Minnesota Timberwolves: Rumor Mill

[Lipoli390]

Disclaimer: The following NBA rumors are unverifiable and the source is questionable at best. Someone who appears to have been clued in at one point shared their notes and they were passed around on Twitter. I found them to be interesting, if nothing else.

- The following teams have shown interest in trading for Ben Simmons: Atlanta, Cleveland, Los Angeles (Lakers), Minnesota, Portland, Sacramento, and Toronto. Simmons wants out of Philadelphia and his market seems to be dying.

- Atlanta offered Cameron Reddish and Danilo Gallinari for Simmons. No draft picks were included in this offer. The source was told that Philadelphia considered this deal far from good enough. Philadelphia countered with an offer that included DeAndre Hunter, Onyeka Okongwu, Reddish and a pick. Atlanta declined and is prepared to roll with their current roster.

- Sacramento has been aggressively pursuing Simmons. The source says they offered Harrison Barnes, Tyrese Haliburton, and the No. 9 pick for Simmons on draft night. Philadelphia declined.

- Sacramento still has an offer on the table of Barnes, Haliburton, and a "lightly-protected" 2022 first-round pick for Simmons.

- Minnesota had the most asset-rich offer of Ricky Rubio, Jarrett Culver, "multiple lightly-protected first-round picks," and a pick swap for Simmons. Teams around the league felt this was by far the best offer for Simmons. Philadelphia declined and countered with the inclusion of Karl-Anthony Towns or Anthony Edwards as well as the addition of D'Angelo Russell instead of expiring contracts. Minnesota quickly declined.

- Cleveland offered Collin Sexton, Larry Nance Jr., Taurean Prince, and a "lightly-protected" 2022 first-round pick for Simmons. The source says that he was told that Philadelphia valued Sexton and Nance Jr., but required the No. 3 overall pick for starters and when that didn't happen they declined.

- Toronto offered Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and a protected 2022 first-round pick for Simmons. Philadelphia declined this offer.

- Portland was willing to trade anyone on the roster for Simmons besides Damian Lillard and Robert Covington. Philadelphia was unwilling to entertain any offer that didn't include Lillard. Portland had no interest in doing so unless Joel Embiid was made available. The two teams are very, very far apart.

- Los Angeles checked in with an offer that would have included Dennis Schroder in some sort of sign-and-trade. Philadelphia didn't have interest in that. The Lakers then proceeded to make the trade for Russell Westbrook.

- The source was told that Philadelphia is overplaying their hand and will end up with less than what New York got for Kristaps Porzingis when it's all said and done.

Interesting report.

Not surprising that the Wolves would make the best offer in the eyes to other teams. That's what Rosas does. :). The report says the Wolves offered "multiple lightly protected first-round picks," but doesn't indicate exactly how many. I'm guessing it was three picks plus a pick swap. Lightly protected probably means top 4 (or in the case of Rosas, based on precedent, top 3). Those picks plus Ricky and Culver would have been a reasonable deal for the Wolves, but not so good for a Sixers team seeking to win now. If it's true that Philly countered by insisting on DLO plus either KAT or Edwards, that's pretty silly. But it sounds like Morey.

I actually think the best deal for Philly was the Cavs offer of Sexton, Nance and Prince plus a lightly-protected 2022 first. If Morey turned down that deal, he made a big mistake in my view. I think the Kings offer was the 2nd-best. Haliburton and Barnes could help Philly right away and the number 9 pick would have been nice frosting. If Portland really offered anyone on their roster other than Lillard or Covington, that would seem like a nice offer for Simmons. I'm assuming McCollum would be part of the package from Portland.

I think Simmons will end up in Sacramento. Haliburton would be a nice fit at PG and Barnes provides nice depth. An alternative package would be Haliburton and Buddy.

[Wolvesfan21]

I want Simmons on this team but you do need to cater a roster around him and his strengths and deficiencies. On offense you need to surround him with shooters, the offense could be real bad if you trot out Okogie and Vandy with Simmons.

Then on defense if you want to make his impact matter you can't have real weak points otherwise teams will simply iso the weak player constantly (like we've seen with Steph Curry in the past). So his impact would be limited to the other players again.

