and Layman in a deal for a true center. Suddenly adding Prince in the previous deal would make a lot of sense as a combo 3/4 even as depth. It's probably time to sit back and wait to see what happens because maybe there is another deal out there I didn't really see coming.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The other thing Rosas mentioned is that the PF solution might be on the current roster, which I think means Reid or Vanderbilt. I think he doesn't want to count on that, so his goal will be to trade or sign someone, but at the end of the day those deals may not work out and we could just end up using part of the cap flexibility to re-sign Vanderbilt and a vet backup PG. That may be the full extent of our offseason moves!

Just because there is an intent and desire to do deals doesn't mean it will end up happening!

[Coolbreeze44]

The Wolves made overtures to try and trade into the first round. But according to Rosas including McDaniels was a no go or non starter. This is very, very good news.

[KiwiMatt]

The other thing Rosas mentioned is that the PF solution might be on the current roster, which I think means Reid or Vanderbilt. I think he doesn't want to count on that, so his goal will be to trade or sign someone, but at the end of the day those deals may not work out and we could just end up using part of the cap flexibility to re-sign Vanderbilt and a vet backup PG. That may be the full extent of our offseason moves!

Just because there is an intent and desire to do deals doesn't mean it will end up happening!

Let's hope he's not thinking Hernangomez!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The other thing Rosas mentioned is that the PF solution might be on the current roster, which I think means Reid or Vanderbilt. I think he doesn't want to count on that, so his goal will be to trade or sign someone, but at the end of the day those deals may not work out and we could just end up using part of the cap flexibility to re-sign Vanderbilt and a vet backup PG. That may be the full extent of our offseason moves!

Just because there is an intent and desire to do deals doesn't mean it will end up happening!

Let's hope he's not thinking Hernangomez!

Ha! I don't think so. He was pretty clear in his presser that defense and rebounding were a couple of key needs. Juancho isn't a bad rebounder but boy, he is pretty helpless defensively!

[Lipoli390]

I'll lay out my thinking when it comes to the Wolves pursuit of what Rosas referred to as an impact defensive, rebounding big:

1. Keep McDaniels. That's my starting point for any potential deals. I don't know whether the Wolves have him on their no-trade list along with KAT and Ant (maybe DLO), but I would definitely have him on my no-trade list.

2. Re-sign Vanderbilt. He won't cost much and he could be the solution from within as Q points out. At a minimum, he provides depth and energy off the bench at a position of need. And he provides much-needed continuity as a player who's already here and accustomed to playing with KAT and the others.

3. Limit targeted bigs to those who are really good defenders and don't compromise defense based on a player's ability to stretch the floor. In other words, keep your eye on the ball - focused on the priority need you're trying to fill. We already have the best 3-point shooting big in the League. In my view, that means excluding players like Markkanen and Kelly Olynyk among others from the list - although Olynyk was a really good rebounder last season and isn't a terrible defender.

4. LImit targeted bigs to players under age 35. That might seem a bit arbitrary, but when you look back at NBA bigs you'll see that most of them have a major drop-off between age 34 and 37. That's a risk factor that argues against giving up assets or making a significant financial commitment to any bigs in that age range. In my view, that means excluding players like PJ Tucker, Paul Millsap, and Dwight Howard.

5. Place emphasis on size and rim protection in comparing otherwise good defensive bigs. In my view, this factor would put the 6'8: JayMychal Green and Daniel Theis further down on the list, but not exclude them from consideration. It would favor players like Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Nerlens Noel, Alex Len, J. Hartenstein and Tony Bradley.

6. Be realistic. I really like Richaun Holmes. But the Wolves don't have anything close to the cap room to sign him. A sign-and-trade with the Wolves is highly unlikely. Holmes is the Kings' only good big. Moreover, Holmes has indicated that he wants to stay with Sacramento while the Kings front office has publicly indicated their desire to keep him. and, based on public comments of both the Kings front office and Holmes. Capela, on the other hand, might be gettable if they are intent or re-signing Collins. But we'd probably have to give up Naz Reid in the deal to get him.

