monsterpile wrote:Let's not forget that earlier in his career Jokic was a guy that fouled out often and plenty of guys could get under his skin.
Right, and unlike KAT, he's since matured and continues to get better and better. There was no comparison between the two last night.
Personally I didn't think Towns was that bad in this game. In addition it's probably a little easier to mature when your team is actually good and having the same coach for a number of years etc etc. Jokic should get all the credit for stepping up his game and ironing out his issues which also includes getting his body in better shape.
Meanwhile Towns had some injury issues and also legit personal tragedy. It was days ago Towns went full bonkers basically losing it in a game. If Towns is going to take a step like Jokic did hits not going to happen overnight. I've liked some of the steps he has taken since then. Did he get bested by a better player in this game? Yes.
monsterpile wrote:Let's not forget that earlier in his career Jokic was a guy that fouled out often and plenty of guys could get under his skin.
Right, and unlike KAT, he's since matured and continues to get better and better. There was no comparison between the two last night.
Personally I didn't think Towns was that bad in this game. In addition it's probably a little easier to mature when your team is actually good and having the same coach for a number of years etc etc. Jokic should get all the credit for stepping up his game and ironing out his issues which also includes getting his body in better shape.
Meanwhile Towns had some injury issues and also legit personal tragedy. It was days ago Towns went full bonkers basically losing it in a game. If Towns is going to take a step like Jokic did hits not going to happen overnight. I've liked some of the steps he has taken since then. Did he get bested by a better player in this game? Yes.
Meh. I'm done making excuses for KAT. He's been in the league long enough now that I think what we see is what we get going forward - and that's still a really damn good player. Rather than wishing he becomes something he's not, my suggestion (and it's not a revolutionary one on this board) is to stop matching him up one on one with these behemoth Centers 100% of the game. Let someone else take some of that pressure off of him, especially in the 1st and 3rd quarters.
monsterpile wrote:Let's not forget that earlier in his career Jokic was a guy that fouled out often and plenty of guys could get under his skin.
Right, and unlike KAT, he's since matured and continues to get better and better. There was no comparison between the two last night.
Personally I didn't think Towns was that bad in this game. In addition it's probably a little easier to mature when your team is actually good and having the same coach for a number of years etc etc. Jokic should get all the credit for stepping up his game and ironing out his issues which also includes getting his body in better shape.
Meanwhile Towns had some injury issues and also legit personal tragedy. It was days ago Towns went full bonkers basically losing it in a game. If Towns is going to take a step like Jokic did hits not going to happen overnight. I've liked some of the steps he has taken since then. Did he get bested by a better player in this game? Yes.
Meh. I'm done making excuses for KAT. He's been in the league long enough now that I think what we see is what we get going forward - and that's still a really damn good player. Rather than wishing he becomes something he's not, my suggestion (and it's not a revolutionary one on this board) is to stop matching him up one on one with these behemoth Centers 100% of the game. Let someone else take some of that pressure off of him, especially in the 1st and 3rd quarters.
I agree, Q. And I'm one of KAT's biggest boosters. He's a great player and our best player hands down. He remains a tremendous offensive player and he's definitely improved his defense significantly. He's playing well on both sides fo the ball so far this season. But he has one more step to take to become the player he can be. That step is a mental one. Call it mental resiliency or just playing smarter. Even after six seasons, I think he's capable of taking that next step as he did against the Bucks Wednesday night. We'll see. Otherwise, I agree with you that, at least for now, the Wolves should stop matching him up against the mammoth centers 100% of the time. The problem, of course, is that we don't have anyone else on the roster to go against those center. And that brings me back to my refrain that we need to add a big man to this roster. I like Cam's idea of trading for Robin Lopez even though I didn't like the specific trade he proposed. We can't get him until Dec. 14, but I'd have my sights set on him if I were Gupta and I'm thinking that Layman and Nowell should be enough to get him. I'd love to put Robin's 7"0, 280 pound frame and high energy on guys like Jokic for stretches during games.
I wouldn't give up Jaylen Nowell to get Robin Lopez, for what it's worth, but the guy is a huge body. He would have been awesome for 15-20 minutes last night just to bang into Nikola Jokic and make his life in the paint more difficult. We have to remember that Karl-Anthony Towns actually lost weight and he already had trouble banging with some of these bigger centers.
Q12543 wrote:I think KAT is just enormously frustrated (and probably jealous) of Jokic's success. They both came into the league at the same time and early on it appeared that KAT would be the better player. But instead, Jokic has grown into the best all-around big man in the game and probably one of the best three players in the league. He's that good.
The contrast between KAT and Jokic in the level of poise each played with was a microcosm of the contrast between the two teams as a whole. One played in a rushed, disconnected manner and the other played in a calm, clinical manner. The calm and clinical team won.