Then he makes a lot of money, this is a big one that limits what Phili will ultimately get for him.

I want Simmons, but I understand the wariness of others who are concerned we would give up too much to get him. I say you get top talent then try and make the roster work afterwards.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I like Ben Simmons a lot. I also think he makes a great deal of sense for the Wolves as they're currently constructed. However, as soon as Minnesota has to start significantly changing the makeup of the team in order to acquire him, I'm hitting the pause button. For instance, Simmons fits in perfectly with Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, D'Angelo Russell, Jaden McDaniels, and Malik Beasley. But once you start pulling from that group the fit doesn't look as attractive to me. I think that's when more questions are asked than they are answered, at least right now.

If Gersson Rosas can achieve the unexpected by landing Simmons for two expirings and a handful of draft picks and draft swaps, then it's a slam dunk. Simmons slides into that four spot with ease and the Wolves move into one of the top seeds in the Western Conference. If Rosas has to pull the trigger on Option A in my other thread, then I think that's premature and perhaps overaggressive. If Rosas simply decides the asking price is too rich and walks away, then I can certainly respect that.

[Lipoli390]

The Nets have had a long flirtation with Hartenstein. They liked the 7-footer in the 2017 draft, and he dominated against their affiliate, Long Island, in the 2019 G-League Finals, when he was named MVP while playing for Rio Grande. A source told The Post the Nets were even interested in signing Hartenstein before the 2020 NBA bubble, but he was ineligible for the playoffs due to the date he'd been waived. - via Brian Lewis @ New York Post

The Nets are way over the cap and have no salary cap exceptions other than the vet minimum to offer Hartenstein. So I don't see him signing there. Yes, it would be his best chance at a ring, but it wouldn't be his best financial bet. The Wolves and others can pay him more. I want the Wolves to re-sign Vanderbilt. But I would really like to see the Wolves sign Hartenstein as well. To do that, they'd have to either keep Bolmaro in Europe another year or move Layman for a non-guaranteed contract or a minimum-salary player. We really need someone with his size on our roster. I also like his skill set and upside at age 23. But I just don't see it happening.

[thedoper]

I like Ben Simmons a lot. I also think he makes a great deal of sense for the Wolves as they're currently constructed. However, as soon as Minnesota has to start significantly changing the makeup of the team in order to acquire him, I'm hitting the pause button. For instance, Simmons fits in perfectly with Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, D'Angelo Russell, Jaden McDaniels, and Malik Beasley. But once you start pulling from that group the fit doesn't look as attractive to me. I think that's when more questions are asked than they are answered, at least right now.

If Gersson Rosas can achieve the unexpected by landing Simmons for two expirings and a handful of draft picks and draft swaps, then it's a slam dunk. Simmons slides into that four spot with ease and the Wolves move into one of the top seeds in the Western Conference. If Rosas has to pull the trigger on Option A in my other thread, then I think that's premature and perhaps overaggressive. If Rosas simply decides the asking price is too rich and walks away, then I can certainly respect that.

I agree 100%. Simmons is the power forward we are looking for. Not a PG to replace Russell in terms of pure team building. I just dont think we could get it done without at the very least offering Jaden. If thats the case I think an argument could be made either way. I would personally still do it, but respect the basketball minds that think Jaden could be special.

[Monster]

The Nets have had a long flirtation with Hartenstein. They liked the 7-footer in the 2017 draft, and he dominated against their affiliate, Long Island, in the 2019 G-League Finals, when he was named MVP while playing for Rio Grande. A source told The Post the Nets were even interested in signing Hartenstein before the 2020 NBA bubble, but he was ineligible for the playoffs due to the date he'd been waived. - via Brian Lewis @ New York Post

The Nets are way over the cap and have no salary cap exceptions other than the vet minimum to offer Hartenstein. So I don't see him signing there. Yes, it would be his best chance at a ring, but it wouldn't be his best financial bet. The Wolves and others can pay him more. I want the Wolves to re-sign Vanderbilt. But I would really like to see the Wolves sign Hartenstein as well. To do that, they'd have to either keep Bolmaro in Europe another year or move Layman for a non-guaranteed contract or a minimum-salary player. We really need someone with his size on our roster. I also like his skill set and upside at age 23. But I just don't see it happening.