7. Don't overpay. This means two things to me. First, don't part with too many valuable assets and make sure the assets you give up are commensurate with the value of the player you're getting. Second, don't take on another max contract. The big we're seeking is expected to be complementary player next to KAT. He shouldn't be a max player unless we trade our second max player, DLO, as part of the deal to get him. The deal for Russell was an overpay in two ways: too much included in the package to get him and a max contract for a player who had never earned one. This excludes John Collins who is likely to command a max contract from someone in free agency or via sign-and-trade.

Based on these seven parameters, my two prime trade targets would be Capela and Turner in that order of preference. Getting either one would likely require the Wolves to give up Beasley along with other assets. I think it would take more to get Capela than Turner. Otherwise, I'd focus on the following list of free agents:

- Alex Len
- Hartenstein
- Tony Bradley
- Nerlens Noel
- Daniel Theis
- Kelly Olynyk
- JaMychal Green

Some of them are probably gettable as free agents with the approximately $6.3M we'll have to spend under the luxury tax (assuming Bolmaro and Vanderbilt sign). Others might require some sort of relatively minor sign-and-trade. Hartenstein and Bradly aren't the more experienced vets Rosas is likely looking for, but they're both talented and have already established themselves as capable defensive bigs. Noel is the best rim-protector on the list. Alex Len is probably the strongest and would give us a Steven Adams type, only better offensively. Theis is a terrific defender, pretty mobile and tough. I haven't looked up Olynyk's defensive stats, but I think he's become a decent defender. I like his length.

[Tactical unit]

I'll lay out my thinking when it comes to the Wolves pursuit of what Rosas referred to as an impact defensive, rebounding big:

1. Keep McDaniels. That's my starting point for any potential deals. I don't know whether the Wolves have him on their no-trade list along with KAT and Ant (maybe DLO), but I would definitely have him on my no-trade list.

2. Re-sign Vanderbilt. He won't cost much and he could be the solution from within as Q points out. At a minimum, he provides depth and energy off the bench at a position of need. And he provides much-needed continuity as a player who's already here and accustomed to playing with KAT and the others.

3. Limit targeted bigs to those who are really good defenders and don't compromise defense based on a player's ability to stretch the floor. In other words, keep your eye on the ball - focused on the priority need you're trying to fill. We already have the best 3-point shooting big in the League. In my view, that means excluding players like Markkanen and Kelly Olynyk among others from the list - although Olynyk was a really good rebounder last season and isn't a terrible defender.

4. LImit targeted bigs to players under age 35. That might seem a bit arbitrary, but when you look back at NBA bigs you'll see that most of them have a major drop-off between age 34 and 37. That's a risk factor that argues against giving up assets or making a significant financial commitment to any bigs in that age range. In my view, that means excluding players like PJ Tucker, Paul Millsap, and Dwight Howard.

5. Place emphasis on size and rim protection in comparing otherwise good defensive bigs. In my view, this factor would put the 6'8: JayMychal Green and Daniel Theis further down on the list, but not exclude them from consideration. It would favor players like Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Nerlens Noel, Alex Len, J. Hartenstein and Tony Bradley.

6. Be realistic. I really like Richaun Holmes. But the Wolves don't have anything close to the cap room to sign him. A sign-and-trade with the Wolves is highly unlikely. Holmes is the Kings' only good big. Moreover, Holmes has indicated that he wants to stay with Sacramento while the Kings front office has publicly indicated their desire to keep him. and, based on public comments of both the Kings front office and Holmes. Capela, on the other hand, might be gettable if they are intent or re-signing Collins. But we'd probably have to give up Naz Reid in the deal to get him.