KAT's issues with Jokic might have something to do with some feelings of jealousy. He reacts the same way against Embiid. Whether jealousy is part of it or not, KAT just appears to play like he has something to prove and that's what takes him out of his game. I a sense, he doesn't seem to realize how good he is and then tries to do things he can't do well against players like Jokic and Embiid. I'd characterize it as a lack of confidence. KAT was doing just fine against Jokic in the 1st quarter when he continued to play within himself and with the calm focus he displayed in the Milwaukee game. But you could see Jokic talking and shoving, which eventually seemed to trip KAT's trigger. That's when the pre-Bucks game KAT returned and it didn't go well. Jokic is a great player, but I think Giannis is the best player in the game. It's interesting that Giannis did not trip KAT's trigger the way Jokic did last or the way Embiid always does. I actually think KAT is as talented as Jokic. KAT's problem is that he has a hard time staying out of his own head and being driving by childish feelings of inferiority and persecution. There's never been an issue with KAT's talent or his effort. He just has to play smarter.
Giannis didn't trigger KAT because they usually don't play the same position and aren't really linked to each other in the same way KAT is linked to a guys like Jokic and Embiid.
It's these very matchups against the likes of JoVal, Jokic, and Embiid that we need a true Center starting next to KAT and allow him to start games at PF. We've seen this for years now and nothing has changed. He gets out-muscled and outplayed by these bigger, stronger Centers every single time and he almost always loses his composure somewhere along the way. No amount of weightlifting or gorilla videos is going to change the outcome in these matchups for KAT.
FWIW Giannis played center in that game and was the most physically dominate player on the floor. He sent Towns flying at least once. Giannis doesn't get caught up in all that crap he just plays his ass off all the time. He isn't interested in playing mind games. He somehow plays like he has everything to prove and also like he has nothing to prove. It's partly why he is such a joy to watch.
I won't discredit any takes calling Towns out... they're often justified.
But what was he trying to do too much of tonight? It definitely wasn't shooting the ball. As Finch noted... 11 shot attempts isn't enough. Edwards, Russell and Beasley were a combined 3 - 15 fg in the 2nd quarter. The "most efficient" shooting big man in the league had zero attempts.
And just like that... Denver was back in the game. The end of the first half, specifically, was rough...
Up 6 with 42 seconds left and the ball. Perfect for a 2-for-1.
- Nope. After a series of bad shots and TOs, the Wolves were fortunate to only lose 2 on the scoreboard.
Disappointing finish, but Lip, it sounds like a fun night at TC with a lot of energy in the building. Your Vando observation is troubling and hopefully not his normal demeanor. He wasn't very good last night, but normally I like the chaos he (and JO, who was especially chaotic last night, brings to the court.
I agree with your comments about KAT. Last night was not a good night for him for the Jokic related reasons others have suggested. But normally he is going to put up huge numbers every night. That said, I agree that his ceiling is a very good #2 on a good team...his emotional makeup is not likely to ever allow him to be an effective leader and #1. I don't know that anyone here sees DLo as a viable #1 on a good team either, so we're in a position very few teams, if any are in...having two max players using up almost half the cap, neither of whom can be a #1 on a contender. More reason to hope that Ant can develop and become the man...we'll have to see because the jury is out right now.
Yeah, our starters were terrible last night, and I don't disagree with your assessment that DLo might have been our best. His defense was largely satisfactory last night and somewhat offset his poor 6-15 shooting. He did have that unfortunate moment late in the game where his lack of effort allowed Morris to blow by him for an uncontested layup. Finch was irate and immediately called a time out and was yelling at DLo (I didn't see it...the Denver color announcer pointed it out). It happened right in front of you, so I'm guessing you were treated to a little bit of Finch screaming! By the way, the Denver announcers are not DLo fans at all. When Finch subbed Beverley in for DLo in the 4th quarter, Scott Hastings said he thought that was bad news for the Nuggets because it was a better lineup for the Wolves. Sadly, I agree...I like this team a lot more when PatBev is running the point, and I think DLo is at his best when he is playing the 2 next to Pat. Pat's injury history aside, that's why I was so excited about a possible DLo/Simmons swap a couple months ago. Oh well.
On the bright side, we're 3-2 even after last night's loss. The schedulers have been kind to us as the 4 teams we have played are 9-15 and only Denver has a winning record. We should be 4-2 after our game with Orlando (Suggs' homecoming), but then our easy schedule disappears. I want to believe in this team and I do think a lot of the defensive improvement we have seen is sustainable, but as I look at the next few weeks, I see us 8-12 after 20 (assuming we stay healthy). My position hasn't changed. This is a fun team to watch, but any more than 35 wins is asking too much from this roster. I hope they can prove me wrong.
TheFuture wrote:Edwards cannot miss that bunny at the end of the game. That is the story.
He missed a bunch of bunnies before that, not to mention his poor 3-pt shooting. That game reminded me of his horribly inefficient start to last season as well. It took him a torrid second half of the season to climb back to respectability and his overall year still looked pretty inefficient overall. Let's hope that doesn't happen again this season! We can't have him missing 10-15 shots per game on a regular basis.