Interesting info Lip. You mentioned this might be his best chance to get a ring. It's possible he is the starting center for a contender. That has value. Players make more money the more playoff games they play. In addition if he signs for Just one year we have seen guys get paid based on playoff performance. Let's say his best offer is 3 million from one team and the nets only offer the vet min. Could he possibly make up a chunk of that difference just in likely playoff game checks? Possibly.

Meanwhile the Wolves even though they don't have a starting spot open they do have 2 players Hartenstein would have to battle for minutes in Reid and Vanderbilt (assuming he is resigned). If the Wolbes had really gone hard after Hartenstein early in the process maybe he would feel like this is a good spot but there is a scenario where he signs here and ends up basically just being the 3rd center behind Naz.

[Monster]

Thanks Cam for posting.

Some of those offers seem to be getting into the ballpark. If the Sixers were a rebuilding team then maybe they would have been interested in the Wolves offer but my guess is they would want some more immediate help than just Rubio. They could use the draft picks to get players I suppose but that's not certain.

I thought it was most interesting that the Wolves offered future assets and not any of the young players currently on the roster. That was a key detail to me. I wonder if we'll see Minnesota offer Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, multiple first-round picks and some pick swaps after about 60 days from yesterday. That looks like the structure of a deal that Gersson Rosas is putting together. Financially, those two salaries work in a trade for Ben Simmons. Beverley is technically a win now player albeit one with limited value. Prince's value may rise a bit, but he's essentially an expiring deal. And then Minnesota has control of all of their future first-round picks.

I think one way or another the Sixers would need to get something back that helps them more now. That might mean they add a player from another team in a 3 way deal for one or more of the Wolves picks. Judging using the players team above offered for Simmons what would Atlanta need to have to move Gallo? One 1st and an expiring like Prince? I highly doubt that basically Gallo Beverly and some decent firsts are gonna get the Sixers excited about dealing Simmons but it's interesting to think about.

I know the Wolves need shooting if the acquire Simmons but I would consider moving Beasley (likely to another team) to make it happen. If so it would be good to be able to keep Prince to help offset the loss of Beasley at least this season.

Also it may be worth noting that the Sixers have George Hill signed for the vet min and to some extent he is a similar player to Beverly in that he is a solid complimentary guard. Beverly brings more aggressive defense and Hill has a little more juice as an offensive player but I think you get what I am saying. My guess is that the Sixers would not turn down Beverly in a package and having both Hill and Beverly would help offset the real possibility that one of them would be hurt.

Monster, George Hill signed with Milwaukee.

Thanks for the correction Cool. I made a mistake seeing Hill's salary on the Sixers cap for this year. it must be a waive and stretch amount. This changes everything the Wolves are gonna get Simmons now!!! :)

[Lipoli390]

Thinking some more about the Simmons trade rumors that Cam shared. The more I reflect, the more those rumors ring true. That's a lot of stuff to just make up. The various rumored trades all align pretty well. Those rumors find further support in the fact that Simmons hasn't been dealt yet.

Morey is obviously holding out for a star player in return. That's something we've heard from reliable NBA reporters. Morey clear and understandably covets Lillard, who would be a perfect fit for Embiid. He'd likely have to give up more than Simmons to get him and, thus far, it appears that neither Portland nor Lillard is interested in such a trade. Beal is another star-caliber player Morey has apparently and understandably targeted in a Simmons deal. But it looks like the Wizards and Beal want to give it another try together this upcoming season. So I'm not surprised that Morey would insist on getting KAT or Edwards in return for Simmons and that's something the Rosas shouldn't entertain.