7. Don't overpay. This means two things to me. First, don't part with too many valuable assets and make sure the assets you give up are commensurate with the value of the player you're getting. Second, don't take on another max contract. The big we're seeking is expected to be complementary player next to KAT. He shouldn't be a max player unless we trade our second max player, DLO, as part of the deal to get him. The deal for Russell was an overpay in two ways: too much included in the package to get him and a max contract for a player who had never earned one. This excludes John Collins who is likely to command a max contract from someone in free agency or via sign-and-trade.

Based on these seven parameters, my two prime trade targets would be Capela and Turner in that order of preference. Getting either one would likely require the Wolves to give up Beasley along with other assets. I think it would take more to get Capela than Turner. Otherwise, I'd focus on the following list of free agents:

- Alex Len
- Hartenstein
- Tony Bradley
- Nerlens Noel
- Daniel Theis
- Kelly Olynyk
- JaMychal Green

Some of them are probably gettable as free agents with the approximately $6.3M we'll have to spend under the luxury tax (assuming Bolmaro and Vanderbilt sign). Others might require some sort of relatively minor sign-and-trade. Hartenstein and Bradly aren't the more experienced vets Rosas is likely looking for, but they're both talented and have already established themselves as capable defensive bigs. Noel is the best rim-protector on the list. Alex Len is probably the strongest and would give us a Steven Adams type, only better offensively. Theis is a terrific defender, pretty mobile and tough. I haven't looked up Olynyk's defensive stats, but I think he's become a decent defender. I like his length.

Good set of parameters and Capela would fit well love his picks would be sweet for Ant to have a mean pick and lob target. Olynyk & Green are vets I think are both affordable and could produce. With Vanderbilt's age and grit I still can squint and see him developing into a nice player. I want him back and I think he wants to be back.

[Lipoli390]

Actually, if Vanderbilt ends up getting a salary equal to his qualifying offer and the Wolves withdraw JMac's qualifying offer, the Wolves will have about $5.7M to spend under the luxury tax, not $6.3. That might be just enough to sign most if not all the free agents in my above list. But I'm not sure about that. And then we'd be left with no backup PG and little or no luxury tax room to sign one.

In other words, there should be no doubt that the Wolves will make at least one trade this summer as part of adding the defensive big that Rosas was talking about. A deal for Capela or Turner would likely involve Beasley. Getting Capela would require Beasley plus other assets. The question is what the Wolves would need to give up in a sign-and-trade for any of the free agent bigs on my list or, perhaps, Bobby Portis. Any thoughts?

[Monster]

Actually, if Vanderbilt ends up getting a salary equal to his qualifying offer and the Wolves withdraw JMac's qualifying offer, the Wolves will have about $5.7M to spend under the luxury tax, not $6.3. That might be just enough to sign most if not all the free agents in my above list. But I'm not sure about that. And then we'd be left with no backup PG and little or no luxury tax room to sign one.

In other words, there should be no doubt that the Wolves will make at least one trade this summer as part of adding the defensive big that Rosas was talking about. A deal for Capela or Turner would likely involve Beasley. Getting Capela would require Beasley plus other assets. The question is what the Wolves would need to give up in a sign-and-trade for any of the free agent bigs on my list or, perhaps, Bobby Portis. Any thoughts?

Dallas got Moses Brown from Boston for Josh Richardson. I'd say Dallas is open for business as they have quite a few bigs and did before this trade. I'd guess WCS will either be traded or his option will be declined and he will be a FA. The Wolves could use their trade exception to acquire WCS but then they would have 16 contracts and not a lot of money left for Vanderbilt and stay under the tax. Maybe Dallas would want to clear more cap space and so a Juancho (or Culver) for Dwight Powell deal. Powell makes a decent chunk of money the following year so...that's a negative to that move. Kleeber would be really fantastic but I would think he would be the guy hardest to get because of his skill set and his contract seems reasonable. Dallas doesn't exactly have a lot of wings so maybe they would have some interest in taking a shot at Culver while saving some money and moving someone from a glut in the frontcourt.