The market has apparently spoken and it has set Simmons' value considerably lower than Morey was expecting or seeking. If the rumors Cam posted are largely true, then I think the market price for Simmons puts him within reach for the Wolves. And I think that market value opens the door to a deal build around DLO or Beasley. If I were Rosas, as my bottom line I would exclude KAT, Edwards and McDaniels from any deal. I'd be willing to trade DLO or Beasley, but not both. And I'd be willing to trade one future top-4 protected first round pick along with one or two future 2nd-round picks. I think the most sensible deal for both sides would be a deal build around DLO based on player value and salary match. The following hypothetical scenario is one that I would consider reasonable:

- Wolves Get: Simmons
- Sixers Get: (a) DLO; (b) Layman or Okogie; (c) the Wolves 2023 1st (top-4 protected); (d) Naz Reid; and (e) Sixers 2022 2nd returned

The Wolves would have a defensive PG to match up with their offensive-oriented core of KAT, Edwards and Beasley. The Would would also get an additional $2.7M in luxury tax room they could use to sign Hartenstein or Millsap while still signing Vanderbilt and J-Mac.

The Sixers would get a former all-star PG who is a big shot market and perimeter threat to pair with Embiid, more depth in Layman or Okogie, a very talented, high-upside center in Naz Reid and a valuable lightly-protected 2023 1st round pick.

If this wouldn't be good enough for the Sixers then so be it.

[Coolbreeze44]

Lip, I'd give up DLO and Beasley plus a future lightly protected 1st in a heartbeat for Simmons. Not going to happen though, the buck stopped at Rosas as far as dealing for DLO.

[Monster]

Thinking some more about the Simmons trade rumors that Cam shared. The more I reflect, the more those rumors ring true. That's a lot of stuff to just make up. The various rumored trades all align pretty well. Those rumors find further support in the fact that Simmons hasn't been dealt yet.

Morey is obviously holding out for a star player in return. That's something we've heard from reliable NBA reporters. Morey clear and understandably covets Lillard, who would be a perfect fit for Embiid. He'd likely have to give up more than Simmons to get him and, thus far, it appears that neither Portland nor Lillard is interested in such a trade. Beal is another star-caliber player Morey has apparently and understandably targeted in a Simmons deal. But it looks like the Wizards and Beal want to give it another try together this upcoming season. So I'm not surprised that Morey would insist on getting KAT or Edwards in return for Simmons and that's something the Rosas shouldn't entertain.

The market has apparently spoken and it has set Simmons' value considerably lower than Morey was expecting or seeking. If the rumors Cam posted are largely true, then I think the market price for Simmons puts him within reach for the Wolves. And I think that market value opens the door to a deal build around DLO or Beasley. If I were Rosas, as my bottom line I would exclude KAT, Edwards and McDaniels from any deal. I'd be willing to trade DLO or Beasley, but not both. And I'd be willing to trade one future top-4 protected first round pick along with one or two future 2nd-round picks. I think the most sensible deal for both sides would be a deal build around DLO based on player value and salary match. The following hypothetical scenario is one that I would consider reasonable:

- Wolves Get: Simmons
- Sixers Get: (a) DLO; (b) Layman or Okogie; (c) the Wolves 2023 1st (top-4 protected); (d) Naz Reid; and (e) Sixers 2022 2nd returned

The Wolves would have a defensive PG to match up with their offensive-oriented core of KAT, Edwards and Beasley. The Would would also get an additional $2.7M in luxury tax room they could use to sign Hartenstein or Millsap while still signing Vanderbilt and J-Mac.

The Sixers would get a former all-star PG who is a big shot market and perimeter threat to pair with Embiid, more depth in Layman or Okogie, a very talented, high-upside center in Naz Reid and a valuable lightly-protected 2023 1st round pick.

If this wouldn't be good enough for the Sixers then so be it.

It's worth noting that the Sixers only have like 1 open roster spot and I read they are planning to sign their 2nd round pick Charles Bassey to an NBA deal. How much to the value everyone that's on a guaranteed contract? No idea but everyone I don't know about is on a cheap contract which may be vakueable to a team like the Sixers who need cheap players.

Question: If the Wolves did trade for Simmons would you (or others here) consider adding Vanderbilt as an asset in that trade in a sign and trade or would you prefer to keep him? Sixers do have a trade exception if they valued Vanderbilt. That would be a technically separate transaction for the sign and trade but teams do trades like that to make things work. I'd like to keep Vanderbilt but if we got Simmons and he was some sort of solid asset in making the trade happen then I would be cool pulling the trigger.